Help needed in diagnosing differential problem





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  1. #1
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    Default Help needed in diagnosing differential problem

    Hi Guys.

    I need some assistance in diagnosing a problem.
    I do suspect that it is the rear differential on a steed 3, 2008 4x4 with 72k on the odo.
    I do know that t is on the rear side.


    what I cannot understand is why it suddenly started....

    in any case.
    all was well with no problems.
    in the past (about 4 years) I had to replace the side shaft wheel bearings.
    there always has been a clicking noise on departure or quick changing of gears. "as I understand it, back lash noise"
    there is no oil leaks on the diff or the side shaft bearing caps etc.
    there is no looseness on the side shaft "wheels etc"

    so last week I drove the vehicle when a strange noise occurred.
    I eventually found that a universal joint on the drive shaft was worn out.
    "more stiff then loose"
    the universal joint was replaced and all others were checked, they seemed good.

    the drive shaft was refitted and on a test drive, the initial horrible sound was away but it was found that when gearing down, especially to 2nd from 3rd gear that another noise would become apparent.

    describing this noise.....well I don't know how to describe it correctly.

    there is no humming in the differential at all.
    the oil drain plug was removed as well as the oil.
    the drain plug has some steel filings on it but not a crap load full.
    my research indicates that this is normal over time.

    no broken pieces came with the magnet out the diff.

    I have read that some say, notches is normal on some diffs.
    when turning the diff it is not completely smooth.
    the left side does turn easier then the right side, but could it be the planetary gear which makes turning it stiffer?.

    the diff does not have a cover plate so one cannot just loosen it and inspect it.
    I would need to remove the side shafts and then only will I be able to remove the complete diff.

    and it being December...………………...where will I get help if parts is needed.

    if it is the diff, to whom do I need to take it, being situated in Heidelberg Gauteng.

    attached is a couple of pics.
    please advise if more detail is needed.

    dankie baie
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    Last edited by willem wikkel spies; 2020/01/18 at 10:36 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Help needed in diagnosing differential problem

    it seems lik point 1 on this link, a whirring sound

    https://www.differentials.com/diagnosing-differential-problems/

    Whirring noise only while decelerating at any or all speeds is most likely caused by bad pinion bearings or loose pinion bearing preload, and almost never by bad ring and pinion gears.


  3. #3
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    Default Re: Help needed in diagnosing differential problem

    the amount of oil in teh diff was not low.
    when i fitted my pinkie in teh hole some oil will cover my tip when folded down.
    so i do not think that it ran on oil not being enough.

    if we jack the vehicle up and run it in gear, the noise can be heard.
    so even when not under load.
    it is very apparent when gearing down when the clutch engages

    oja, this is a open diff, not a lsd!!!
    Last edited by willem wikkel spies; 2019/12/22 at 07:19 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Help needed in diagnosing differential problem

    How did you check the remaining u-joints? U-joint can feel fine and you cannot pickup play by hand while in the meantime they are ruined. I think you have a problem with the prop shaft. U-joint problems will always seems diff related when jacked up and run in gear. Get the prop shaft on a bench at a prop shaft repair shop
    Last edited by grips; 2019/12/24 at 06:14 AM.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Help needed in diagnosing differential problem

    Come get some Uniglide from me. That should at least tie you over until everybody open up again.

    Then when everybody is back at work, we can pull the sideshafts and the centre portion.
    LC 78 Troopie 1HD-FTE
    Uniglide
    +27 zero eight 2 four 95 9252

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Help needed in diagnosing differential problem

    thanks for the replies so far.

    i was never convinced that it is the diff.
    comes to think of it, the center bearing on the prop shaft........it could be that too.

    I have been in 3x minds regarding it.
    is it gearbox?
    prop shaft?
    or diff?

    it all just started suddenly for no reason.
    the wet weather, on universals/ center bearing....could have had a influence in the matter.

    it is very apparent when slowing down, into 2nd gear and when one starts leaving the clutch and it starts engaging, the noise is much louder then just coasting.

    Henris, i think i need to come over.
    still working at a rate of knots this time of the year.
    might need to be over a weekend.
    let me know about your availability asb.

    I used to use high veld prop shafts in Alberton but they closed down.
    so who is there who does things right?

    oja, geseende kersfees aan almal.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Help needed in diagnosing differential problem

    Remove the rear propshaft and repeat the test. If the notchiness remains, its the diff. Likely the spider gears.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Help needed in diagnosing differential problem

    so last week I drove the vehicle when a strange noise occurred.
    I eventually found that a universal joint on the drive shaft was worn out.
    "more stiff then loose"
    the universal joint was replaced and all others were checked, they seemed good.

    the drive shaft was refitted and on a test drive, the initial horrible sound was away but it was found that when gearing down, especially to 2nd from 3rd gear that another noise would become apparent.


    if we jack the vehicle up and run it in gear, the noise can be heard.
    so even when not under load.
    it is very apparent when gearing down when the clutch engages


    I'm gonna clutch at straws here ...

