Best way to negotiate a axle twister with AWD





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  1. #1
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    Default Best way to negotiate a axle twister with AWD

    Please do share any of your tips on how you best negotiate that AWD killer called an axle twister, last time i tried going straight through it at hennops i failed haha but think i just need some solid advice from an AWD magician that knows how to fluke these systems in doing what you want them to. The AWD system in question is Haldex 5. Its got 50/50 split in offroad mode but unfortunately as i understand it that does not help you a whole lot with axle twisters.

    Thanks all

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    Default Re: Best way to negotiate a axle twister with AWD

    Quote Originally Posted by XC90 View Post
    Please do share any of your tips on how you best negotiate that AWD killer called an axle twister, last time i tried going straight through it at hennops i failed haha but think i just need some solid advice from an AWD magician that knows how to fluke these systems in doing what you want them to. The AWD system in question is Haldex 5. Its got 50/50 split in offroad mode but unfortunately as i understand it that does not help you a whole lot with axle twisters.

    Thanks all
    yep, the haldex system is for all intents and purposes the best AWD torque splitting system there is. But itís all down to how the software is set up to use the system. If your vehicle has 50/50 split locked in off-road mode, then you have the same kind of toque split that a any hardcore 4x4 would have. But in axle twisters, the first most important thing is wheel articulation, and that is where most AWD systems fall short. (Itís got nothing to do with the drive train though, this is all suspension related).

    if you canít keep at least 3 wheels on the ground at any given time, you will lose momentum on a cross axle. That is when you need to rely on difflocks, (which you donít have), or a limited slip diff (Volvo might have one at the rear, not sure) or the Traction Control system.

    So first off, you need to read the cross axles and pick a line that will as far as possible keep the most number of wheels on the ground as often as possible. When you canít keep at least 3 wheels on the ground, you will need to rely on the traction control. I am not familiar with the Volvo system, but Iím guessing itís pretty similar to the Freelander/Discovery sport system. A slow and steady approach, with a constant steady throttle input should get you through. Even if the vehicle comes to a halt momentarily, keep the throttle input steady, and soon enough the TC should brake the wheels that are off the ground, and send drive to the wheels with traction. nornally this happens pretty quickly (like in less than a second), but if you start flapping the throttle or climbing on the brakes, the system will cut out, and you wonít get the benefit of the TC.

    then, please be careful. Modern Softroaders are actually have drive trains that are a lot more capable than the rest of the vehicle can handle, and especially with serious cross axles, you can easily end up dropping into holes that will cause you bumper or body panel damage long before you run out or traction

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    Default Re: Best way to negotiate a axle twister with AWD

    Quote Originally Posted by RPiet View Post
    yep, the haldex system is for all intents and purposes the best AWD torque splitting system there is. But itís all down to how the software is set up to use the system. If your vehicle has 50/50 split locked in off-road mode, then you have the same kind of toque split that a any hardcore 4x4 would have. But in axle twisters, the first most important thing is wheel articulation, and that is where most AWD systems fall short. (Itís got nothing to do with the drive train though, this is all suspension related).

    if you canít keep at least 3 wheels on the ground at any given time, you will lose momentum on a cross axle. That is when you need to rely on difflocks, (which you donít have), or a limited slip diff (Volvo might have one at the rear, not sure) or the Traction Control system.

    So first off, you need to read the cross axles and pick a line that will as far as possible keep the most number of wheels on the ground as often as possible. When you canít keep at least 3 wheels on the ground, you will need to rely on the traction control. I am not familiar with the Volvo system, but Iím guessing itís pretty similar to the Freelander/Discovery sport system. A slow and steady approach, with a constant steady throttle input should get you through. Even if the vehicle comes to a halt momentarily, keep the throttle input steady, and soon enough the TC should brake the wheels that are off the ground, and send drive to the wheels with traction. nornally this happens pretty quickly (like in less than a second), but if you start flapping the throttle or climbing on the brakes, the system will cut out, and you wonít get the benefit of the TC.

    then, please be careful. Modern Softroaders are actually have drive trains that are a lot more capable than the rest of the vehicle can handle, and especially with serious cross axles, you can easily end up dropping into holes that will cause you bumper or body panel damage long before you run out or traction

    Ah i see, ok my first problem i believe is reading the line, ill have to pay some attention there and then my other problem is i flap the throttle or stop and then try again and then start to give it more and more power as i become progressively more embarrased, so the key to making the system work is to be consistent and linear. Got it.

    Think when i get better tyres ill join a forum event if you guys do those and try it out in real life with advice on hand then atleast

    Im quite aware of the bumpers yes especially the volvos sharp chin, i see they have a oem bashplate, will probably buy that accesory as insurance one day as well as a alu engine guard, better safe than sorry

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    Default Re: Best way to negotiate a axle twister with AWD

    Quote Originally Posted by XC90 View Post
    Ah i see, ok my first problem i believe is reading the line, ill have to pay some attention there and then my other problem is i flap the throttle or stop and then try again and then start to give it more and more power as i become progressively more embarrased, so the key to making the system work is to be consistent and linear. Got it.

