Compulsory Solar in new builds in California





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  1. #1
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    Thumbs up Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    On the stroke of midnight this New Year’s Eve, the American dream got a makeover. In California, the nation’s most populous state, every newly-built home must now come with enough solar panels to satisfy its electricity needs.
    https://www.biznews.com/wef/2020/01/...ar-power-eskom
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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    Dunno why more people here don't do the same thing. Busy with a project now where we won't be bringing Eskom onto the site. Projected 1500 homes will have to provide their own solar and wind power, sewage disposal, gas and solar water heating. And we hope to come up with an alternative to our gas needs to make us truly off grid.

    Our goverment can't provide for us, we need to stand on our own. For that matter, some ethnic groups should be showing them the middle finger on other levels as well. Let the buggars that follow them, reap the benefits of their vote.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    This should hopefully help further development of integrated solar roof systems, and bring the costs down

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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    If I was building a new home right now, I reckon it's a no-brainer for me to build it as off-grid as possible.

    Wish I had the finances to do my house right now....
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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    Can imagine the maintenance cost of those batteries exceeding the cost of savings over 5-10 years.....

    Solar, still not a viable option in South Africa. Every Johnson puts a system in to impress the Jones’s.
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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    Quote Originally Posted by bfreesani View Post
    Dunno why more people here don't do the same thing...
    Because of this... (not really the reason they not doing it here... but it should be)

    California (USA) has some of the most aggressive mandates for renewable energy production in the country. The state has a 100 percent “clean” energy mandate by 2045, with 60 percent of the state’s electricity mandated to come from renewable energy by 2030. All new houses built in the Golden State must have solar panels on the roof, and several cities (e.g., Berkeley) have banned the use of natural gas in new residential construction. Increasing amounts of wind and solar on the California grid have caused reliability problems, with millions of people forced to endure days without power to alleviate wildfire risk believed to be caused by wind damage to electrical wires and insufficient back-up power when wind and solar are not producing.

    Read all about it here... https://www.instituteforenergyresear...esired-affect/
    Last edited by MarcR; 2020/01/12 at 06:45 PM.
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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel 4x4 View Post
    Can imagine the maintenance cost of those batteries exceeding the cost of savings over 5-10 years.....

    Solar, still not a viable option in South Africa. Every Johnson puts a system in to impress the Jones’s.
    Huh
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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    When it becomes your only source of power, this conversation will be totally different.
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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    Huh
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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    Because of this... (not really the reason they not doing it here... but it should be)

    California (USA) has some of the most aggressive mandates for renewable energy production in the country. The state has a 100 percent “clean” energy mandate by 2045, with 60 percent of the state’s electricity mandated to come from renewable energy by 2030. All new houses built in the Golden State must have solar panels on the roof, and several cities (e.g., Berkeley) have banned the use of natural gas in new residential construction. Increasing amounts of wind and solar on the California grid have caused reliability problems, with millions of people forced to endure days without power to alleviate wildfire risk believed to be caused by wind damage to electrical wires and insufficient back-up power when wind and solar are not producing.

    Read all about it here... https://www.instituteforenergyresear...esired-affect/
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    Using alternative energy comes with sacrifices.
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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    Thanks button

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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    ...Using alternative energy comes with sacrifices.
    Been living off-grid for five full years with the original storage I bought , just increased the panels and inverter size.

    But then I am a Hill Billy and don't mind roughing it.
    You are 100% correct and I agree with you. It is something I will look into for myself. In the domestic ZA market it makes good sense... at "any cost" it can be made reliable.

    However, your solution at home, which I totally agree with, does not translate well into industry. There may be a case to be made for commerce on renewables, but a sacrifice in industry (mining and manufacturing,) is not what we need, and something the country cannot afford. We need to increase GDP with every resource and decision that is made in SA. Any sacrifice will result in less or negative growth, not what any South African wants...

    The California model is broken, it does not work. The US system makes it relatively easy for one to move from California to a red state and get on with one's life. Companies are moving out of California, jobs are being lost and I come back to the nasty truth, renewables is a political issue more than a technology problem...

    The South African answer to a similar directive is emigration...
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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    Quote Originally Posted by bfreesani View Post
    When it becomes your only source of power, this conversation will be totally different.
    Agreed, but what do we do when we still have a choice?

