Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours





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  1. #1
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    Default Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    Hello everyone,

    We are being load shedded 3 - 4 x a week. This is killing productivity in our office as the staff literally pack up and disappear........

    I am looking for a solution to power:


    • A few LED lights - we could buy these separately (Rechargeable ones)
    • Microsoft Server that runs our Pastel
    • Switchboard phone set
    • Internet Fibre Modem
    • Apple Mac PC


    The staff work on laptops and they have sufficient battery capacity to run for the 4 - 5 hours.

    Please could you recommend some product and/or company that could assist me with this solution.

    Many thanks
    Ryan
    076 570 1479

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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by global traveller View Post
    Hello everyone,We are being load shedded 3 - 4 x a week. This is killing productivity in our office as the staff literally pack up and disappear........I am looking for a solution to power:
    • A few LED lights - we could buy these separately (Rechargeable ones)
    • Microsoft Server that runs our Pastel
    • Switchboard phone set
    • Internet Fibre Modem
    • Apple Mac PC

    The staff work on laptops and they have sufficient battery capacity to run for the 4 - 5 hours.Please could you recommend some product and/or company that could assist me with this solution.Many thanksRyan076 570 1479
    Why don't you just get a genny?
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    I drive a five cylinder bakkie and tow an army inspired van.

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  4. #3
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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    Loads of reading about this this. Should find a solution online.
    There is no task too simple for some people to complicate !



    Mitsi Outlander 2.4 Auto

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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by global traveller View Post
    Hello everyone,

    We are being load shedded 3 - 4 x a week. This is killing productivity in our office as the staff literally pack up and disappear........

    I am looking for a solution to power:


    • A few LED lights - we could buy these separately (Rechargeable ones)
    • Microsoft Server that runs our Pastel
    • Switchboard phone set
    • Internet Fibre Modem
    • Apple Mac PC


    The staff work on laptops and they have sufficient battery capacity to run for the 4 - 5 hours.

    Please could you recommend some product and/or company that could assist me with this solution.

    Many thanks
    Ryan
    076 570 1479
    This looks like a sale to be made...

    If it was me, you would already have either of the below...
    1. Genny installed to run even a fan or two
    2. Have a UPS installed to run the two fans
    3. Sell you new office space if you are not bound
    4. A love letter stating how much I love you for letting me work from home, and get twice as much done so you can see that I dont [email protected]#$% around during office hours whilst at home.

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    I have 2 Mecer 2400VA inverters, each with 4 x SMF100 batteries. (2 in parallel and 2 in series to make 24V)

    The one in the in the pic has 2 servers, PABX and a HikVision recorder with 11 cameras connected. It will stay alive for +- 8 hours.

    The inverter is set to 20A charging. (There is a 10A and 20A selector)
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Kobus

    Nissan

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  8. #6
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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by global traveller View Post
    Hello everyone,

    We are being load shedded 3 - 4 x a week. This is killing productivity in our office as the staff literally pack up and disappear........

    I am looking for a solution to power:


    • A few LED lights - we could buy these separately (Rechargeable ones)
    • Microsoft Server that runs our Pastel
    • Switchboard phone set
    • Internet Fibre Modem
    • Apple Mac PC


    The staff work on laptops and they have sufficient battery capacity to run for the 4 - 5 hours.

    Please could you recommend some product and/or company that could assist me with this solution.

    Many thanks
    Ryan
    076 570 1479
    Something like this will probably do fine for you. You need to buy two 100AH batteries. Get the best you can afford.

    https://www.bonanzatech.co.za/index....roller=product

    If this one doesnt last the full 4-5 hours, just buy another one, or its baby brother (https://www.bonanzatech.co.za/index....roller=product) and split the loads.

    Batteries I would suggest are DISCOVER - RITTAR - OMNI POWER

    Good luck, it's actually quite fun and rewarding giving Eksdom a finger.

    ---------------------------------

    If you have to do printing and copies or scans - don't user a large Laser based office machine. Use a small HP/EPSON/Brother SOHO machine.
    DONT ever run a kettle or toaster or geyser, and especially not a heater. Beside sucking the battery out of its mountings you run a big risk of damaging the systems.
    Cheers

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    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

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  10. #7
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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    People feel obliged to buy big systems to cover large loads or long periods of off time.

    It's often way simpler to split the loads and buy 2 or more smaller systems.

