Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?





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  1. #1
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    Default Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Hi guys - I bought a Blue Nova 44aH battery (link below - pdf atatched)

    https://bluenova.co.za/wp-content/up...V-44-570Wh.pdf

    Just using it as a backup to run my routers, voip phone etc

    Setup --> charger plugged into mains, connected to battery, inverter connected to battery and routers etc connected to inverter = uninterrupted power to routers

    I will be running <50W so basically 4-5amps

    I have one of the Midas PSD008 chargers

    a. Is above charger fine to use for charging this battery? it will be permanently connected ie running like a UPS
    b. Which mode would be best? It has a STD SLOW (Tortoise), STD FAST (Hare), AGM etc - does it matter?

    thanks in advance
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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Hi DPS - from my understanding after interacting with the BlueNova technical team you should be fine with 'any smart charger' provided that it does not do a desulphation program or exceeds 14.4 V in any of it's programs. The reason for this is that the high voltages generated in this programs can trip the BMS. I've been using a Victron Blue Smart IP65 12/15 without any issue on my Blue Nova Lithium Iron Phosphate 12V 104Ah Bluetooth Battery. I'm not familiar with the PSD008 charger technical specifications but if it adheres to this guidelines there should be no issues.
    Last edited by nicom; 2020/03/11 at 05:12 PM.

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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Thanks for the feedback

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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Quote Originally Posted by nicom View Post
    Hi DPS - from my understanding after interacting with the BlueNova technical team you should be fine with 'any smart charger' provided that it does not do a desulphation program or exceeds 14.4 V in any of it's programs. The reason for this is that the high voltages generated in this programs can trip the BMS. I've been using a Victron Blue Smart IP65 12/15 without any issue on my Blue Nova Lithium Iron Phosphate 12V 104Ah Bluetooth Battery. I'm not familiar with the PSD008 charger technical specifications but if it adheres to this guidelines there should be no issues.
    That is my understanding also.
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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Personally I won't use a charger if it doesn't specifically have a lithium mode. Maybe for short periods and under strict supervision, but not for prolonged periods.

    You bought a very expensive battery which should be seen as an investment, don't take a chance with the wrong charger.
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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    Personally I won't use a charger if it doesn't specifically have a lithium mode. Maybe for short periods and under strict supervision, but not for prolonged periods.

    You bought a very expensive battery which should be seen as an investment, don't take a chance with the wrong charger.

    Thanks Bigboy - any recommendations?

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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    The BMS negates the need for a dedicated lithium charger.

    The idea with the Blue Nova is to be a drop-in replacement for lead batteries.

    Provided that one do not exceed the capacity of the BMS, as stated.

    If you want a dedicated charger, Iíd go for one of the Victron units.

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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Quote Originally Posted by dps View Post
    Hi guys - I bought a Blue Nova 44aH battery (link below - pdf atatched)

    https://bluenova.co.za/wp-content/up...V-44-570Wh.pdf

    Just using it as a backup to run my routers, voip phone etc

    Setup --> charger plugged into mains, connected to battery, inverter connected to battery and routers etc connected to inverter = uninterrupted power to routers

    I will be running <50W so basically 4-5amps

    I have one of the Midas PSD008 chargers

    a. Is above charger fine to use for charging this battery? it will be permanently connected ie running like a UPS
    b. Which mode would be best? It has a STD SLOW (Tortoise), STD FAST (Hare), AGM etc - does it matter?

    thanks in advance
    The BlueNova BMS is very good as protecting the battery.

    That battery is a drop in Lead Acid replacement and does not require any special charger or communication/control between the charger and battery BMS.

    To make sure the battery charges to full, make sure your charger can charge at 14.1-14.4V as many "12V" chargers do not go that high. The Victron chargers on "Normal" setting is perfect at 14.4V.

    That battery can be charged at up to 44A constantly, which means you can charge it from "0%" to 100% in 1 hour. Most basic chargers will not be able to charge at higher than 20A, so switch that charger to the high setting to charge faster without any damage to the battery. Make sure your DC cables are short and thick enough for the intended amps.
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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    I have the same PSD008 charger.
    It works fine to charge a 108Ah Blue Nova battery, and it will do the same for your 44Ah BN battery.

    But...

    What does not sit quite so lekker, is that the PSD008 charger will automatically revert to the 2A setting after a mains power interruption (thank you Eskom). This happens regardless of any previous mode it was in. You have to disconnect the charger from the battery, reselect the 8A setting first, reconnect, and only then the 8A mode that you actually want will take effect.

    On my old model Ctek 7A charger, the charger automatically resumes where it left off after a mains power interruption - which is what you really want. Therefore - check first with any charger that you consider buying that you get this feature.
    Eggie.

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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggie View Post
    I have the same PSD008 charger.
    It works fine to charge a 108Ah Blue Nova battery, and it will do the same for your 44Ah BN battery.

    But...

    What does not sit quite so lekker, is that the PSD008 charger will automatically revert to the 2A setting after a mains power interruption (thank you Eskom). This happens regardless of any previous mode it was in. You have to disconnect the charger from the battery, reselect the 8A setting first, reconnect, and only then the 8A mode that you actually want will take effect.

    On my old model Ctek 7A charger, the charger automatically resumes where it left off after a mains power interruption - which is what you really want. Therefore - check first with any charger that you consider buying that you get this feature.
    Thanks for above (and other replies) - can I check something - besides the fact that it will obviously take a long time to recharge the battery on the 2A mode is it 'bad' for the battery to charge at the low current?

