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  1. #21
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    To add to Tripletts reply:

    On an apples with apples basis.

    Your current monthly consumption of about R 1000 equates to about 500 units per month or 17 units daily.

    In general for South Africa, a 4 kw, solar peak,grid synchronized system can displace this consumption on a average yearly basis.

    R1000 per month can finance R68 000 over 7 years or R 52 000 over 5 years with the mentioned 6% interest. ( Own capital, do I place it in a fixed deposit or buy a solar system scenario)

    If you can find a 4kW peak system supplied and installed in a range of R 52 000 to R 68 000 and you are happy with the payback period and you can also spin back your mechanical power meter, then you can finance your system with your current electricity account of R 1000 per month

    O, and the 6% interest earned this way is also not taxed and after 5 to 7 years you don't pay VAT on your electricity bill any longer
    Last edited by vlakkie; 2020/03/13 at 08:43 AM.
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  3. #22
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    Quote Originally Posted by vlakkie View Post
    To add to Tripletts reply:

    On an apples with apples basis.

    Your current monthly consumption of about R 1000 equates to about 500 units per month or 17 units daily.

    In general for South Africa, a 4 kw, solar peak,grid synchronized system can displace this consumption on a average yearly basis.

    R1000 per month can finance R68 000 over 7 years or R 52 000 over 5 years with the mentioned 6% interest. ( Own capital, do I place it in a fixed deposit or buy a solar system scenario)

    If you can find a 4kW peak system supplied and installed in a range of R 52 000 to R 68 000 and you are happy with the payback period and you can also spin back your mechanical power meter, then you can finance your system with your current electricity account of R 1000 per month

    O, and the 6% interest earned this way is also not taxed and after 5 to 7 years you don't pay VAT on your electricity bill any longer
    Remembering off course to also take into account increases in Eskom tariffs.
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  4. #23
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    Quote Originally Posted by vlakkie View Post

    O, and the 6% interest earned this way is also not taxed and after 5 to 7 years you don't pay VAT on your electricity bill any longer
    Only if you have no other investment bearing investments/accounts.
    Cheers

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  5. #24
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    The price of batteries is also coming down, the problem is the ZAR:USD is working against us, ask SASOL what that means...

    I'm costing a Lifepo4 battery now, 13kw,it should come in at R40-R45k, that's relatively cheap when compared to pylontech etc.

    Bottom line, In SA, the normal economical analysis & calculations don't take the local issues into account.. BEE, Corruption, incompetence etc... Rather buy now than once SA gets degraded, inflation will kick in and our buying power will drop..

  6. #25
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    i wonder if the same methodology is used when people buy fancy 4x4 's.

    Surely the cheaper Tata 4x4 can also get from A to B?

    Each person spent their money the way they want, if you want a person to justify his expensive solar system, first justify your expensive 4x4, and once you did your justification , you will pretty much see its the same thing!

    No two persons are the same, so i am happy for the solar and 4x4 guy, they both are enjoying their money!

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  8. #26
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    Quote Originally Posted by faniedup View Post
    Almal se behoeftes verskil, ek merk 'n mate van Solar snobisme hier op, een resep en as jy dit nie uit daardie perspektief sien nie is jy dom en mors geld.
    Spaar kapitaal ook ... na die nuwe 4x4 gekoop it of opgegradeer is ... na daai Afrika trippie gedoen is.

    Dis nie snobisme nie. Dink dis meer 'n geval van die wat inligting deel het al 'n paar paadjies geloop en van die eerste dag op daardie paadjies was daar opinies gelig.
    As mens uiteindelik jou doel bereik het en solar werk vir jou, en newbies begin vrae vra, sit mens terugdink oor alles wat mensself al probeer het, praat mens met ervaring, en dis nie snobisme nie.

    Net soos newbies met 4x4 vs die ervare mense ... ;-)


    Quote Originally Posted by lekhubu943 View Post
    Well we know the answer, but I am sure some will soon post long technical posts to answer us either way.
    Jip, here it is:
    WANT's vs NEED's coupled with prices and reasons and justification of spend makes for a boatload of technical hidden pitfalls and "small print T&C's".


    Quote Originally Posted by vlakkie View Post
    Your current monthly consumption of about R 1000 equates to about 500 units per month or 17 units daily.
    Following on Ekkekan's examples, some people don't even know what their electricity bill is (engine size) nor what their units are (gears).
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right.

  9. #27
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    Now this makes me feel insecure ...
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by the_terrible_triplett; 2020/03/13 at 11:17 AM.
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right.

  10. #28
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    Now this makes me feel insecure ...
    No...makes you feel jealous



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  11. #29
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    Jip, here it is:
    WANT's vs NEED's coupled with prices and reasons and justification of spend makes for a boatload of technical hidden pitfalls.
    Maybe I read between the lines, but it seems to me you end up implying people's needs should correlate with yours, therefore there system should look like yours, else they will make the same errors you made, therefore they need your solution?

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  13. #30
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    Skimmed through the thread, but the ROI based on a R1k bill and a R250k investment doesn't make work for me.

    And I also agree that an 8kW system for R250k is quite expensive. But I suppose you have to pay for a turnkey system.

    I'm in the same boat as LdLL, and it isn't a question of whether I will go solar, but when.

