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  1. #21
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Also check if the inverter will operate at all when their is no grid power. Many will not. IE during load shedding your power will cut no matter your solar or battery state.
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  2. #22
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Ag nee now I'm all confused as well.
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  3. #23
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Ag nee now I'm all confused as well.
    Stadig oor die klippe!
    You must ask yourself what you want from the system. Once you know that then look for the solution that best fits that criteria.
    For me I am so anti batteries that I didn't want those if I could get away from them. So that meant I needed the grid to be the 'battery'...

  4. #24
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    This is the best explanation I have seen explaining the different types of configurations.

    A must read for everybody thinking of Solar. Even the experts can learn from this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6DVS8lLgjw
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
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  5. #25
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Although the specs on this inverter refers to grid tie they have a different meaning of it. This portion of the specs is perhaps the key that it is not a grid tied as we understand grid tie.

    I think some on line sellers that split their inverters between back up and grid tied is a good place to start to know what kind it is. May be also if it has no battery it could be grid tied.

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    Last edited by ekkekan; 2019/12/04 at 08:40 PM.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Mackay View Post
    Stadig oor die klippe!
    You must ask yourself what you want from the system. Once you know that then look for the solution that best fits that criteria.
    For me I am so anti batteries that I didn't want those if I could get away from them. So that meant I needed the grid to be the 'battery'...
    I want to start off with PV providing some power during sunlight, and ESKOM taking up the slack in the day and at night, so no batteries to start off.
    I'll add PV panels until I get enough Vlots and Maps and Twats (volts amps and watts) for daytime, and then at some stage steal (oops buy) enough batteries to go off grid.

    I need a simple sentence (and maybe also a stick drawing picture) explaining how to get through that sequence without having to reinvest in inverters and controllers and stuff.
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  7. #27
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Fluffy did share a great video which is in line with my choice even if it uses 2 inverters for the full system. As the Solis and panels have a pay back period of only 3 years is a long time and a number of new inverters will be designed.

    Off grid still seems to be expensive to replace batteries. Only if we have to pay a high basic fee will off grid make financial sense.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Quote Originally Posted by ekkekan View Post
    Fluffy did share a great video which is in line with my choice even if it uses 2 inverters for the full system. As the Solis and panels have a pay back period of only 3 years is a long time and a number of new inverters will be designed.

    Off grid still seems to be expensive to replace batteries. Only if we have to pay a high basic fee will off grid make financial sense.
    I'm paying around R7k per month, is that enough?
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  9. #29
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    This is the best explanation I have seen explaining the different types of configurations.

    A must read for everybody thinking of Solar. Even the experts can learn from this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6DVS8lLgjw
    I watched this video last night. Very informative, thanks for this.

    I cant help to wonder though. Using the setup as explained in the video, would it not help to switch the PV panels back to the Axpert if the eskom power failed ?
    From the diagram it seems like if eskom power failed the PV panels are disconnected. Especially for days where power has gone off for longer than a day you may want to charge the batteries up again or aid the batteries with the PV panels to make them last longer (AH and Cycle Life wise.)

  10. #30
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Quote Originally Posted by ekkekan View Post
    Fluffy did share a great video which is in line with my choice even if it uses 2 inverters for the full system. As the Solis and panels have a pay back period of only 3 years is a long time and a number of new inverters will be designed.

    Off grid still seems to be expensive to replace batteries. Only if we have to pay a high basic fee will off grid make financial sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    I'm paying around R7k per month, is that enough?
    People tend to forget that rural EL is much more expensive than urban EL.

    Just running a rural house on Landrate 4 was for me R1200/m (4yrs ago) before consumption
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  11. #31
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Quote Originally Posted by Prof View Post
    People tend to forget that rural EL is much more expensive than urban EL.

    Just running a rural house on Landrate 4 was for me R1200/m (4yrs ago) before consumption
    Is there a rule of thumb for the difference??