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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Quote Originally Posted by dps View Post
    Thanks for above (and other replies) - can I check something - besides the fact that it will obviously take a long time to recharge the battery on the 2A mode is it 'bad' for the battery to charge at the low current?

    No problem other than it will take longer to charge.
    Eggie.

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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggie View Post
    I have the same PSD008 charger.
    It works fine to charge a 108Ah Blue Nova battery, and it will do the same for your 44Ah BN battery.

    Please refer to what nicom posted - he has communicated with the bluenova team and they have confirmed that the desulfation phase isnt good for the bluenova batteries, and the psd008 does desulfation

    please use the psd at own risk - rather spend the extra R2,5k on a proper li-ion charger for the very expensive battery

    And no I am not ripping of the PSD008, I have one myself
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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Just a follow up on this thread - I take it those 'auto-save' charges are not ideal - like the Optimate which goes into a desulphation mode automatically based on the battery's volts - this pushes the input volts up to around 20v.

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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Quote Originally Posted by dps View Post
    Thanks Bigboy - any recommendations?
    I like Victron, most of their chargers have lithium modes.
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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie100 View Post
    Please refer to what nicom posted - he has communicated with the bluenova team and they have confirmed that the desulfation phase isnt good for the bluenova batteries, and the psd008 does desulfation

    please use the psd at own risk - rather spend the extra R2,5k on a proper li-ion charger for the very expensive battery

    And no I am not ripping of the PSD008, I have one myself

    Since you have your own charger:

    Please read in the manual what steps the charger goes through and then do a test or 2 on a typical 12V battery. Whether it is a lead acid battery or a Blue Nova does not matter, as long as your battery is in reasonably good condition. Anywhere from about 10% SOC and up for a lead acid up will do. On the Blue Nova the BMS will protect the battery from excessive discharge.

    Should the PSD008 charger detect a "good" battery in step 1, it moves right away to step 2 (good = 5V up to 14V).
    The desulphation stage (step 2) takes about 8 seconds and emits a single 2A pulse to determine if the battery is in reasonable condition (ie not sulphated).

    Then the charger moves on to the next steps to charge and maintain the battery.

    If you spot any real and practical flaws in this charger being used to charge a Blue Nova battery correctly, I would appreciate it if you would post your findings here. I'm sure there are others that are also interested. Switching from lead acid to LiFePO4 is expensive, but it makes a lot of sense for us campers.
    Eggie.

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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    On a different tack do you need a lithium specific DC-DC charger or would a WRND one suffice?

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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Quote Originally Posted by River Rat View Post
    On a different tack do you need a lithium specific DC-DC charger or would a WRND one suffice?
    Same applies, I donít know the WRND, if itís compatible, the manufacturer will state it.
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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eggie View Post
    Since you have your own charger:

    Please read in the manual what steps the charger goes through and then do a test or 2 on a typical 12V battery. Whether it is a lead acid battery or a Blue Nova does not matter, as long as your battery is in reasonably good condition. Anywhere from about 10% SOC and up for a lead acid up will do. On the Blue Nova the BMS will protect the battery from excessive discharge.

    Should the PSD008 charger detect a "good" battery in step 1, it moves right away to step 2 (good = 5V up to 14V).
    The desulphation stage (step 2) takes about 8 seconds and emits a single 2A pulse to determine if the battery is in reasonable condition (ie not sulphated).

    Then the charger moves on to the next steps to charge and maintain the battery.

    If you spot any real and practical flaws in this charger being used to charge a Blue Nova battery correctly, I would appreciate it if you would post your findings here. I'm sure there are others that are also interested. Switching from lead acid to LiFePO4 is expensive, but it makes a lot of sense for us campers.
    I have noticed that the PSD starts out at 16.7v when connected to low charge battery (10.5v) - I presume that's not good even if BN battery has built-in protection

    found this one below - bit small (only 5A) but fine for what I intend to do with it

    https://www.bushpower.co.za/product/...5-5amp-charger

    does anyone know if the Victron will 'remember' the setting after power failure? So if I switch to Lithium mode will it resume on this mode following power failure?

    thanks
    Last edited by dps; 2020/03/17 at 01:14 PM.

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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Quote Originally Posted by dps View Post
    does anyone know if the Victron will 'remember' the setting after power failure? So if I switch to Lithium mode will it resume on this mode following power failure?

    thanks
    For what its worth. The Victron Mobile App has a "Settings File Manager" where settings are stored. I have not tested this but thought it might be worth mentioning.
    See here: https://www.victronenergy.com/live/v...settings_files
    Hope this helps
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    Default Re: Can I use any smart charger for Lithium batteries?

    Quote Originally Posted by dps View Post
    I have noticed that the PSD starts out at 16.7v when connected to low charge battery (10.5v) - I presume that's not good even if BN battery has built-in protection

    found this one below - bit small (only 5A) but fine for what I intend to do with it

    https://www.bushpower.co.za/product/...5-5amp-charger

    does anyone know if the Victron will 'remember' the setting after power failure? So if I switch to Lithium mode will it resume on this mode following power failure?

    thanks

    Thanks for feedback.
    Did not know about that bit. Does it charge the 10,5V battery right up to 16,7V??

    Not good for lithium or lead-acid.

    Still, I did specify a "good" battery and 10,5V is not good, even if it falls within the spec given in the manual. Lithium or any lead battery at 10,5V is bad news, ditto for 16,7V.
    Eggie.

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