    At least that way if some dork boils a kettle of water, you don't lose your server.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    NA TwinTurbo SuperCharger
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    Just take note:
    Most of the offerings with 2400VA is a 24Volt dual 100A/h battery in series (Mecer) system , which effectively is 1x100A/h capacity
    2-3 hours runtime (load depending)
    if you use the above to run all the above , likely might only get 1-2hours on full new batteries because batteries in series equate to one battery to double the volts (2x12v) to power the UPS/inverter

    I would split the load and go for two 1200VA Mecer battery centers which is a 12V single 100Ah battery capacity system.
    This will carry all your load split in two but give longer run times.

    Sadly Iíve seen adverts out there stating the 2400VA Mecer system will give 8 hours run time because people see two batteries and think itís double the run time.

    Further the series connection often results on one battery failing before the other resulting in less life than the single battery Mecer 1200VA centre.

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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    A little bit of info.....
    Many years ago when I got my Mecer setup, bother Mecer and Geewiz suggested I set the charge rate to 10a only.
    Sadly I cannot remember why but it sounded very plausible at the time and my battery is still perfect.
    There is no task too simple for some people to complicate !



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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by DirtBasher View Post
    Just take note:
    Most of the offerings with 2400VA is a 24Volt dual 100A/h battery in series (Mecer) system , which effectively is 1x100A/h capacity
    2-3 hours runtime (load depending)
    if you use the above to run all the above , likely might only get 1-2hours on full new batteries because batteries in series equate to one battery to double the volts (2x12v) to power the UPS/inverter

    I would split the load and go for two 1200VA Mecer battery centers which is a 12V single 100Ah battery capacity system.
    This will carry all your load split in two but give longer run times.

    Sadly Iíve seen adverts out there stating the 2400VA Mecer system will give 8 hours run time because people see two batteries and think itís double the run time.

    Further the series connection often results on one battery failing before the other resulting in less life than the single battery Mecer 1200VA centre.
    Kobus has the solution above, with tested run time.

    Contrary to the above post, 2 batteries in series has double the capacity of a single battery. Their current might be the same, but one runs at 24V while the other only at 12V, ie double the power.

    A 2400VA unit with 2 batteries has the same capacity as 2 x 1200VA units with one battery each, assuming efficiencies are the same.

    Something important to consider is the charge current once power is back on. The bigger the battery bank, the longer your run time. But also the longer your recharge time. As an example, I have 3 x 90AH batteries connected to a 1000VA UPS (36V system). It was designed for smaller batteries, but charges the big ones, no problem. But for each hour the UPS runs battery, it takes 2 hours to charge back up. So I'm fine if Eskom stays on at least 4 hrs during 2hr load shedding.


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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    Hoekom spandeer jy nie die paar rand extra nie, en kry n nice inverter en n Lifepo4 unit of 2 nie en as jy die opsie het om solar te kan gaan dan n mppt en pannels nie, dan verminder jy jou krag rekening ook deur die dag terwyl die krag aan is en jy het heeltyd backup dan. Victron se 3kw Multiplus kan werk vir dit. Die leeftyd wat die Lifepo4 battery jou gaan hou teen oor 105 batterye gaan baie beter wees.

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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by DirtBasher View Post
    Just take note:
    Most of the offerings with 2400VA is a 24Volt dual 100A/h battery in series (Mecer) system , which effectively is 1x100A/h capacity
    2-3 hours runtime (load depending)
    if you use the above to run all the above , likely might only get 1-2hours on full new batteries because batteries in series equate to one battery to double the volts (2x12v) to power the UPS/inverter

    I would split the load and go for two 1200VA Mecer battery centers which is a 12V single 100Ah battery capacity system.
    This will carry all your load split in two but give longer run times.

    Sadly I’ve seen adverts out there stating the 2400VA Mecer system will give 8 hours run time because people see two batteries and think it’s double the run time.

    Further the series connection often results on one battery failing before the other resulting in less life than the single battery Mecer 1200VA centre.
    Do I understand you correctly?

    An inverter with one 100Ah 12V battery will have a lifetime of 10hours at a 10A load. (I hope my calculation is correct)

    Are you saying that a 24V inverter with 2 x 12V 100Ah bateries will also last only 10 hours with a 10A load ?

    And then the same lifetime with a 48V inverter with 4 x 12V batteries at the same load ?