  12. #32
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Quote Originally Posted by SBSP View Post

    I cant help to wonder though. Using the setup as explained in the video, would it not help to switch the PV panels back to the Axpert if the eskom power failed ??
    My idea would also be to use a change over switch to use some of the panels to the Axpert when grid is off during the day. One must just be careful that the max volts is not exceeded. The Solis can work on up to 550V input. Some Axpert can only use 4 panels in series.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Its way easier to just put a change over switch/contactor on the incoming mains and just switch to grid-tie inverter when the power fails.

    A 550V DC automatic switch switch/contactor will probably cost about R10K and be as unreliable as hell.

    Or buy a Goodwe and solve all the problems at once.

    --------------------------

    For what it is worth I am sitting in Stage 4 load shedding with a functional home and the neighbors are in the dark right now.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
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    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

  14. #34
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post

    --------------------------

    For what it is worth I am sitting in Stage 4 load shedding with a functional home and the neighbors are in the dark right now.
    Ja Ja rub it in 😀, i also have stage 4 now and i have a fully disfunctional home right now.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Quote Originally Posted by Kershmeister View Post
    Hi All

    This has been a plan for the past 3-4 years and finally seems to be coming to fruition.

    I'm in the fortunate position that i can get good pricing from Ellies electronics on the bulk if not all of my components.

    350w panels @ R1999 ex https://www.ellies.co.za/product/can...ar-panel-330w/ (Yes it's a 330w but link for reference)

    5kva inverter @ R10500 ex https://www.ellies.co.za/product/5kw-hybrid-inverter/

    150ah AGM @ R3800 or 200ah AGM @ R4270 or I can ask about the Lithium Ion https://www.ellies.co.za/product/dyn...module-2-4kwh/ which I found elsewhere https://www.solarpanelenergy.co.za/p...um-ion-battery for reference


    Those are three of the big expenses at good rates. The rest will almost be associated ancillaries and labour.


    My current situation is around 10-12 units per day during summer and maybe around 15-18 in winter with full time domestic, the missus and I, a 2 year and 4 year old. with my evening
    I have a preheat configuration on my geysers (150lt roof mount Solar into 150lt ceiling mount on mains)
    Ideally I would like to be able to try and get this 150lt heated by the solar PV during the day (13:00-14:00 is lunch and load could effectively be dedicated).
    All other major appliances are A, A+ or A++ rated.
    Heating in winter is also closed combustion wood burning and cooking is gas hob electric oven.

    But I'm getting a bit bogged down and hesitant on one or two things.
    Am I over capitalising going with a 5kva? I've always been a fan of buying into growth potential and head room for as the kiddos get bigger.
    Been told by Ellies rep that minimum I need 8 panels for this inverter! Does this make sense, as I seen similar ready made kits advertised with 6 panels of smaller capacity.

    Please guys any thoughts and reasonable considerations that should be made here.
    Do I get a bit smaller or will I later regret it.

    Thank's all
    ~~~~~
    I’ve read most of the responses and held back before answering. Fluffy is the fundi expert on stuff like this and a ‘retired’ professional really nice guy too. My absolute total advice to you is don’t stuff around with Mickey Mouse cheapo crap and trying to do it yourself. get the right people involved.
    For two years I sweated blood trying to get correct info and like you went round and round in circles trying desperately to get info for a decent system. I knew what gear to buy but the most important bit which most people don’t talk about is that that getting the right gear is probably the easier part of the process. Eventually in desperation and distrusting of all the BS I was hearing I withdrew my interest as I saw a cockup of humongous proportions coming up and costing us a fortune. Long story short, we live in Durbanville and a someone with some brain had seen the many questions and concerns I had and they contacted me. Ever suspicious I cross examined the guy about what company and reputation exactly was behind them.
    Long story short, we decided to work with them and although we expanded the scope of our original installation I can honestly say there’s no way in hell the average home enthusiast is going to put up a professional system that is safe and works correctly and balanced. With our system, the main components being 12 x Canadian 350W PV panels, Goodwe hybrid 5MW inverter and 2 x Pylontech 3500 MWh storage batteries our system works 100% of our expectations and covered all the Load Shedding we’ve had without us even being aware it was happening. Our Pay As You Go meter now uses only around R200 / month compared to R1500 / before our installation
    What I saw with the installation from the guys from our installers, Dorman Projects, it’s way too complicated for the average guy to do correctly.
    Small things like having your PV panels 200mm lifted above roof tile height and all the PV cables running in thick solid steel Bosal pipes through the ceiling and walls to the inverter to prevent catastrophic potential fires from extepremely high voltages. Then too the very necessary Certificate of Compliance and registration with local municipality are more reasons to get it done right, first time.
    You really don’t your house going up in a cloud of smoke from your cheapo Ellies PV panels or risk your family in any way. And another benefit is that regardless of where I am I can see on my Smart phone or iPad Apps exacltly what my system is producing, where it’s drawing power from: PVs, Batteries, or Grid then schedule our use of appliances: jacuzzi, ovens, stove, tumble drier, washing machine, dishwasher etc accordingly. Take care don’t skimp on your and family well being
    Last edited by TeriosGuy; 2019/12/07 at 12:28 AM.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Wheres that thanks button gone.

