Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter - Page 31





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  1. #601
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    The battery voltage at no load and on load can vary significantly.

    The poorer the state of the battery (condition and charge state) the bigger the difference.

    Also the high the current draw when on load the lower the voltage reading.

    Once you remove the load the battery voltage will recover quite a bit, even without charging. This is why voltage is not an easy parameter to use to "accurately" determine battery SOC.

    I think you are already doing about the best test possible - a load test.

    It used to last 4 hours, now it lasts only 1 hour. Go figure.

    -----------------------------------------

    I would suggest, take the battery to a Battery Center or other battery dealer and let them test it, but being 7 years old and from the symptoms you explain, its kaput.
    Thanks Fluffy, what threw me though was the sudden change from 4 hours to 1 hour ?
    With my very limited knowledge I expected a gradual slowing down.
    Nothing possibly to do with the change from always on charging to what I did previously which was run battery for 4 hours then charge from mains once a month?
    There is no task too simple for some people to complicate !



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  2. #602
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by douglash View Post
    1)

    Question: does the TV, soundbar, etc. draw power even when not switched on?
    If they are modern(last 5-10yrs) then probably well under 5W when switched off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morne - Skip View Post
    I have a 20A Victron, it's idle-ling on my system. NOW, I don't know if it's because the battery is also idle-ling? (200AH Gel)

    All I know is, this week we've had load shedding from 11-13.30 & again from 19-21.30

    Neither the inverter, battery or charger is breaking a sweat. I'm very happy, so much so, that i've now connected our fridge too. My system is a bit overkill for only the routers, tv, soundbar and dstv. I'm glad I took advice from the guys on this forum, it pushed me in a direction to buy a proper battery and proper charger.

    @Plunger - i'm also in the hunt for a trolley thing, the 60kg battery is a killer. Would love to see some DIY one's.
    How much was that battery? It's a nice capacity and form factor

  3. #603
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by Morne - Skip View Post
    I have a 20A Victron, it's idle-ling on my system. NOW, I don't know if it's because the battery is also idle-ling? (200AH Gel)

    All I know is, this week we've had load shedding from 11-13.30 & again from 19-21.30

    Neither the inverter, battery or charger is breaking a sweat. I'm very happy, so much so, that i've now connected our fridge too. My system is a bit overkill for only the routers, tv, soundbar and dstv. I'm glad I took advice from the guys on this forum, it pushed me in a direction to buy a proper battery and proper charger.

    @Plunger - i'm also in the hunt for a trolley thing, the 60kg battery is a killer. Would love to see some DIY one's.
    Are you using your setup as load shredding backup or as a UPS...

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  4. #604
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by Skylark View Post
    If they are modern(last 5-10yrs) then probably well under 5W when switched off.

    How much was that battery? It's a nice capacity and form factor
    It was R3800.00 excl (but I shopped around for about 2 weeks. Most places they were R5000 excl)

    https://onlineshop.gcsolar.co.za/pro...mited-6fm200g/

    Was lucky to find one, as they are used in allot of solar applications, and with corona the import has halted.
    Last edited by Morne - Skip; 2020/03/12 at 11:48 AM.

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  6. #605
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by culltony View Post
    Are you using your setup as load shredding backup or as a UPS...
    As a UPS ...

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Morne - Skip For This Useful Post:


  8. #606
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    [QUOTE=Shade;4344471][QUOTE]

    I'm just waiting for my Victron charger to arrive. I decided to rather put in the extra moola and get a 30A 3-output charger. I'll post pics when i'm finally done.



    @douglash Where did u buy and price?
    Bought from Current Automation. R3600 approx.

    Damit - Re-volt is quite a bit cheaper.
    Last edited by douglash; 2020/03/12 at 12:02 PM.
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  9. #607
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Bought these an hour ago for somebody.

    Looks like excellent value to me, given the present situation.

    Made in Europe.
    Premium Heavy Duty.
    Deep Cycle.

    12V system - Two 105's in parallel and 700W PSW (Proper commercial grade Inverter with 40A built in charger)

    105AH R2150.00
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    Last edited by Fluffy; 2020/03/12 at 01:33 PM.
    Cheers

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  10. #608
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Battery question Please....

    If one is wanting 200AH/240AH of battery power for a UPS, is it better to have one or two batteries, or does it not matter......

