Pajero Gen 2 restoration - Page 9





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  1. #161
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by ghouwens View Post
    No, do NOT remove the seals from the bearings. The seals are not intended as oil seals but rather dirt seals. When I am replacing bearing in a gearbox, I normally remove the seals, wash the grease out, clip one seal back in, fill the bearing with gearbox oil and clip the other seal back in place. Much of that oil seeps out while fitting though.

    This is not an issue as oil from the gearbox will creep into the bearing to keep it lubricated, but the seals keep the small metal bits out of the bearing.
    Thanks for this good advice Guy. Much appreciated!

    Now if you can only find the bearings and bush for me as well!

  2. #162
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by mygoggie View Post
    Thanks for this good advice Guy. Much appreciated!

    Now if you can only find the bearings and bush for me as well!
    Have you looked at DU bushes? Bearing Man and BI stock them. Don't know whether they go that large though. Does Loftie not have an idea?

    What are the dimensions, bearing and bush?
    Guy B. Vergoes Houwens
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  3. #163
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    I spoke to an Engineer at Vesconite SA and sent him the operating parameter. According to them Vesconite will not work as a bearing/bush in this situation.

    Now I need to find someone that can tell me if Oilite will work.

    Guy, I will ask BMG regarding the DU bushes. Thanks for that.


    Regarding the gearbox bearings. I cannot find the correct bearings in SA. Yes, I have tried everyone I know of.

    If you know of the following bearings being in stock somewhere please let me know.

    2 off 63/28N - ID=28mm OD=68mm Width=18mm with snap ring and sealed
    1 off 63/32N - ID=32mm OD=75mm Width=20mm with snap ring and sealed
    1 off 6207N - ID=35mm OD=72mm Width=17mm with snap ring and sealed
    Last edited by mygoggie; 2020/12/17 at 03:37 PM.

  4. #164
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by mygoggie View Post
    I spoke to an Engineer at Vesconite SA and sent him the operating parameter. According to them Vesconite will not work as a bearing/bush in this situation.

    Now I need to find someone that can tell me if Oilite will work.

    Guy, I will ask BMG regarding the DU bushes. Thanks for that.


    Regarding the gearbox bearings. I cannot find the correct bearings in SA. Yes, I have tried everyone I know of.

    If you know of the following bearings being in stock somewhere please let me know.

    2 off 63/28N - ID=28mm OD=68mm Width=18mm with snap ring and sealed
    1 off 63/32N - ID=32mm OD=75mm Width=20mm with snap ring and sealed
    1 off 6207N - ID=35mm OD=72mm Width=17mm with snap ring and sealed
    An engineering fundi might be able to give advice on oillite. My novice brain would give it a go.
    Current - 2009 Mazda BT50 3.0CRDi 4x4 d/c
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  6. #165
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    I have exhausted all avenues for the bush. I will have to cast a new white metal lining and have that machined down to match the splined sleeve.

    The bearings are unobtainium. I think I can get bearings without the slot and have the slots machined.

  7. #166
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    BMG Strydom Park (011 793 5400) gave me a quote for V5MT1 gearbox bearings about a year ago. Then they had one bearing in stock and were able to source another. Of course we live in difficult times and supply chains have been interrupted everywhere.

    There was also a bearing kit on eBay for 100. This item is no longer available but I have just found this. It looks similar and might be suitable: Mitsubishi Pajero / Shogun / L200 5 Speed Gearbox Bearing & Oil Seal Rebuild Kit

    Not long after, I was able to get a used box of unknown condition from a scrap yard. This was intended as insurance in case something was already seriously broken or I later broke something myself.

    In the meantime to avoid the bearing noise I have been driving around with just two gears, 4th in low and high range. Fortunately I learnt to double declutch at my daddy's knee but I have got to fix this soon. Without new bearings I will not be able to do a repair but will have to take a chance on an unknown and older box.

    I'll be making bearing enquiries again soon. Hope this helps for now.

    Regards
    2000 Mitsubishi Pajero SWB 3.0 V6 24v (Factory Service Manuals, Parts Catalogs)
    1978 Land Rover Series III 109 PUP (Workshop Manuals)

  8. #167
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriousEngine View Post
    BMG Strydom Park (011 793 5400) gave me a quote for V5MT1 gearbox bearings about a year ago. Then they had one bearing in stock and were able to source another. Of course we live in difficult times and supply chains have been interrupted everywhere.