    .
    Last edited by KobusDJ; 2020/02/12 at 05:26 PM.
    Kobus

    Nissan

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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by DirtBasher View Post
    Just take note:
    Most of the offerings with 2400VA is a 24Volt dual 100A/h battery in series (Mecer) system , which effectively is 1x100A/h capacity.
    This is the classic mistake when upping the voltage. Rather do the caks on Wh from the 12 and 24V options and compare the result. It will turn out correct and show the 24V option better than 12V. Batteries would also last longer as the current provided by the 24V system is only 50% in amps load.

  20. #14
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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by global traveller View Post
    Hello everyone,


    • A few LED lights - we could buy these separately (Rechargeable ones)
    • Microsoft Server that runs our Pastel
    • phone Switchboardset
    • Internet Fibre Modem
    • Apple Mac PC


    The staff work on laptops and they have sufficient battery capacity to run for the 4 - 5 hours.
    Yes, you can install a 2kVA UPS and batteries for R10k approx.

    However you can also consider the following:

    • A few LED lights - we could buy these separately (Rechargeable ones): Problem solved
    • Microsoft Server that runs our Pastel: I would investigate running Pastel on a laptop. For a small company this should be possible.
    • phone Switchboardset: None of these run on 220V so could be run on a mini UPS
    • Internet Fibre Modem: Easy to run on a mini UPS.. (This is what I do for a living,,)
    • Apple Mac PC: Use a laptop instead..


    This solution would cost 20% (max) of the inverter UPS option and would be far more efficient resulting in longer battery life etc.

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  22. #15
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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by DirtBasher View Post
    Just take note:
    Most of the offerings with 2400VA is a 24Volt dual 100A/h battery in series (Mecer) system , which effectively is 1x100A/h capacity
    2-3 hours runtime (load depending)
    if you use the above to run all the above , likely might only get 1-2hours on full new batteries because batteries in series equate to one battery to double the volts (2x12v) to power the UPS/inverter

    I would split the load and go for two 1200VA Mecer battery centers which is a 12V single 100Ah battery capacity system.
    This will carry all your load split in two but give longer run times.

    Sadly Iíve seen adverts out there stating the 2400VA Mecer system will give 8 hours run time because people see two batteries and think itís double the run time.

    Further the series connection often results on one battery failing before the other resulting in less life than the single battery Mecer 1200VA centre.
    This is wrong. The 24V system will have a lower current draw for equivalent load and therefore lower resistive losses.

  23. #16
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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    My 2 cents.

    For average loads:
    <1000w: 12v
    2000w: 24v
    3000<:48v

    Also:
    12v: 1 x 12v 100ah battery = 12 x 100 = 1200WH / 2 (can only use 50% of the lead acid) = 600wh
    24v: 2 x 12v 100ah battery = 24 x 100 = 2400WH / 2 (can only use 50% of the lead acid) = 1200wh
    48v: 2 x 12v 100ah battery = 24 x 100 = 4800WH / 2 (can only use 50% of the lead acid) = 2400wh

    Now here is the thing. You can have:
    12v system with 4 x 100ah batteries IF the UPS can charge at 40amps or 10% of the AH rating of the bank.

    Charge Amps:
    8% of AH charge rate is for weekend use so on a 100ah battery that is 8amps - very slow recharge.
    10% of AH charge rate is for daily cycles so on a 100ah battery that is 10amps - it is recharging but not easily for Stage 2 and definitely not for Stage 3 and up.
    15% of AH charge rate is for Eskom failures so on a 100ah battery that is 15amps - faster recharge to meet Stage 2 levels.

    My Advice - following on what @Gerlach said:
    IF your business needs electricity and you own the roof, install a grid tied system.

    Reasons being:
    Stage 8 ... what is that? (... if the sun shines).
    You make money so you need to spend some of that to keep on making money.
    If the sun shines, the panels power the equipment, assisted by batteries.
    At night the batteries power the equipment IF you need to.
    Batteries are re-charged using sun only, and not Eskom.
    And you can set the charge amps to accommodate load shedding schedules.
    With grid tied, you can use less batteries ... T&C's apply obviously, read the fine-print carefully.

    And being grid tied, you save every single watt the panels can generate by offsetting each solar watt against not buying a Eskom watt.
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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  25. #17
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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by the_terrible_triplett View Post
    My 2 cents.