    To add, I am thinking along the lines of, load on one vs load split on two, longevity on one vs two (battery cycles) etc.
    Last edited by culltony; 2020/03/12 at 01:50 PM.

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  11. #609
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by culltony View Post
    Battery question Please....

    If one is wanting 200AH/240AH of battery power for a UPS, is it better to have one or two batteries, or does it not matter......
    Try and pick up a 240AH battery and report back here.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    NA TwinTurbo SuperCharger
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

  12. #610
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Try and pick up a 240AH battery and report back here.
    So the answer = 2 batteries...Thanks

    Also the 240AH I am interested in, is 63kgs
    Last edited by culltony; 2020/03/12 at 01:54 PM.

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  13. #611
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Bought these an hour ago for somebody.

    Looks like excellent value to me, given the present situation.

    Made in Europe.
    Premium Heavy Duty.
    Deep Cycle.

    12V system - Two 105's in parallel and 700W PSW (Proper commercial grade Inverter with 40A built in charger)

    105AH R2150.00
    Batteries from where Fluff?
    2010 LR Discovery 4 V8 HSE - Lifted with IIDtool, Powered by Petrol and Running on Cooper AT3 LT (new spec) 265/65/18s [Imvubu]
    2004 LR Discovery 2 Td5 GS - Hybrid Turbo, Intercooler, 33's, 2" Lift, V8 TC, Ashcroft CW&P 3.75 + ATB lockers. (Ingwe)


  14. #612
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Also want to know where that batteries come from :-)

  15. #613
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by culltony View Post
    So the answer = 2 batteries...Thanks

    Also the 240AH I am interested in, is 63kgs
    Mine is 60kg ... not a big issue, unless you plan on moving it daily

    I moved mine upstairs to the office this morning, I nearly popped a vain and shat myself at the same time

  16. #614
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    "Internal components limit current"
    This is a factor of the quality of the design. Modern MOSFETs are capable of outrageous current.

    The difference between 12 V and 48 V for electronic components is very small, but the difference between 100 A and 25 A is really huge. If the inverter is designed for 5 kW at 12 V, then it must have the internal components to handle it (but it will be much more expensive than 48 V equivalent).

    That said, for a home system, I'm a fan of higher voltage - 48 V is the low end. For normal homes, I would be comfortable at 96 V. But this is a cheapo inverter. Why not just buy an Axpert (or equivalent) charger/inverter running 48 V if you're going to install 48 V worth of batteries and a couple grand worth of charger? And add to that the fact that you want to run your house on this system. Would you trust a R1300 inverter amongst the likes of R8000+ in batteries, and a R3000 charger? Why not just spend the little extra to get a proper system? For example, use an Axpert 3 kVA charger/inverter that can bump the power from Eskom if the draw is too high, and it will charge and manage your batteries, and give you uninterrupted power. Add to that, it can take solar panels. So to me, this Changi inverter is for the occasional use, and it will fit nicely into my camping setup. I can use it off my car battery in a pinch, and I don't need to buy two batteries to run it. It's nice to have the headroom if I need it.

    BTW, I've used the inverter off my car battery to watch some Showmax. Media PC + TV + amplifier + internet = 145 W. It really works nicely. When I started the vehicle, the DC jumped to 15 V, but the AC was rock steady at 225 V (I turned off the TV and PC just in case, but now I'm confident to leave them on).
    Someone said I should use a first name, so here it is: Marc

  17. #615
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by petermoffat View Post
    a 12V inverter will have4 times higher heat loss than a 24V system, and 16 times higher than 48V on the same load. Battery discharge characteristics are also not linear, drawing 20A at 12V affects life more than twice as much as drawing 10A at 24V.
    I just want to mention here that power is current times voltage, so 10 A at 12 V is 120 W, and 2.5 A at 48 V is also 120 W, so I'm not sure how the heat factor is calculated so generally here? Unless you mean that the resistance in the components is constant for all systems? The total resistance in the high-current components should be 4 times less for a 12 V inverter than for a 48 V inverter, if the design is worth anything. I mean, a loss in a 0.01 ohm component is 1.5 V (at 150 A), which is 12.5%, which is unacceptable; you would need 4 of those components in parallel to match the 48 V putting through 37.5 A.

    Also 20 A from 12 V is the same as 10 A from 24 V, but 24 V is two batteries, so parallel them, and you have 2x 12 V with 10 A each.
    Someone said I should use a first name, so here it is: Marc

  18. #616
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    I notice from this thread that, the cheaper the inverter cost, the bigger and expensive the battery (batteries) become.