    There was also a bearing kit on eBay for 100. This item is no longer available but I have just found this. It looks similar and might be suitable: Mitsubishi Pajero / Shogun / L200 5 Speed Gearbox Bearing & Oil Seal Rebuild Kit

    Not long after, I was able to get a used box of unknown condition from a scrap yard. This was intended as insurance in case something was already seriously broken or I later broke something myself.

    In the meantime to avoid the bearing noise I have been driving around with just two gears, 4th in low and high range. Fortunately I learnt to double declutch at my daddy's knee but I have got to fix this soon. Without new bearings I will not be able to do a repair but will have to take a chance on an unknown and older box.

    I'll be making bearing enquiries again soon. Hope this helps for now.

    Regards

    Hi,

    I managed to source (fingers crossed) the correct bearings from Autobax. Let's see. I bought bearings today with the samples in hand and when I got home, these were not sealed. I am currently a very happy chappy.

    NOT ...

    Tomorrow I will need to return these and get a refund.

    Here are the CORRECT bearings:

    2 off 63/28 2RSNR
    1 off 63/32 2RSNR
    1 off 6207 2RSNR


    If you are going to redo your gearbox, you will need three things that are unobtanium. The one is a locking nut (MD703748) and the other the TC output bush and related concertina oil seal (MB919230 or MD919210).






    I am going to make the nut and bush and if you want the same you must let me know please.

    The spiral concertina oil seal I still need to figure out why the spiral is there and how it works. For reference this is a NOK BZ5099E with dimensions 33X43/82X8/20








    Once I know what I need to do, I will make my own solution to press fit into the space.

    Never buy any bearings from Ebay as 90% are fake. If you do not believe me just search for "fake SKF bearings".

    So if you know what I can use to replace the spiral oils seal let me know.
    Last edited by mygoggie; 2021/01/16 at 05:27 PM.

  9. #168
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    I am slowly progressing. The repair job has now really become a restoration process entailing making your own parts and plans to get a final product that works as well or better.

    I have taken a gazillion photos and videos of what I am doing and will start posting in a series of modules one of these days. Time is not on my side at the moment. I must say that I am actually fortunate in this aspect as I do have access to time travel!

    Anyway back to today.

    I received the altered transfer case rear and front output shafts. Can you see what was done?






    No? Then look closer! Even closer ...

    I had a hole drill and tapped into the end of the splined shaft so that I can lock the new ribbed sleeve that fits onto the shaft in place.





    The metal is so hard that the thread grooves started to taper inwards the deeper the hole became. Obviously the thread cutting tool's teeth or tooth decreased in height the more it cut the metal. I ran a #1 tap down the hole, then a #2 tap and then the final #3 tap refused half way down. Took most of an hour to cut the hole clean to the bottom.

    The front output shaft was obviously threaded after the rear output shaft as the #1 tap did not even want to enter the hole. I spoke to the machine shop and they will redo the threading for me.

    Now it is onto making a flange to fit onto the new ribbed sleeve and bolt that to the new double cardan joint.




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  11. #169
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    I took the front output shaft back to the engineering place to be tapped correctly. As I thought the chappie never tested the hole with a bolt.

    I received the shaft back with the bolt screwed into the shaft.





    Looking at this picture something caught my eye and I did a double take. Let me check again I told myself.

    Lo' and behold ...






    Yeah, this is the alignment of the thread. I looked into the hole and the chappie not only did the tapping by hand, he also managed to cross thread the existing thread ... now the bolt locks halfway down the hole.

    I gave up and will take this back tomorrow. How it will be fixed I have no idea.
    Last edited by mygoggie; 2021/01/07 at 10:44 PM.

  12. #170
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    First impression is that it would be difficult and risky to tap that in the first place. That is not knowing what the splined shaft is made of. Is it something like en19 or is it even induction hardened or case hardened. What does the bolt do. ? Does it lock the splined shaft to the yoke .? You hope he can re chase it straight. Could he go one size up.?They make special taps for harder steel.They are ground differently.

