Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??





Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 69
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bethlehem
    Age
    52
    Posts
    8,162

    Default Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    I've searched, read up a bit, etc etc, and cant really decide if I got the Answer.

    This is NOT intended to compare brands etc etc please, let's just discuss and debate.

    1) Let's take a SFA 4x4 Vehicle with the best known Traction Control System out there but without Diff Locks, I have read and heard about the newer Defender, but dunno is there is a similar Vehicle that is known to have a better system in this configuration?? Remember, SFA and Traction Control WITHOUT any Difflock(s).

    2) Then a Vehicle, also SFA, without TC but with a well known/proven Rear Diff Lock ONLY, no TC or other goodies......something like the Patrol comes to mind?

    3) And finally a SFA vehicle with both Front and Rear Lockers (only, NO TC or other goodies)......something like the 76 with 1HZ comes to mind?

    ........Lets also take more or less the same Year Model, say 2010?? That would mean we're pitting a 2010 Puma 110 against a 2010 Patrol 3,0 Diesel against a 2010 LC 76 with the 1HZ.

    .......Same Driver with an adequate lever of experience in all 3 cars.

    ........Same Test Route or Track.

    What I'm trying to say here........lets take X Make of Vehicle, sommer call it "X".

    Now put 1) above on X, or 2), or the 3).

    Which makes X the most competent in

    1) Rock crawling
    2) Mud
    3) Snow?
    4) Sand



    Again Guys please this is not a brand comparison, its a "4x4 aid goodies" comparison.
    Of COURSE I have a Bad Habit. I take Tea at Three (Mick Jagger)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Robertson/ Larissa, Greece
    Age
    55
    Posts
    4,982

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    For me SFA with front and rear selectable lockers is the ultimate. I don't like TC because it is not instantaneous, no matter how good it is and there is always a degree of wheelspin. TC also brings more electronics into play. It makes off roading easier for the not to experienced, but give me mechanical lockers any day.
    We can't change the wind but we can set our sails

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bethlehem
    Age
    52
    Posts
    8,162

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    I'm no 4x4 expert, but here's my take:

    1) TC is nice with sharp turns etc on hard surfaces I think, and power gets to the wheel that has traction, even if only 1 (felt like it this weekend).

    2) What bothers me is the sudden "kicking in" of the TC to the traction wheel.......may damage something in the long run??

    3) Front Lockers = heavy steering.

    4) I think TC should work better in mud, dunno?

    In the 4 scenarios above, I'd say:

    1) Rock crawling..................Lockers
    2) Mud...............................TC
    3) Snow?............................TC
    4) Sand..............................not sure, I'd say just 4x4?? Dont know sand driving.
    Of COURSE I have a Bad Habit. I take Tea at Three (Mick Jagger)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hillrise, Kempton Park
    Age
    65
    Posts
    1,697

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    Petri

    My experience:

    1 Traction control only (Such as fitted in the Pajero)
    - driver has to really put attention to the ride as he must never lift his foot off the pedal during a rocky axle twister. This is good if you are experienced, but I don't like it.

    2 DL on rear axle with 4x4 (such as most LDVs today
    - very good for the normal 4x4 climbs and most drivers are happy with this arrangement. We do not (or very seldom) do the extreme stuff (because mommy is usually around and blows in the neck)

    3 Front and rear DL without TC (like my old 1981 G-wagen)
    - this was the ultimate configuration at the time

    4 Front and rear DL with TC (like my new 2016 G-wagen)
    - Interesting that as soon as the center diff is engaged the TC disengage. Someone in Germany knows what they are doing
    - This brings the new car back to 1981standard when traversing extreme conditions
    - This keeps the TC in mode during normal driving to assist the driver in difficult/dangerous on-road situations

    I hope you follow (and why I like what I have)
    Last edited by JohanMaree; 2019/11/11 at 09:50 AM.
    Isuzu 300 d-tec
    MB Gwagen G350 Bluetec
    Nissan NP300 2.4 4x4
    BMW R1200GS & GSA

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Not too far from Pofadder
    Posts
    524

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanMaree View Post
    Petri

    My experience:

    1 Traction control only (Such as fitted in the Pajero)
    - driver has to really put attention to the ride as he must never lift his foot off the pedal during a rocky axle twister. This is good if you are experienced, but I don't like it.