    Just an observation
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  19. #617
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrcloc View Post
    I just want to mention here that power is current times voltage, so 10 A at 12 V is 120 W, and 2.5 A at 48 V is also 120 W, so I'm not sure how the heat factor is calculated so generally here? Unless you mean that the resistance in the components is constant for all systems? The total resistance in the high-current components should be 4 times less for a 12 V inverter than for a 48 V inverter, if the design is worth anything. I mean, a loss in a 0.01 ohm component is 1.5 V (at 150 A), which is 12.5%, which is unacceptable; you would need 4 of those components in parallel to match the 48 V putting through 37.5 A.

    Also 20 A from 12 V is the same as 10 A from 24 V, but 24 V is two batteries, so parallel them, and you have 2x 12 V with 10 A each.
    Electrical loss to heat is calculated by I^2*R, For the same total power output, a 12V system has 16 times the loss as a 48V system (all thing being equal)
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  20. #618
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by petermoffat View Post
    Electrical loss to heat is calculated by I^2*R, For the same total power output, a 12V system has 16 times the loss as a 48V system (all thing being equal)
    You are quite correct. That's one of the contributors to the use of HV for transmission purposes.

    You and Mrcloc are actually saying the same thing, just you are wording it from the perspective of a heavy current engineer and Mrcloc from a light current point of view.

    Either way the losses turn to heat at a square of the Power at a given resistance. And that is achieved by voltage drop. It's a vicious circle that's perfectly round.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    NA TwinTurbo SuperCharger
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

  21. #619
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrcloc View Post
    This is a factor of the quality of the design. Modern MOSFETs are capable of outrageous current.

    The difference between 12 V and 48 V for electronic components is very small, but the difference between 100 A and 25 A is really huge. If the inverter is designed for 5 kW at 12 V, then it must have the internal components to handle it (but it will be much more expensive than 48 V equivalent).

    That said, for a home system, I'm a fan of higher voltage - 48 V is the low end. For normal homes, I would be comfortable at 96 V. But this is a cheapo inverter. Why not just buy an Axpert (or equivalent) charger/inverter running 48 V if you're going to install 48 V worth of batteries and a couple grand worth of charger? And add to that the fact that you want to run your house on this system. Would you trust a R1300 inverter amongst the likes of R8000+ in batteries, and a R3000 charger? Why not just spend the little extra to get a proper system? For example, use an Axpert 3 kVA charger/inverter that can bump the power from Eskom if the draw is too high, and it will charge and manage your batteries, and give you uninterrupted power. Add to that, it can take solar panels. So to me, this Changi inverter is for the occasional use, and it will fit nicely into my camping setup. I can use it off my car battery in a pinch, and I don't need to buy two batteries to run it. It's nice to have the headroom if I need it.

    BTW, I've used the inverter off my car battery to watch some Showmax. Media PC + TV + amplifier + internet = 145 W. It really works nicely. When I started the vehicle, the DC jumped to 15 V, but the AC was rock steady at 225 V (I turned off the TV and PC just in case, but now I'm confident to leave them on).
    Iv'e said this before, but I honestly didn't and don't want to derail a thread or play down the intention of the thread, which is to introduce and recommend what looks like a good deal.

    I cant agree more with you. For a cheap solution for occasional use at low steady power levels its fine.

    If you are looking for a Load Shedding UPS rather just do it properly, almost for sure even cheaper, with a system designed for the job.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    NA TwinTurbo SuperCharger
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

  22. #620
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    Default Re: Impressed with China Pure Sine Wave Inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by Morne - Skip View Post
    I have a 20A Victron, it's idle-ling on my system. NOW, I don't know if it's because the battery is also idle-ling? (200AH Gel)

    All I know is, this week we've had load shedding from 11-13.30 & again from 19-21.30

    Neither the inverter, battery or charger is breaking a sweat. I'm very happy, so much so, that i've now connected our fridge too. My system is a bit overkill for only the routers, tv, soundbar and dstv. I'm glad I took advice from the guys on this forum, it pushed me in a direction to buy a proper battery and proper charger.

    @Plunger - i'm also in the hunt for a trolley thing, the 60kg battery is a killer. Would love to see some DIY one's.
    What was you total outlay Morne, if you don't mind?

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