    Think when i get better tyres ill join a forum event if you guys do those and try it out in real life with advice on hand then atleast

    Im quite aware of the bumpers yes especially the volvos sharp chin, i see they have a oem bashplate, will probably buy that accesory as insurance one day as well as a alu engine guard, better safe than sorry
    JJJ,the guy with awealth of knowledge on softies.Im sure he'll be around soon for a few more tips.
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    Default Re: Best way to negotiate a axle twister with AWD

    Quote Originally Posted by XC90 View Post
    Please do share any of your tips on how you best negotiate that AWD killer called an axle twister, last time i tried going straight through it at hennops i failed haha but think i just need some solid advice from an AWD magician that knows how to fluke these systems in doing what you want them to. The AWD system in question is Haldex 5. Its got 50/50 split in offroad mode but unfortunately as i understand it that does not help you a whole lot with axle twisters.

    Thanks all

    Have your wheels on the highest ground. At Hennops you can basically straddle the holes (I guided a couple of vehicles throught this section that had open diffs - eg no Difflock or Traction Control.)

    Try and look for a line where you will have 4 wheels on the ground. If not at least both front or bot rear wheels.

    Driving like this is actually the correct way...

    Here are some videos of Hennops:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln2Tm1tGtfs
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu9SNl3sCaU
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slwIn54yVF4
    Toyota Fortuner 2.8 GD6 4x4 MT
    Bush Lapa Miskruier 586
    Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFS..._as=subscriber
    4x4 Competency - Unit Standard 254135

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    Default Re: Best way to negotiate a axle twister with AWD

    Quote Originally Posted by XC90 View Post
    Ah i see, ok my first problem i believe is reading the line, ill have to pay some attention there and then my other problem is i flap the throttle or stop and then try again and then start to give it more and more power as i become progressively more embarrased, so the key to making the system work is to be consistent and linear. Got it.

    Think when i get better tyres ill join a forum event if you guys do those and try it out in real life with advice on hand.
    It looks like one of the new XC90s, so it is really just down to technique and tyres. Even my Freelander 2 with road tyres sukkeled under these conditions.

    The clip below is from the softroader outing at The Wedge, end of last year.

    All vehicles educational and very demonstrative in terms of manual, CVT, auto transmissions, tyres and mass differences but the XC60 run should be most relevant to your experience.

    Going "as slowly as possible" initially, the car ran out of momentum and came to a standstill on the slope. It was not possible to move off again, and Renier threatened me that if I did not stop making dust, there would be trouble. Well, he did not really say that, but I could read it on his face - through a momentary gap in the dust .

    Rolling back, not really changing the line by much, the car easily drove out there, still at low speed. Can't watch it at work to confirm but I seem to recall you can hear one wheel briefly spinning and almost immediately being braked by the TC.

    So if it stops, roll back and approach steadily.

    https://youtu.be/9auv-8F9jjg

    Edit:
    Note that the lack of traction on the left rear wheel was not due to the tyre type/tread but due to lack of articulation of the rear suspension. Yes, the tyre was on the ground but only lightly. If one could get weight on it - heavy person, that side in the boot - it should pull off. This is where you should take note of the characteristics of your car and adapt your approach and driving technique.

    Have a look at the SSVs on Dakar and how stable the vehicle body remains while the wheels are going crazy. Then note where the springs are - outboard.

    A McPherson strut, as on a Freelander 2 or Evoque, generally gives you better articulation - and ride - than the inboard spring setup on the Volvo. And the Tiguan, Pajero, Discovery Sport, etc.

    In terms of suspension travel, if the Volvo was a dog - it is not; it is a really nice car - wanting to relieve itself by lifting a leg, it would pee on its leg. Adding some weight in the boot should turn it into a bitch, pushing away nicely from a squatting position.

    PS: Pirelli ATR available for around R2700 at TyreMart Menlyn.
    Last edited by JJJ; 2020/01/13 at 02:50 PM.
    If my post insulted you, wonder where the smiley went .

    Johnie
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    Default Re: Best way to negotiate a axle twister with AWD

    Quote Originally Posted by JJJ View Post
    It looks like one of the new XC90s, so it is really just down to technique and tyres. Even my Freelander 2 with road tyres sukkeled under these conditions.

    The clip below is from the softroader outing at The Wedge, end of last year.

    All vehicles educational and very demonstrative in terms of manual, CVT, auto transmissions, tyres and mass differences but the XC60 run should be most relevant to your experience.