    For average loads:
    <1000w: 12v
    2000w: 24v
    3000<:48v

    Also:
    12v: 1 x 12v 100ah battery = 12 x 100 = 1200WH / 2 (can only use 50% of the lead acid) = 600wh
    24v: 2 x 12v 100ah battery = 24 x 100 = 2400WH / 2 (can only use 50% of the lead acid) = 1200wh
    48v: 2 x 12v 100ah battery = 24 x 100 = 4800WH / 2 (can only use 50% of the lead acid) = 2400wh

    Now here is the thing. You can have:
    12v system with 4 x 100ah batteries IF the UPS can charge at 40amps or 10% of the AH rating of the bank.

    Charge Amps:
    8% of AH charge rate is for weekend use so on a 100ah battery that is 8amps - very slow recharge.
    10% of AH charge rate is for daily cycles so on a 100ah battery that is 10amps - it is recharging but not easily for Stage 2 and definitely not for Stage 3 and up.
    15% of AH charge rate is for Eskom failures so on a 100ah battery that is 15amps - faster recharge to meet Stage 2 levels.

    My Advice - following on what @Gerlach said:
    IF your business needs electricity and you own the roof, install a grid tied system.

    Reasons being:
    Stage 8 ... what is that? (... if the sun shines).
    You make money so you need to spend some of that to keep on making money.
    If the sun shines, the panels power the equipment, assisted by batteries.
    At night the batteries power the equipment IF you need to.
    Batteries are re-charged using sun only, and not Eskom.
    And you can set the charge amps to accommodate load shedding schedules.
    With grid tied, you can use less batteries ... T&C's apply obviously, read the fine-print carefully.

    And being grid tied, you save every single watt the panels can generate by offsetting each solar watt against not buying a Eskom watt.
    Isn't this going a bit overboard?
    The man has a business that need a quick fix to get through load shedding for a couple of hours..
    Yous suggestion looks like spending a fortune on an off grid solution..

    Sorry, but this is rediculous!

  26. #18
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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Mackay View Post
    Isn't this going a bit overboard?
    The man has a business that need a quick fix to get through load shedding for a couple of hours..
    Yous suggestion looks like spending a fortune on an off grid solution..

    Sorry, but this is rediculous!
    The answer is in post #6
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    NA TwinTurbo SuperCharger
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

  27. #19
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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Mackay View Post
    Isn't this going a bit overboard?
    The man has a business that need a quick fix to get through load shedding for a couple of hours..
    Yous suggestion looks like spending a fortune on an off grid solution..

    Sorry, but this is ridiculous!
    For home use, absolutely mad unless you have a pool and daytime usage at home.
    If not, house is empty and no pool, ridiculous costs. Get a UPS.

    But if you have a business that relies on low end consumption equipment like computers, WiFi, switchboard ... it depends on how much you lose per hour when Eskom is off.

    Yes, generators have been mentioned. Here is the thing.
    I have seen APC UPS burn out their chargers trying to accommodate the power coming from "cheap" generators. Now APC's UPS are not cheap, the ones I saw was online double conversion models, so even more expensive that a grid tied inverter. You get a "cheap" generator, you could have equipment in your house fail, as the APC's did. Caveat Emptor.

    UPS'es are definitely a good solution but it is not the ONLY answer for UPS'es tend to have more frequent battery replacements, which can be justified!

    Grid tied on the other hand is not a commonly understood solution.
    If done wisely, you can save a thousand, or more, per month on your Eskom bill ... all depends on how you do it and how thoroughly you understand your power usage.
    And it necessitates some lifestyle changes.

    So no, it is not as ridiculous as it sounds.
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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    Default Re: Looking for Loadshedding Solution - 5 hours

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    The answer is in post #6
    I have the T-shirt as per post 6. Yes it is ... but it depends on more than just one factor.

    Batteries are not cheap when you replace them frequently due to overuse. Nowhere here are calcs for usage?

    And it all depends on what Stage Eskom is at and when those stages impact your business.
    Once a day is fine, enough time to recharge.
    Stage 2 becomes a challenge, you can drain the batteries too low per day, reducing their cycles immensely = early replacement.
    Stage 3 and up ... forget a UPS unless you have lots of money to spend on batteries and / or a decent proper generator.
    All depends on WHEN the Stages switch you off obviously!

    So yes, I agree, Post 6 is a good point to start, but it is not the one and only idea to consider - and know that if you over tax the batteries, it is going to cost more than one budgeted.
    Last edited by the_terrible_triplett; 2020/02/12 at 11:06 PM.
    Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

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