Dumb battery charging question





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  1. #1
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    Default Dumb battery charging question

    Feeling embarrassed to ask this , but if I connect two of the following batteries in parallel what is the biggest dc-dc charger I can use? 20 or 40A charger?

    https://bluenova.co.za/wp-content/up...V-22-280Wh.pdf

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    Default Re: Dumb battery charging question

    Quote Originally Posted by oradba69 View Post
    Feeling embarrassed to ask this , but if I connect two of the following batteries in parallel what is the biggest dc-dc charger I can use? 20 or 40A charger?

    https://bluenova.co.za/wp-content/up...V-22-280Wh.pdf
    I would use the 40A and the BMS systems in the batteries will look after and protect them nicely.

    This is an advantage of decent Lithium based batteries that is often overlooked.
    Cheers

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    Default Re: Dumb battery charging question

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    I would use the 40A and the BMS systems in the batteries will look after and protect them nicely.

    This is an advantage of decent Lithium based batteries that is often overlooked.
    Thanks Fluffy appreciate.
    Now to choose between Victron and National Luna dc-dc.

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    Default Re: Dumb battery charging question

    Quote Originally Posted by oradba69 View Post
    Thanks Fluffy appreciate.
    Now to choose between Victron and National Luna dc-dc.
    I've always been a NL fan in terms of their fridges. Over the last year or 2 I became a big Victron fan.

    I came to realize with Victron you really get what you pay for, what I like is the continuous improvement which they provide threw firmware updates. I also like that Victron stuff is totally modular, so you can only buy the bits you need and build your system exactly the way you want. Want solar, add solar, want 230V, add 230V etc. I know others will disagree with me on this since a lot of people prefer the "everything in one box solution". Thing with that "one box solution" is, if that box fails more often than not your entire system fails, with a modular system you put together yourself, one component can fail but the other bits will still keep going.

    Remember if you parallel those batteries it's very important that the cables between them are exactly the same length. Also find out if you can interface the 2 batteries together so that 1 BMS manages them both. With the bigger Blue Nova batteries this is possible and highly recommended when you parallel.
    That spec sheet doesn't say, but these batteries can usually handle quite a lot of charge current, so maybe double check with Blue Nova.

    The Victron Orion smart DC-DC looks like a very nice product and you can even buy a small one now and add another one in parallel at a later stage if you feel you need more juice.
    I don't drink water, unless it's been through a brewery first.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Dumb battery charging question

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    I've always been a NL fan in terms of their fridges. Over the last year or 2 I became a big Victron fan.

    I came to realize with Victron you really get what you pay for, what I like is the continuous improvement which they provide threw firmware updates. I also like that Victron stuff is totally modular, so you can only buy the bits you need and build your system exactly the way you want. Want solar, add solar, want 230V, add 230V etc. I know others will disagree with me on this since a lot of people prefer the "everything in one box solution". Thing with that "one box solution" is, if that box fails more often than not your entire system fails, with a modular system you put together yourself, one component can fail but the other bits will still keep going.

    Remember if you parallel those batteries it's very important that the cables between them are exactly the same length. Also find out if you can interface the 2 batteries together so that 1 BMS manages them both. With the bigger Blue Nova batteries this is possible and highly recommended when you parallel.
    That spec sheet doesn't say, but these batteries can usually handle quite a lot of charge current, so maybe double check with Blue Nova.

    The Victron Orion smart DC-DC looks like a very nice product and you can even buy a small one now and add another one in parallel at a later stage if you feel you need more juice.
    I would have liked to fit one of these:
    https://bluenova.co.za/wp-content/up...V-44-570Wh.pdf
    but I need about 15mm which I just dont have and therefore have to look at two of the smaller batteries. They will be stuck together with double sided tape so connector cables will be very short and equal lengths.
    Yes, I have stated somewhere else I am a big Victron fan (got 2 of their inverters and a mppt) and am seriously looking at the Smart TR 12/12 30
    https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...50-400W-EN.pdf
    I like the bluetooth connection thing and I know it will be an excellent product, but....
    My issues are:
    1. Space. I am very limited with underbonnet space and the Victron is quite a big unit (80mm thick). victron also only recommend vertical installation with 10cm at the bottom and top free for installation. I dont have that.
    2. It is IP43 certified.
    3. Does not show amps(for now).
    4. No solar connection though not an issue for me.

    Enter the new NL 40amp dc-dc:
    https://www.nationalluna.com/product...or-and-charger
    What I like about it in comparison to the Victron.
    1. More amps
    2. Locally made and I like to support local. Also always had good service from NL.
    3. Size is more manageable and it can be installed horizontal or vertical and no specs for clearance.
    4. Remote display that can be fitted permanently, instead of having to connect via bluetooth all the time.
    5. IP67 certified
    6. Does have a mppt built in.