    There are similar threads on the forum, they keep popping up, but the fundamental issue stays the same... it (solar and wind) can be a solution if there are other mitigating factors, but it is not the best solution, and is in fact a poor solution that has not shown any economic success.
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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    Because of this... (not really the reason they not doing it here... but it should be)

    California (USA) has some of the most aggressive mandates for renewable energy production in the country. The state has a 100 percent “clean” energy mandate by 2045, with 60 percent of the state’s electricity mandated to come from renewable energy by 2030. All new houses built in the Golden State must have solar panels on the roof, and several cities (e.g., Berkeley) have banned the use of natural gas in new residential construction. Increasing amounts of wind and solar on the California grid have caused reliability problems, with millions of people forced to endure days without power to alleviate wildfire risk believed to be caused by wind damage to electrical wires and insufficient back-up power when wind and solar are not producing.

    Read all about it here... https://www.instituteforenergyresear...esired-affect/
    The quoted article above is incorrect and is seriously lacking context. First please consider the source, the Institute For Energy Research (IER), founded by one of the Koch brothers, hardly known to be an impartial judge of energy policy.

    Second, millions of people [2.1 million] forced to endure days without power to alleviate wildfire risk WAS due to risk, as evaluated by PGE (the largest California power company), that wind damage to electrical lines could cause dangerous fires. NOT due to insufficient back up power due to lack of solar and wind power.

    You may review the mix over power sources for today, or on those days that power was shut off to customers here: http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.aspx

    Many Californians believe that PGE has substandard infrastructure maintenance and is shutting off power to use as leverage to justify fee hikes, but this is not due to lack of wind/solar supply.

    What amount of solar is helpful in the mix of the power supply is a worthy conversation, but to say that power outages were due to increased capacity provided by solar is misleading. In California summers the demand increase is earlier in the day, due to air conditioned homes in hot areas, and solar supply matches well with this demand. In the winter then the solar supply is not as well matched to demand, but does reduce imported power through the day. All this can be seen on the www.caiso.com website.

    For those that may not know, solar on homes in California, and most of the US, are grid-tie solar, meaning that they feed power back into the grid. Most people do not pay for battery back up, as it's not cost effective. So the homes that have solar will still lose power if the power provider (PGE in most of CA) decides to shut off power for whatever reason. You can pay for battery backup, but it comes at a premium and isn't worth it to most people.

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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Rebel 4x4 View Post
    Can imagine the maintenance cost of those batteries exceeding the cost of savings over 5-10 years.....

    Solar, still not a viable option in South Africa. Every Johnson puts a system in to impress the Jones’s.
    You have not done or looked at any ROI calculations.
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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    Quote Originally Posted by CalDriver View Post
    The quoted article above is incorrect and is seriously lacking context. First please consider the source, the Institute For Energy Research (IER), founded by one of the Koch brothers, hardly known to be an impartial judge of energy policy.

    Second, millions of people [2.1 million] forced to endure days without power to alleviate wildfire risk WAS due to risk, as evaluated by PGE (the largest California power company), that wind damage to electrical lines could cause dangerous fires. NOT due to insufficient back up power due to lack of solar and wind power.

    You may review the mix over power sources for today, or on those days that power was shut off to customers here: http://www.caiso.com/TodaysOutlook/Pages/supply.aspx

    Many Californians believe that PGE has substandard infrastructure maintenance and is shutting off power to use as leverage to justify fee hikes, but this is not due to lack of wind/solar supply.

    What amount of solar is helpful in the mix of the power supply is a worthy conversation, but to say that power outages were due to increased capacity provided by solar is misleading. In California summers the demand increase is earlier in the day, due to air conditioned homes in hot areas, and solar supply matches well with this demand. In the winter then the solar supply is not as well matched to demand, but does reduce imported power through the day. All this can be seen on the www.caiso.com website.

    For those that may not know, solar on homes in California, and most of the US, are grid-tie solar, meaning that they feed power back into the grid. Most people do not pay for battery back up, as it's not cost effective. So the homes that have solar will still lose power if the power provider (PGE in most of CA) decides to shut off power for whatever reason. You can pay for battery backup, but it comes at a premium and isn't worth it to most people.
    +1 especially to your last paragraph which I was also saying.
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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    On a new home I would definitely go for a grid tie solution - the cost is not a lot, even when installing enough solar panels to power all your appliances in sunny weather. But grid-tie makes no sense for independence with regular load shedding. It needs to switch off in the absence of Eskom, like when they are doing maintenance or repairs on your line, preventing you pushing power back to them when they want a dead line. But this means you have no power during loadshedding, even if you have 6kW of solar panels on your roof.

