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Thread: F1 - 2020

  1. #1601
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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    All considered, I quite enjoy the scandals, fingerpointing between the teams, protests, team principals now insulting each other, threats of leaving the sport etc, etc. It adds to the spectacle and the less they like each other, hopefully the harder they will race.

    F1 has become so technical that what is happening was probably unavoidable.

    For myself the standout question for the remainder of this season remain - can Max challenge for the title? My heart gives him a 5 /10 chance and my mind 2/10.

    As Roelf remarked, nothing that is happening currently is new, it has always been this way.

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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by RoelfleRoux View Post
    This is exactly what happened to Ferrari last year.
    The engineers find the tiniest little loophole and figure out ways to exploit it. The FIA then steps is to block that hole. This has been happening since the start of motorsport.
    I beg to differ. The way I read it prevents teams from using a different map between quali and race.

    All the teams use different maps between quali and race so Merc won't be the only one affected.


    Drivers will just hold overtake on quali all the time.

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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by RoelfleRoux View Post
    This is exactly what happened to Ferrari last year.
    The engineers find the tiniest little loophole and figure out ways to exploit it. The FIA then steps is to block that hole. This has been happening since the start of motorsport.
    True.

    However, there are quite a few pro-merc-"fans" that will call this jealousy or that their engineers are the most genius.
    I recall the early 2000's when he scudeira had to put up with rule changes to slow them down as well.

    Renault also comes to mind in quick succession.
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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    F1 has always had teams a step or 2 in front of the rest that would dominate for a few years and then fade again, to be replaced by the next.

    Only thing happening now is that MB does not seem to fade.

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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    What a crap thing to do.

    Great Merc, everytime you engineer a breakthrough we will implement rules so you cant use it.

    FIA dumb call at its best. Pathetic!
    Uhm, how is this different from the FIA banning Red Bull's double diffuser arrangement in 2011 and then again raising the exhaust exit height in 2012 to stop Red Bull using their blown diffuser arrangement?

    Or what about the FIA changing the way points are scored in 2003 from the first 6 places (10,6,4,3,2,1) to the first 8 places (10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1) after Schumacher ran away with the 2002 season?

    Or how about active suspension being banned in 1994 following Williams ruling the roost in 1992 and 1993?

    How about Brabham's fan car being banned because it was up to 2 seconds a lap faster than anything else even though it was deemed to be legal by scrutineers. This car did not even get to complete its first season when everyone caved under complaints from Lotus and other teams.

    This is the way F1 has been run since forever, why do Merc fans feel the need to complain now?

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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by JS-V8 View Post
    Uhm, how is this different from the FIA banning Red Bull's double diffuser arrangement in 2011 and then again raising the exhaust exit height in 2012 to stop Red Bull using their blown diffuser arrangement?

    Or what about the FIA changing the way points are scored in 2003 from the first 6 places (10,6,4,3,2,1) to the first 8 places (10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1) after Schumacher ran away with the 2002 season?

    Or how about active suspension being banned in 1994 following Williams ruling the roost in 1992 and 1993?

    How about Brabham's fan car being banned because it was up to 2 seconds a lap faster than anything else even though it was deemed to be legal by scrutineers. This car did not even get to complete its first season when everyone caved under complaints from Lotus and other teams.

    This is the way F1 has been run since forever, why do Merc fans feel the need to complain now?
    Im not a fanatical merc fan. Im not a fan of those historical bans either.

    Im a believer that good results should be rewarded.

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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    I beg to differ. The way I read it prevents teams from using a different map between quali and race.

    All the teams use different maps between quali and race so Merc won't be the only one affected.


    Drivers will just hold overtake on quali all the time.
    Marius,
    The FIA stated in their letter that they can't inspect/check engine compliance with all the different modes. They need consistency to be able to check.
    Remember when they banned traction control. The engineers still found ways to hide it in the software. The FAI finally had to pick on a supplier and all teams had to buy that software off "the shelf".

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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques_Nel View Post
    hmmm, Not sure I agree with this.

    Why penalize a team on top to bring the other teams more in line? Really, it's like bringing down the Exam pass rate to 30% so that you have more pupils passing the year. Doesn't make sense at all. The other teams will need to pull finger and improve. That's obviously the aim of F1, the pinnacle of motor sport, to drive innovation, performance and development.
    Surely it is very difficult to improve your powerunit if the FIA ties your one hand behind you back?