    What I have learned is that I'll first do some proper load measurement, then let Fluffy, Triplet and the rest fight over proposing the best solution
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  15. #31
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    Now this makes me feel insecure ...
    Ooooiiiii moet nie my solar setup so post voor almal nie!!!! Nou gaan hulle my eers dislike. 😁😁😁 130kwh storage. Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Gerlach; 2020/03/13 at 01:29 PM.

  16. #32
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    Quote Originally Posted by Frikstervx200 View Post
    i wonder if the same methodology is used when people buy fancy 4x4 's.

    Surely the cheaper Tata 4x4 can also get from A to B?

    Each person spent their money the way they want, if you want a person to justify his expensive solar system, first justify your expensive 4x4, and once you did your justification , you will pretty much see its the same thing!

    No two persons are the same, so i am happy for the solar and 4x4 guy, they both are enjoying their money!
    Briljant gese!!!!!!!! Nice!!!!!!

  17. #33
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gerlach View Post
    Ooooiiiii moet nie my solar setup so post voor almal nie!!!! Nou gaan hulle my eers dislike. 😁😁😁 130kwh storage. Click image for larger version. 

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    Net bewondering, ek dink ons almal sou graag so battery bank wou gehad het, maar my dak is nie groot genoeg om dit gelaai te hou nie :-)

  18. #34
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    Quote Originally Posted by faniedup View Post
    Maybe I read between the lines, but it seems to me you end up implying people's needs should correlate with yours, therefore there system should look like yours, else they will make the same errors you made, therefore they need your solution?
    I don't type between the lines.

    All I can do is share on what I did and why, how and why it works for me, but maybe even more importantly, also share that what I did try before that did not work out so well.

    What the next person does with the info, that is completely up to them.
    Last edited by the_terrible_triplett; 2020/03/13 at 02:48 PM.
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

    I'm not opinionated ... I'm just always right.

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  20. #35
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    SARS wants to know when their portion of the R15k p/a has been accounted for?

  21. #36
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    People (this is the inclusive mode of address to avoid dissing those of indeterminate gender...)

    Having done precisely the same complex calculations for my own home, do please allow me to save you some time. Where in the world is the national electricity grid 100% reliable? The answer is - nowhere. Here in SA you might calculate a reliability of 58% but at least that power is presently relatively "clean". My own experience across Africa, as equipment wears out, is that reliability declines rapidly with time and "brown" power contaminates the supply.

    In 10 years' time your R250k will be worth R25k, you will have replaced your fridge and a host of electrical appliances three times, your power bill will be R60k per annum and you will STILL need to generate your own power.

    I'm sorry, but there is a limit to what economic analyses can tell you. Your answer depends on the accuracy of your predictive data which is, by definition, speculative.

    Self generation of power is a no-brainer!

  22. #37
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    Quote Originally Posted by Erwin Schimper View Post
    Invest the money. Use some of you money and change geyser to solar. By that I mean small 15000.00 solar system that also can be used during load shedding. Few panels batteries inveter to run lights and plugs but not stove and heat water during the day only. Keep you electical supply to geyser for rainy days. Install a switch over switch at geyser

    Wise words at least 40% of your electricity consumption is caused by your geyser, so concentrate on that and if you are a DIY guy for approx R11000.00 you can fit a system yourself for a 150L geyser using PTC element and 3 x 250watt PV panels on the roof. Then your savings are nearly immediate! not as the glib salesman tries to fool you!!
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  23. #38
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    Quote Originally Posted by SeyMike View Post
    In 10 years' time your R250k will be worth R25k, you will have replaced your fridge and a host of electrical appliances three times, your power bill will be R60k per annum and you will STILL need to generate your own power.
    I live in De Wildt, we already have Brown Power and I already spend over R60k per year on a 3ph feed. I've replaced a host of pumps and compressors over the last 20 years.
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  24. #39
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    There is some really interesting economic theories expressed in this thread.

    Answering your question. I would not invest my R250k cash in off the grid technology. If I do not need it to eat or educate my kids, I would invest it right now in the best yielding money market account I can access. Hang onto your money.

    If you need to have an alternate power source, restrict it to that which is critical to you. If you do not have the option of grid supply, maximise off grid capacity according to the exact load type/need you have (get advice on this) and no more. Batteries are expensive and do not last forever. You will end up replacing them.

    In my type of self employment, which uses computers and a remote location with grid couple, we have gas stove and geyser (dual), a 2kW inverter with two 105Ah batteries for computers and TV and a 7.5kVA diesel generator as backup. In today's money terms, the inverter/battery system and generators system would cost R55k. I have had to run the generator for 180h in 10 years of ownership @ 3l per hour. I have changed the oil and filters a few times. I know exactly, because it is a business expense. The system has proved resilient to all stages of load shedding we have experienced thus far. If you are worried about fridges and freezers defrosting, fill every empty orifice with ice-one of best heat sinks known to man.

    I am not against solar-far from it. But as my income is investment related, I cannot come even close to justifying investing money in these systems until they halve in capital cost. It is not an investment, it is a nice to have-maybe. Under current economics, there exists no financial basis for spending your hard earned cash going off grid. Personal circumstance maybe, but not investment wise.

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  26. #40
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    Default Re: please help me calculate....

    I agree with Rob. I'll be installing solar panels to reduce or negate all daytime power usage, and will run off the grid at night.

    This should give me a decent ROI.
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