    I see from the Isuzu manuals the propshaft orientation (ie. where the flanges mate) is to be marked before removal then re-installed with that same orientation. Apart from this being "good practice" is there a particular reason ? Could incorrect orientation cause the symptoms the OP is describing ?


    if we jack the vehicle up and run it in gear, the noise can be heard.

    Using a screwdriver / short length of pipe can you isolate where the noise is coming from ?


    dlsclaimer: use jack stands, chock non-driven wheels, etc, engine at idle, screwdriver/pipe not in vertical position, no loose clothing that could get wrapped around the propshaft, etc. (not to be oorlams but I've seen people do some really strange things)

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Help needed in diagnosing differential problem

    Guys,

    just a update on this tread.

    it is a 4x4 so I removed the rear prop shaft and drove a test run in 4x4 high.
    the noise was still there.

    so I removed the front prop shaft and again did a test run.
    the noise is still there.

    thus it is, transfer, gearbox or clutch related.

    when slowing down in 3rd gear, the noise is not very clear.
    when doing it in 2nd gear the noise is much clearer.
    when doing it in 1st gear the noise is very clear.

    on each test in the gears the frequency is higher, 3rd gear low frequency, 2nd gear higher, 1st gear very high.

    so I do suspect that it might be the clutch.
    could it be the springs on the clutch plate which are starting to wear out.

    there is no rattling when the vehicle is at idle.

    will see if I can isolate the noise further

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Help needed in diagnosing differential problem

    Gearbox input shaft bearing.
    Transfer case chain?
    Last edited by grips; 2019/12/30 at 05:34 AM.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Help needed in diagnosing differential problem

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    Gearbox input shaft bearing.
    Transfer case chain?
    sorry for the late reply.
    vodacom network is down.

    gearbox input shaft i understand
    maar transfer case chain?
    will search it and see what i come up with.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Help needed in diagnosing differential problem

    Hi if you need any advise I suggest take your vehicle to Intergear Vereeniging.

    they are the specialist go to there website and make a appointment if needed.

    Hope it helps

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Help needed in diagnosing differential problem

    thanks for the replies so far.

    well at least it is one of 3x.
    not willing to drive it that far.
    spoke to the main mechanic at GWM edenvale.
    seems it is the input shaft bearings that are on the way out.
    that is the only problems they did encounter with the 4x4 gearbox.

    so gearbox needs to come out.
    edenvale is also 60km from me.

    at least I have 2x right hands.
    so it will not be a struggle.

    just looking for time to do it, now that everyone is back at the office...

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Help needed in diagnosing differential problem

    so side shafts are off.
    transfer gearbox is off.

    just need to removed the gearbox.

    when that is done, i will have a loom first at the clutch plate and pressure plate.
    if all is good there, then only will i look at the gear box.

    obviously whe it is out, will i turn teh input shaft and feeel if all is good etc.
    just to get a idea where the problem possibly is.

    so if it is gearbox related or transfer

    to whom do i take it.
    who do you know, who can assist with it.
    joburg area.

    help asb

    dankie

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Help needed in diagnosing differential problem

    just a update on this matter.

    the pilot bearing was lekker worn, bearing was dry and noisy.

    omega gearbox repairers in Nigel assisted me.

    the gearbox was opened and inspected, no fault could be found.
    all bearings were in good shape and gears too.

    decided to have new bearings fitted.

    a inspection on the transfer case would have cost R 1200-00

    clutch plate was worn a bit, and decided to have a new lining fitted.
    also new springs were fitted on the clutch plate.

    fly wheel had some hot spots so had it skimmed with the pressure plate.

    got a new pilot bearing and fitted it all on Saturday last week.

    gearbox oil filled was 80w90 castrol, could not get 75.

    the transfer case is chain driven, and uses power steering fluid.

    well filled it all up with about 2 lieters of 80w140 differential oil.

    I also fitted a new rear crank shaft seal.

    its been running since Sunday had to wait for the cases silicone to completely dry.

    all has been well since fitting it all back.

    a little shudder on pull away, but if you know how to pull away, no shudder is present.

    also the strange noise is missing.
    so was it the pilot bearing which was worn out?

    cant be, as the noise was present after it was in gear and clutch already out.
    at that stage the pilot bearing is not running.

    ag wat, lets see.

    will keep you guys in the loop.

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