    Cant seem to find a price on the NL, but sure it will be more expensive.

    Now looking for someone in Centurion area that can supply and install this in my Disco?

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    Default Re: Dumb battery charging question

    Quote Originally Posted by oradba69 View Post
    I would have liked to fit one of these:
    https://bluenova.co.za/wp-content/up...V-44-570Wh.pdf
    but I need about 15mm which I just dont have and therefore have to look at two of the smaller batteries. They will be stuck together with double sided tape so connector cables will be very short and equal lengths.
    Yes, I have stated somewhere else I am a big Victron fan (got 2 of their inverters and a mppt) and am seriously looking at the Smart TR 12/12 30
    https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...50-400W-EN.pdf
    I like the bluetooth connection thing and I know it will be an excellent product, but....
    My issues are:
    1. Space. I am very limited with underbonnet space and the Victron is quite a big unit (80mm thick). victron also only recommend vertical installation with 10cm at the bottom and top free for installation. I dont have that.
    2. It is IP43 certified.
    3. Does not show amps(for now).
    4. No solar connection though not an issue for me.

    Enter the new NL 40amp dc-dc:
    https://www.nationalluna.com/product...or-and-charger
    What I like about it in comparison to the Victron.
    1. More amps
    2. Locally made and I like to support local. Also always had good service from NL.
    3. Size is more manageable and it can be installed horizontal or vertical and no specs for clearance.
    4. Remote display that can be fitted permanently, instead of having to connect via bluetooth all the time.
    5. IP67 certified
    6. Does have a mppt built in.

    Cant seem to find a price on the NL, but sure it will be more expensive.

    Now looking for someone in Centurion area that can supply and install this in my Disco?
    That NL unit looks like a beast. It can operate up to 85íC, where as the Orion-Tr can only go up to 55íC.
    Do check that your alternator can safely push out an additional 40A if youíre going for the NL beast.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Dumb battery charging question

    Quote Originally Posted by oradba69 View Post
    I would have liked to fit one of these:
    https://bluenova.co.za/wp-content/up...V-44-570Wh.pdf
    but I need about 15mm which I just dont have and therefore have to look at two of the smaller batteries. They will be stuck together with double sided tape so connector cables will be very short and equal lengths.
    Yes, I have stated somewhere else I am a big Victron fan (got 2 of their inverters and a mppt) and am seriously looking at the Smart TR 12/12 30
    https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...50-400W-EN.pdf
    I like the bluetooth connection thing and I know it will be an excellent product, but....
    My issues are:
    1. Space. I am very limited with underbonnet space and the Victron is quite a big unit (80mm thick). victron also only recommend vertical installation with 10cm at the bottom and top free for installation. I dont have that.
    2. It is IP43 certified.
    3. Does not show amps(for now).
    4. No solar connection though not an issue for me.

    Enter the new NL 40amp dc-dc:
    https://www.nationalluna.com/product...or-and-charger
    What I like about it in comparison to the Victron.
    1. More amps
    2. Locally made and I like to support local. Also always had good service from NL.
    3. Size is more manageable and it can be installed horizontal or vertical and no specs for clearance.
    4. Remote display that can be fitted permanently, instead of having to connect via bluetooth all the time.
    5. IP67 certified
    6. Does have a mppt built in.

    Cant seem to find a price on the NL, but sure it will be more expensive.

    Now looking for someone in Centurion area that can supply and install this in my Disco?

    Ok I hear you, tough one but I know the NL won't be a bad product.

    But...
    You said under bonnet?
    Did you see the Blue Nova batteries operating temperature is only up to 45 degrees for charging and 65 degrees for discharging? Also remember the cycle life ratings they give is at 25 degrees so with higher temperatures you will see degraded life.

    I don't know what the rest of your setup is like, but do you really have to install these under bonnet, is there no other way? Personally I won't install expensive LiFePO4 batteries and a DC-DC under bonnet. Past experience with a CTEK showed me that DC-DC chargers don't like heat and I also know batteries don't like heat at all.
    I don't drink water, unless it's been through a brewery first.
    You probably heard people saying Africa is not for sissies. Well, neither is it for wussy equipment.
    Man who dies with most gear wins!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Dumb battery charging question

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    Ok I hear you, tough one but I know the NL won't be a bad product.