    This is also one of the main reasons for Merc's continued domination, yes they caught a march on everyone in 2014 (and kudos to them), but subsequent to this this FIA's regulations have limited the amount of changes opposing teams can make to their engines, thus limiting their ability to catch up.

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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by JS-V8 View Post
    Uhm, how is this different from the FIA banning Red Bull's double diffuser arrangement in 2011 and then again raising the exhaust exit height in 2012 to stop Red Bull using their blown diffuser arrangement?

    Or what about the FIA changing the way points are scored in 2003 from the first 6 places (10,6,4,3,2,1) to the first 8 places (10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1) after Schumacher ran away with the 2002 season?

    Or how about active suspension being banned in 1994 following Williams ruling the roost in 1992 and 1993?

    How about Brabham's fan car being banned because it was up to 2 seconds a lap faster than anything else even though it was deemed to be legal by scrutineers. This car did not even get to complete its first season when everyone caved under complaints from Lotus and other teams.

    This is the way F1 has been run since forever, why do Merc fans feel the need to complain now?
    Hi JS-V8
    Everyone knows by now I support Merc, however, my comments/opinion/observations were made in general, not to favor my team or any other team on the grid. As a fan of the sport in general, I want to see innovation and competition between all involved and my opinion is, the FIA is standing guard to stop that from happening. You always need a team at the top who pushes the boundaries legally because that will motivate the others to up their game. Just like Ferrari/ McLaren / Renault etc in the yester-years. Imagine we didn't have an innovative, dominating team...We would still be watching Ford Model-T's running around the circuit.

    Personally, this is a double edged sword because directives like this also stops the "less stronger teams" as well, because now they are also unable to perform better, qualify better, have better race results, have more sponsorship money and money from the FIA at the end of the season. It could be that one of Merc's modes are still stronger than the other teams on the grid and this will then be a null-n-void exercise. Directives like this is forcing teams to look at ways to circumvent/bend the rules all an attempt to remain competitive and a winning team. Do we really want a sporting environment/society where people are starting to become less law-abiding just for the sake of being competitive, because that is what is happening now? I think not. I want to see honest development, progress and racing and I am sure you and all other fans out there wants that as well.

    Technology is progressing at a massive rate these days and it seems as if there are to many restrictions being put in place to allow F1 (and motorsport in general) to develop alongside it.

    Sure, I agree there must be restrictions / regulations / laws in place to control certain aspects of the sport, but to actively restricting it is unacceptable.
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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    The regulations will affect each and every team.
    Somebody just hopes it will affect MB more.
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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    BrawnGP was unstoppable - due to innovative-loophole-based-solutions...

    BrawnGP also conquered the turbo-hybrid era........ oh sorry - thats Merc
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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques_Nel View Post
    Hi JS-V8
    Everyone knows by now I support Merc, however, my comments/opinion/observations were made in general, not to favor my team or any other team on the grid. As a fan of the sport in general, I want to see innovation and competition between all involved and my opinion is, the FIA is standing guard to stop that from happening. You always need a team at the top who pushes the boundaries legally because that will motivate the others to up their game. Just like Ferrari/ McLaren / Renault etc in the yester-years. Imagine we didn't have an innovative, dominating team...We would still be watching Ford Model-T's running around the circuit.

    Personally, this is a double edged sword because directives like this also stops the "less stronger teams" as well, because now they are also unable to perform better, qualify better, have better race results, have more sponsorship money and money from the FIA at the end of the season. It could be that one of Merc's modes are still stronger than the other teams on the grid and this will then be a null-n-void exercise. Directives like this is forcing teams to look at ways to circumvent/bend the rules all an attempt to remain competitive and a winning team. Do we really want a sporting environment/society where people are starting to become less law-abiding just for the sake of being competitive, because that is what is happening now? I think not. I want to see honest development, progress and racing and I am sure you and all other fans out there wants that as well.

    Technology is progressing at a massive rate these days and it seems as if there are to many restrictions being put in place to allow F1 (and motorsport in general) to develop alongside it.

    Sure, I agree there must be restrictions / regulations / laws in place to control certain aspects of the sport, but to actively restricting it is unacceptable.
    I absolutely agree Jacques, I want to see innovation and see it rewarded.