    To overcome this I would install a change-over switch connected to a small inverter, in the range of 1.6-3kVa, with a small battery bank of two to six x 120AH batteries, or the equivalent in Lithium batteries. The inverter will have 2 functions - start up your solar panels again to provide power during a sunny day during an Eskom outage, and provide enough power at night for your lights, fans, TVs, fridges etc. You would obviously turn off aircons, geysers and not operate your stoves and oven while running off the inverter at night.


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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeml View Post
    On a new home I would definitely go for a grid tie solution - the cost is not a lot, even when installing enough solar panels to power all your appliances in sunny weather. But grid-tie makes no sense for independence with regular load shedding. It needs to switch off in the absence of Eskom, like when they are doing maintenance or repairs on your line, preventing you pushing power back to them when they want a dead line. But this means you have no power during loadshedding, even if you have 6kW of solar panels on your roof.

    To overcome this I would install a change-over switch connected to a small inverter, in the range of 1.6-3kVa, with a small battery bank of two to six x 120AH batteries, or the equivalent in Lithium batteries. The inverter will have 2 functions - start up your solar panels again to provide power during a sunny day during an Eskom outage, and provide enough power at night for your lights, fans, TVs, fridges etc. You would obviously turn off aircons, geysers and not operate your stoves and oven while running off the inverter at night.
    Grid tied does not make sense for home use where most consumption is when the sun is not available.

    When going grid tied at a business, ROI is getting to about 4yrs now. When electricity prices go up, ROI would be sooner.
    Last edited by Monkey-D; 2020/01/12 at 09:27 PM.
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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    Quote Originally Posted by CalDriver View Post
    The quoted article above is incorrect and is seriously lacking context. First please consider the source, the Institute For Energy Research (IER), founded by one of the Koch brothers, hardly known to be an impartial judge of energy policy...
    So you provide an alternative viewpoint, the site for the guys creating the policy I disagree with... I cannot say that I am convinced by the viewpoint of the people who set the policy, just because they made it.

    On the About: page "The California ISO Board of Governors reviews and approves the annual ISO budget, shapes policies and approves grid planning and market design changes". I'm sure you will agree that is also not an impartial source.

    They go on to say... "The shift to a clean, efficient and modern grid is essential to California's economy and its environment." Nothing could be further from the truth...how does one quantify clean, efficient and modern? What is needed is reliable cheap energy within the constraints of the pollution measures. Now, those pollution/emissions limits will make sense in a local measurable environment weighing up the economic and environmental health benefits. That is not something ISO addresses.

    Next...

    If the California plan was so good, energy would be more readily available and cheaper, not less reliable and more expensive.

    As much as I like real figures/numbers, I am going to put forward this opinion... I will add the source and you can get the numbers to back it up yourself...

    California has lived on the trope of being the hub of technology startups and innovation for decades. California’s economic success has long been touted and celebrated, none more so than the technology gold rush in the Bay Area.
    But despite California’s seemingly never-ending economic growth, the Golden State is now being recognized as one of the worst places to do business in the nation.

    The whole story here... https://www.pacificresearch.org/cali...e-poor-scores/

    In my opinion, the non scientific environmental policies and legislation in California are closely tied to the business climate in the state. It is an arguable point that most individuals are not as well off economically (in California) as they were five years ago, or compared to red states. There are many factors at play here, and that is why I am just stating it as a discussion point, worth looking into, unless one is a "climate crisis" proponent, in which case there seems to be no room for discussion.
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    Default Re: Compulsory Solar in new builds in California

    California is a joy. The Democratic Party has run the state into the ground. The monthly cost of being hooked up for water, sewer, trash, gas, and electricity is outrageous. Then it starts to get much worse when I use the services. Even cell phones, landline phones, fast internet, and cable tv is problematic if you don't get creative. Many of the companies have let quality of service take a dive (but nothing like SA fortunately). On top of that, the homeless, crime and drug issues are beginning to remind me of, you may have guessed, SA. For the 1st time, California population growth turned into a negative number in 2019.

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