    How much torque is required on the bolt? You can always opt for a timesert or helicoil if he cant fix it. These days they have machines that can even tap toolsteels that have been hardened like high speed steel but it uses edm for the process.

  13. #171
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by plunger View Post
    First impression is that it would be difficult and risky to tap that in the first place. That is not knowing what the splined shaft is made of. Is it something like en19 or is it even induction hardened or case hardened. What does the bolt do. ? Does it lock the splined shaft to the yoke .? You hope he can re chase it straight. Could he go one size up.?They make special taps for harder steel.They are ground differently.

    How much torque is required on the bolt? You can always opt for a timesert or helicoil if he cant fix it. These days they have machines that can even tap toolsteels that have been hardened like high speed steel but it uses edm for the process.
    Hi @plunger, very good questions. I will answer to my best of knowledge.

    I think it is EN19 as the shaft rings like a very good quality bell when tapped. I think this is induction hardened as the whole shaft from surface to center is very very hard.

    The bolt is simply to lock the splined sleeve onto the splined shaft. Nothing more. There is no torque on the bolt except when it is torqued to fasten it.

    I have no idea how this can be fixed. I am actually at a "lost for words" place. Will take the part back this morning to discuss the options. My first idea is to try and get the thread straight again. Let's see!

  14. #172
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    The draft design of the new flanged yoke. I will discuss it this morning as well.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Pajero output shaft splined sleeve flange.jpg 
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  15. #173
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    I once needed a shaft machined because it would not fit in my lathe . A simple job the machine shop managed to stuff up.If I were to do that I would set it up in a four jaw and clock off the ground shaft just before the spline starts. Then its a simple matter off tapping slowly and carefully because the last thing you want to do is break a tap off in the shaft. They could even set a steady rest up on the shaft but I doubt its necessary. I think the guy was lazy to do this and tapped it on a bench without paying enough attention.

  16. #174
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by plunger View Post
    I once needed a shaft machined because it would not fit in my lathe . A simple job the machine shop managed to stuff up.If I were to do that I would set it up in a four jaw and clock off the ground shaft just before the spline starts. Then its a simple matter off tapping slowly and carefully because the last thing you want to do is break a tap off in the shaft. They could even set a steady rest up on the shaft but I doubt its necessary. I think the guy was lazy to do this and tapped it on a bench without paying enough attention.
    Yep, he sure did a bench job. Let's see what the bossman says this morning! ;-)

  17. #175
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    I would go for a larger diameter HT bolt, but insist that:

    1. The hole and thread be done on a lathe.
    2. The other parts be modified to suite the new diameter.
    3. The shop pays for the work.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" - Martin Luther king Jr

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  18. #176
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eTouareg View Post
    I would go for a larger diameter HT bolt, but insist that:

    1. The hole and thread be done on a lathe.
    2. The other parts be modified to suite the new diameter.
    3. The shop pays for the work.
    The Bossman will do the work himself. There was the usual back and forth and we departed ways on a friendly basis. One size up will be the last resort and
    3/8" - 24 UNF will be the one to go for. First step will be to try and pick the thread up from the deeper end of the hole, set the tap accordingly and recut the entry portion of thread. There is enough original tread at the bottom of the hole for a good tight grip by the bolt.

    Let's see what is the final solution ...
    Last edited by mygoggie; 2021/01/08 at 12:09 PM.

  19. #177
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    Re fake bearings, this at Practical Machinist:
    'A major bearing supplier can buy bearings in bulk cheaper and save a few cents on every one by using generic boxes with stickers.
    If you really want to know, call the place you ordered from and find out where they got it from.
    Then call SKF and find out if they are an authorized SKF dealer.
    Or you could just install them and get on with your life.
    '

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The oil seal with the spiral groove is maybe intended more as an oil thrower, using a screw action to force oil into the output housing for the speedometer worm drive, the bush and possibly even the shaft and yoke splines. The part you removed does not look to be in too bad a condition and I would consider reusing it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    It looks like there is provision in the bush for oil to drain back into the box - hence the locating slot and hole in the bottom. And yes, please do make a spare - we can haggle later.