    Going "as slowly as possible" initially, the car ran out of momentum and came to a standstill on the slope. It was not possible to move off again, and Renier threatened me that if I did not stop making dust, there would be trouble. Well, he did not really say that, but I could read it on his face - through a momentary gap in the dust .

    Rolling back, not really changing the line by much, the car easily drove out there, still at low speed. Can't watch it at work to confirm but I seem to recall you can hear one wheel briefly spinning and almost immediately being braked by the TC.

    So if it stops, roll back and approach steadily.

    https://youtu.be/9auv-8F9jjg

    Edit:
    Note that the lack of traction on the left rear wheel was not due to the tyre type/tread but due to lack of articulation of the rear suspension. Yes, the tyre was on the ground but only lightly. If one could get weight on it - heavy person, that side in the boot - it should pull off. This is where you should take note of the characteristics of your car and adapt your approach and driving technique.

    Have a look at the SSVs on Dakar and how stable the vehicle body remains while the wheels are going crazy. Then note where the springs are - outboard.

    A McPherson strut, as on a Freelander 2 or Evoque, generally gives you better articulation - and ride - than the inboard spring setup on the Volvo. And the Tiguan, Pajero, Discovery Sport, etc.

    In terms of suspension travel, if the Volvo was a dog - it is not; it is a really nice car - wanting to relieve itself by lifting a leg, it would pee on its leg. Adding some weight in the boot should turn it into a bitch, pushing away nicely from a squatting position.

    PS: Pirelli ATR available for around R2700 at TyreMart Menlyn.
    Wow thanks this was a awesome video and some great advice hehe when are they having another one of these events?? Looks like great fun.

    I also reside in pretoria so if you ever want to go test your XC60 somewhere, im always available to tag along and learn tricks and discuss XC upgrade related ideas. Would like to get an aluminium protection plate made for mine
    Last edited by XC90; 2020/01/15 at 04:20 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Best way to negotiate a axle twister with AWD

    Hi XC90,

    Glad it helped. Considering how many XC90s there are - admittedly, not as many as Toyotas, but they have been sold here since 2003 - you must just be about be the first owner ever to join the forum. After all, the forum name XC90 was still available . Welcome!

    The link: https://youtu.be/EcLDDR3z99s is part of a trail I've done in Mlilwane, Swaziland over December with my car, to go test this:

    Name:  Tunnel 3.jpg
Views: 277
Size:  535.2 KB

    Most enjoyable, but a walk-in-the-park compared to Sani pass. But I'll see middle April what Sani is like, when we plan to go up for breakfast.

    Regarding the sump guard, I thought the slip-up by Volvo to supply a "cardboard" one for the XC60 was a once-off, but it seems that they are somewhat lacking in this department for the XC90 as well?
    I commented in Post #1 of the Volvo XC60 review thread: https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/showthread.php/307259-Volvo-XC60-Review under Underbody Protection on this shortcoming.

    Could you post an image of what is underneath at the moment?

    I could fix it on the XC60 with a 4mm Al plate, but it required the creation of an additional sub-structure to attach it to.
    Last edited by JJJ; 2020/01/16 at 11:12 AM.
    If my post insulted you, wonder where the smiley went .

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    180kW/350Nm (1500 - 4800 rpm)

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    Default Re: Best way to negotiate a axle twister with AWD

    Just like they said ^

    With the emphasis being that even if the vehicle comes to a halt, DONT STOP.

    So in other words, exactly the opposite way of driving a "normal older school 4x4" - where In the old days, you wouldn't go any where ( at best), or dig yourself in (at worst).

    Having said that, some traction control systems do have their limitations, like you can see in this soft roaders day we had a while back: https://youtu.be/dQoXPd5hU_w

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    Default Re: Best way to negotiate a axle twister with AWD

    Very interesting thread, I would like to know what would be the correct setting for a Duster 4wd when doing a axle twister? I know my system has a lock mode where you can also disable TC and then I also have a auto mode. I would think to lock it and leave TC on as the TC would be switched off for more sand driving environments to avoid getting stuck. Is the correct?

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    Default Re: Best way to negotiate a axle twister with AWD

    I must say, I really like the XC90. I think it may be a good replacement for mommy's D4 when that day dawns.

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    Default Re: Best way to negotiate a axle twister with AWD

    Quote Originally Posted by Yster1979 View Post
    Very interesting thread, I would like to know what would be the correct setting for a Duster 4wd when doing a axle twister? I know my system has a lock mode where you can also disable TC and then I also have a auto mode. I would think to lock it and leave TC on as the TC would be switched off for more sand driving environments to avoid getting stuck. Is the correct?
    The general thinking, actually is to take the traction control off (depending on the type) as it cuts power to the spinning wheel, where actually you want it to keep providing the power so that when it gets braked, the power will go to the other side. But like I said, it depends on a few factors. Lookout for the next Softroader day and we can play with the different settings...

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