    The Brabham fan car example is a case in point, Lotus introduced the ground effect car and it swept all before it, due to the flat 12 Alfa engine in the Brabham, Gordon Murray couldn't apply ground effect effectively so he had to think outside the box, and boy did he do just that. But then, because the teams complained about the car, it was withdrawn after only a few races.

    Merc invested loads of money and engineering time and effort in building their advantage and they should be able to reap the benefits. All I ask is that the other teams be afforded the freedom to throw money and effort at the problem and try to catch up (fairly).

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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by JS-V8 View Post
    I absolutely agree Jacques, I want to see innovation and see it rewarded.

    The Brabham fan car example is a case in point, Lotus introduced the ground effect car and it swept all before it, due to the flat 12 Alfa engine in the Brabham, Gordon Murray couldn't apply ground effect effectively so he had to think outside the box, and boy did he do just that. But then, because the teams complained about the car, it was withdrawn after only a few races.

    Merc invested loads of money and engineering time and effort in building their advantage and they should be able to reap the benefits. All I ask is that the other teams be afforded the freedom to throw money and effort at the problem and try to catch up (fairly).
    The problem lies in your last sentence. The FIA is on a mission to reduce costs, so if you can't allow money to be thrown at the leader's advantage, you have to trim the leader's wings. A sad situation for a purist like me, but necessary for viewer numbers and money.

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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by RoelfleRoux View Post
    The problem lies in your last sentence. The FIA is on a mission to reduce costs, so if you can't allow money to be thrown at the leader's advantage, you have to trim the leader's wings. A sad situation for a purist like me, but necessary for viewer numbers and money.
    I hear you Roelf, unfortunately it has been shown that the hybrid V6 powerplants have increased costs tremendously.

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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by JS-V8 View Post
    I hear you Roelf, unfortunately it has been shown that the hybrid V6 powerplants have increased costs tremendously.
    I agree.
    Lockdown showed us that regulations don't always attain their objectives.

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    Quote Originally Posted by N0ddy View Post
    BrawnGP was unstoppable - due to innovative-loophole-based-solutions...

    BrawnGP also conquered the turbo-hybrid era........ oh sorry - thats Merc
    The reason why Jensen Button will always be a bit of a "lukewarm" World Champ to me. Think it was mooted before in this thread......

    Here's to hoping that sky-high heatwave conditions will settle over the GP this weekend.........have to clip the wings on those Black Arrows somehow. (and they look a lot better and menacing in black..... not Red Pretty.... but still very good looking. Come to think of it, whilst they chopping and changing the rules, why not give 50 points at the beginning of the season to the team with the prettiest car. That way Ferrari will at least lead the championship until the 3rd race.)

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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    Interesting facts about the Pit Lane speed limits:


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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    Motivation for removing"Party Mode"

    https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...eview_Standard

    "
    To assist policing. The FIA has to police a number of power unit parameters through very detailed data analysis, and it is felt that this directive will help them achieve that – and have more confidence of power unit legality as a result. Of course, a consequence of the move would be to clip the wings of the power unit which shows the biggest power boost between normal and qualifying modes. At this point that's believed to be Mercedes, with Ferrari showing the least difference between the two modes. Renault and Honda are quite similar in between those two extremes.


    The move would save expensive development programmes for Honda, Renault and Ferrari at a time when the FIA is very actively trying to close down cost drivers. As a downside, it would reduce the differences in power at any given moment between two dicing cars. Often the passing we see in hybrid F1 era comes from one driver forcing another to use up his energy store defensively, then having none left as the attacking driver deploys."
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    Default Re: F1 - 2020

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques_Nel View Post
    Motivation for removing"Party Mode"

    https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...eview_Standard

    "
    To assist policing. The FIA has to police a number of power unit parameters through very detailed data analysis, and it is felt that this directive will help them achieve that – and have more confidence of power unit legality as a result. Of course, a consequence of the move would be to clip the wings of the power unit which shows the biggest power boost between normal and qualifying modes. At this point that's believed to be Mercedes, with Ferrari showing the least difference between the two modes. Renault and Honda are quite similar in between those two extremes.


    The move would save expensive development programmes for Honda, Renault and Ferrari at a time when the FIA is very actively trying to close down cost drivers. As a downside, it would reduce the differences in power at any given moment between two dicing cars. Often the passing we see in hybrid F1 era comes from one driver forcing another to use up his energy store defensively, then having none left as the attacking driver deploys."
    I don’t see anything wrong with that.
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