    But...
    You said under bonnet?
    Did you see the Blue Nova batteries operating temperature is only up to 45 degrees for charging and 65 degrees for discharging? Also remember the cycle life ratings they give is at 25 degrees so with higher temperatures you will see degraded life.

    I don't know what the rest of your setup is like, but do you really have to install these under bonnet, is there no other way? Personally I won't install expensive LiFePO4 batteries and a DC-DC under bonnet. Past experience with a CTEK showed me that DC-DC chargers don't like heat and I also know batteries don't like heat at all.
    I know.
    I had a battery box in the back, but hated it, maybe worth having a look again.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Dumb battery charging question

    Quote Originally Posted by oradba69 View Post
    I know.
    I had a battery box in the back, but hated it, maybe worth having a look again.

    With these batteries your battery box will be much lighter and probably also smaller. You are planning to spend a lot of money here, you are going to be unhappy with the performance of your system and destroy those expensive batteries with the heat.

    If you really want to go under bonnet then go back to less expensive lead acid batteries, or have a serious look at a battery box again.

    LiFePO4 batteries is awsome, just another tip, investing in a good battery monitor is a very good idea if that's your thing. With these batteries you can't really gauge capacity by only checkking voltage as with lead acid batteries. Our Blue Nova 4K will stay above 13V for ever before dropping below that, I tried to figure it out and my rough guesstimate so far is that 13V means around 50% DOD, I must still invest in a Victron BMV712 or something.
    I don't drink water, unless it's been through a brewery first.
    You probably heard people saying Africa is not for sissies. Well, neither is it for wussy equipment.
    Man who dies with most gear wins!

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Dumb battery charging question

    Quote Originally Posted by bigboy529 View Post
    With these batteries your battery box will be much lighter and probably also smaller. You are planning to spend a lot of money here, you are going to be unhappy with the performance of your system and destroy those expensive batteries with the heat.

    If you really want to go under bonnet then go back to less expensive lead acid batteries, or have a serious look at a battery box again.

    LiFePO4 batteries is awsome, just another tip, investing in a good battery monitor is a very good idea if that's your thing. With these batteries you can't really gauge capacity by only checkking voltage as with lead acid batteries. Our Blue Nova 4K will stay above 13V for ever before dropping below that, I tried to figure it out and my rough guesstimate so far is that 13V means around 50% DOD, I must still invest in a Victron BMV712 or something.
    Siggghhh.
    Yes something like this:
    https://www.nationalluna.com/product/power-pack-dc25
    With this:
    http://www.bluenova.co.za/files/data...V-104-1.3k.pdf (like the bluetooth monitoring on this)

    Is probably the wise option.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Dumb battery charging question

    Quote Originally Posted by oradba69 View Post
    Siggghhh.
    Yes something like this:
    https://www.nationalluna.com/product/power-pack-dc25
    With this:
    http://www.bluenova.co.za/files/data...V-104-1.3k.pdf (like the bluetooth monitoring on this)

    Is probably the wise option.


    The bluetooth monitoring is very nice yes, similar to what Victron has on their Lithiums, I didn't know Blue Nova also do it now.

    Even though you didn't like the battery box solution before, this will be the smarter option yes. I bet a big reason why you didn't like the battery box was because of the weight, this battery box will be less than 15kg.
    I don't drink water, unless it's been through a brewery first.
    You probably heard people saying Africa is not for sissies. Well, neither is it for wussy equipment.
    Man who dies with most gear wins!

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    Default Re: Dumb battery charging question

    Is it wise to charge the Blue Nova lithium battery with the NL battery charger? I canít find lithium compatibility on the NL fact sheet.
    thanks

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Dumb battery charging question

    Quote Originally Posted by lomomuc View Post
    Is it wise to charge the Blue Nova lithium battery with the NL battery charger? I canít find lithium compatibility on the NL fact sheet.
    thanks
    Not from what I understand.

    Have just gone through this exercise changing from lead acid to lithium in my ballies cruiser, had to do a bit of research to figure out everything.

    Went with a Victron CT-Li intelligent relay, just waiting to have it installed, currently borrowing a rather expensive "buck boost" 25A DC to DC charger.

    https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-...verter-25a-50a

    Link for your perusal.

    It works very well, we have a Victron BMV700 as our monitoring device.
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    Default Re: Dumb battery charging question

    Quote Originally Posted by lomomuc View Post
    Is it wise to charge the Blue Nova lithium battery with the NL battery charger? I canít find lithium compatibility on the NL fact sheet.
    thanks
    Lithium is catered for.

    https://www.nationalluna.com/wp-cont...ser-Manual.pdf

    Battery type selection is described on page 9 of the manual

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