    I have said this a dozen times. Getting some panels and an inverter and batteries is just the start of your troubles.

    The "stuff"supporting the panels, mechanically and electrically can easily start costing as much as the panels if done properly.

    A simple thing like just programming the system can be daunting, even to a professional. It takes weeks of "fiddling" and trial and error to get right if you dont understand the little intricacies.

    The amount of times I have seen a DIY system where the owner is happy as punch, but he doesnt even know his system is incorrect and is either not working to its full potential or doing things it shouldnt be doing. (The biggest culprit being the subject of this thread - not understanding the difference between grid tied and grid connected, ie Axpert)
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    NA TwinTurbo SuperCharger
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

  17. #37
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Quote Originally Posted by SBSP View Post
    Ja Ja rub it in 😀, i also have stage 4 now and i have a fully disfunctional home right now.
    Its really easy and cheap to equip yourself for load shedding.

    The challenge is to do it in such a way that it is expandable.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    NA TwinTurbo SuperCharger
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

  18. #38
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    Lightbulb Re: getting started on grid tied

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Wheres that thanks button gone.

    I have said this a dozen times. Getting some panels and an inverter and batteries is just the start of your troubles.

    The "stuff"supporting the panels, mechanically and electrically can easily start costing as much as the panels if done properly.

    A simple thing like just programming the system can be daunting, even to a professional. It takes weeks of "fiddling" and trial and error to get right if you dont understand the little intricacies.

    The amount of times I have seen a DIY system where the owner is happy as punch, but he doesnt even know his system is incorrect and is either not working to its full potential or doing things it shouldnt be doing. (The biggest culprit being the subject of this thread - not understanding the difference between grid tied and grid connected, ie Axpert)
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Its really easy and cheap to equip yourself for load shedding.

    The challenge is to do it in such a way that it is expandable.
    ~~~~~~
    You’re so right Fluffy.
    We started 10 years ago with only a 1,000W basic inverter with one 100kwH deep cycle battery which is still working just fine (will soon list both on Gumtree as we don’t ever need them again) for years Inteied to get the right information on Google and anyone who pretended to know something. Most didn’t actuahave much clue though. We’re now so delighted with our Solar Array system and our neighbors keep calling wanting details. As Fluffy says getting everything to talk to each other and work properly is a nightmare; our installers were here for days getting ours tweaked and it’s all totally perfect how
    Last edited by TeriosGuy; 2019/12/07 at 12:37 AM.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Teriosguy - Thanks for this post.

    I researched solar about a year ago and found an install could be extremely complicated. One needs really professional electricians and installers - not easy to find.

    As you said there are high voltages more than enough to burn down your house and the fire hazard of batteries is another issue which was worrying.

    And there appeared to be little certainty on what safety standards would finally be adopted nation-wide.

    Home solar is definitely not a simple project such as buying panels and an inverter and linking those to your switchboard.

    And when it can supply Eskom power is cheap much cheaper than my solar system could have produced and it would have taken years to pay for itself.

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  20. #40
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    Default Re: getting started on grid tied

    Quote Originally Posted by SBSP View Post
    Ja Ja rub it in 😀, i also have stage 4 now and i have a fully disfunctional home right now.
    Full marks for being honest! (But I see the time is after 10pm...time to go to bed!)

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