    For proper bearing/shaft/bush alignment check for an exact fit between the outer face of the output shaft bearing and the housing. The housing would have been accurately assembled with the correct spacer ring on manufacture.

    I presume you are still planning to fit an oil seal in the recess behind the flange, but perhaps not the original dust cover. This means the seal will be exposed to the elements (and lots of Kalahari dust). Unprotected, its life as an effective oil seal may be rather short. Same applies to the rear too. A cable tie is not sufficient!

    Finally, and I am reluctant to ask, but why is it necessary to bolt the yoke/fkange to the front output shaft? I may have missed something but both the gearbox and front diff are fixed in place on mounting bushes. Other than wobble from road shocks, there is very little relative movement (unlike at the rear). That front prop shaft is not going anywhere but it needs a small degree of freedom.

    Sorry if these comments are not helpful at this stage but probably best to mention them sooner rather than later

    Regards
    2000 Mitsubishi Pajero SWB 3.0 V6 24v (Factory Service Manuals, Parts Catalogs)
    1978 Land Rover Series III 109 PUP (Workshop Manuals)

  20. #178
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriousEngine View Post
    Re fake bearings, this at Practical Machinist:

    Or you could just install them and get on with your life.
    '
    It is such a massive job to get the gearbox dissassembled and removed that I will revert to quality bearings only.


    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriousEngine View Post
    The oil seal with the spiral groove is maybe intended more as an oil thrower, using a screw action to force oil into the output housing for the speedometer worm drive, the bush and possibly even the shaft and yoke splines. The part you removed does not look to be in too bad a condition and I would consider reusing it.
    Yes, I worked out that it is intended to force oil back into the hollow shaft. The rubber in the splash seal (as it is called) is rock hard and my concern is not about function but wear on the shaft which is already slightly visible.


    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriousEngine View Post
    And yes, please do make a spare - we can haggle later.
    I have already made you a new nut as well. It is ready. Machining was a bit of bob, but it still works out cheaper than buying one overseas and shipping it to SA.

    I will make you a bush as well. Will just have to get the body sleeve machined.


    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriousEngine View Post
    For proper bearing/shaft/bush alignment check for an exact fit between the outer face of the output shaft bearing and the housing. The housing would have been accurately assembled with the correct spacer ring on manufacture.
    It is a press fit and once fitted the housing will be clocked and the inside face machined to exact specs. Clearance required is in the order of order of 5/100 mm

    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriousEngine View Post
    I presume you are still planning to fit an oil seal in the recess behind the flange, but perhaps not the original dust cover. This means the seal will be exposed to the elements (and lots of Kalahari dust). Unprotected, its life as an effective oil seal may be rather short. Same applies to the rear too. A cable tie is not sufficient!
    There you are now stepping on my current sore toe ... I am pondering on how to get the existing dust cover adapted. I will most probably take an tin can and just cut it open, knock a hole in with a hammer and screwdriver and tie it in place with some bloudraad.

    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriousEngine View Post
    Finally, and I am reluctant to ask, but why is it necessary to bolt the yoke/fkange to the front output shaft? I may have missed something but both the gearbox and front diff are fixed in place on mounting bushes. Other than wobble from road shocks, there is very little relative movement (unlike at the rear). That front prop shaft is not going anywhere but it needs a small degree of freedom.
    I am just doing it now so that if I ever want to lift the front more than the 40mm I can also fit a double cardan joint here. To get the specific shaft out refer to ^^^ It requires the whole transmission train to be removed.


    Quote Originally Posted by MysteriousEngine View Post
    Sorry if these comments are not helpful at this stage but probably best to mention them sooner rather than later
    Most welcome, most welcome and munch appreciated!

    BTW if you know where I can buy a new transfer chain let me know!

  21. #179
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    Uncle Brian phoned me and said my nuts are finished. Brain had to say something to the effect that this is a bit of an ambiguous statement!

    Me? I was just super glad that I have new nuts.

    Here they are. Two new EN36 nuts. One for me and one for whoever wants to buy it. Could be you @MysteriousEngine!


  22. #180
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    Default Re: Pajero Gen 2 restoration

    What happened? Did the Bossman fix the hole and the thread.
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