    2 DL on rear axle with 4x4 (such as most LDVs today
    - very good for the normal 4x4 climbs and most drivers are happy with this arrangement. We do not (or very seldom) do the extreme stuff (because mommy is usually around and blows in the neck)

    3 Front and rear DL without TC (like my old 1981 G-wagen)
    - this was the ultimate configuration at the time

    4 Front and rear DL with TC (like my new 2016 G-wagen)
    - Interesting that as soon as the center diff is engaged the TC disengage. Someone in Germany knows what they are doing
    - This brings the new car back to 1981standard when traversing extreme conditions
    - This keeps the TC in mode during normal driving to assist the driver in difficult/dangerous on-road situations

    I hope you follow (and why I like what I have)
    This confirms what I have seen, TC helps make things easier up to the point where it becomes extreme and then it starts to interfere, thats when you need to be able to lock all diffs and use your brain.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bethlehem
    Age
    52
    Posts
    8,162

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    Shot Guys, thanks so far.
    Of COURSE I have a Bad Habit. I take Tea at Three (Mick Jagger)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bethlehem
    Age
    52
    Posts
    8,162

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    Only thing that "bothers" me on TC:

    As Johan said, you must keep the RPM's up, that's fine, anyone will quickly get a feel for that on a trail.

    But that sudden power sent to the one or 2 wheels with traction..........wo'nt that maybe cause damage on a spline or a shaft or whatever?? Sorry I'm stupid with mechanical terms, hope you understand what I'm babbling.
    Of COURSE I have a Bad Habit. I take Tea at Three (Mick Jagger)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    watmaakitsaak
    Age
    42
    Posts
    458

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    Ek het al n paar van hierdie ouens se vids gekyk, dalk nie heeltemal van toepassing nie, maar noggal insiggewend:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_lk9SxEuDg

    Ek verstaan ook nie altyd wat hulle sÍ nie,so, ek kyk maar die prentjies.
    Last edited by Andre Vorster; 2019/11/11 at 11:45 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Randfontein
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,506

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    Quote Originally Posted by Petri Oosthuizen View Post
    Only thing that "bothers" me on TC:

    As Johan said, you must keep the RPM's up, that's fine, anyone will quickly get a feel for that on a trail.

    But that sudden power sent to the one or 2 wheels with traction..........wo'nt that maybe cause damage on a spline or a shaft or whatever?? Sorry I'm stupid with mechanical terms, hope you understand what I'm babbling.
    In most cars TC is operated via your ABS system so the spinning wheel will get braked and the power transferred to the other wheel via the diff.
    Yes sure it puts a bit more strain on the diff and other components especially if the other wheel has a LOT of traction and a big tyre etc.
    But many cars have operated like this for many years without problems, I think its just as bad for a locked diff to turn on surfaces with high grip.
    2000 Land Rover Discovery II TD5
    2019 Suzuki Baleno 1.4 GLX platkar

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Bethlehem
    Age
    52
    Posts
    8,162

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    Quote Originally Posted by FWM View Post
    In most cars TC is operated via your ABS system so the spinning wheel will get braked and the power transferred to the other wheel via the diff.
    Yes sure it puts a bit more strain on the diff and other components especially if the other wheel has a LOT of traction and a big tyre etc.
    But many cars have operated like this for many years without problems, I think its just as bad for a locked diff to turn on surfaces with high grip.
    Hoor wat jy se.......mens dink al die power gaan met 'n major "CLUNK" na daai een wiel toe en kan die sideshaft of diff of whatever strip, maar ja, dis dalk nie so "violent" as wat mens (of ek) dink nie. Kan nie wees nie, anders het daar al BAIE goete gebreek.

    So..........the most "reliable" aid here would be rear Difflock only, but (debatably) also the least "competent"??
    Of COURSE I have a Bad Habit. I take Tea at Three (Mick Jagger)

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Not too far from Pofadder
    Posts
    524

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    I had an FJ Cruizer with an experienced driver and an LC76 Cruizer with an unexperienced driver on my trail at the same time.
    I was co pilot in the LC76 and it could comfortably crawl over obstacles so slowly that I had time to give the driver instructions and then eplain to him what was hapening while we were crawling over.

    Both vehicles did fine, but the FJ had more trouble on most of the obstacles and the driver had to use more of his buttons electronic aids and revs while in the LC76 it was simple, you engaged difflocks, put it in the lowest gear and let it idle through while you follow the instructions of you guide.

    The drive train of the FJ was working harder for sure.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Kathu
    Age
    58
    Posts
    8,768

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    Quote Originally Posted by Bex View Post
    I had an FJ Cruizer with an experienced driver and an LC76 Cruizer with an unexperienced driver on my trail at the same time.
    I was co pilot in the LC76 and it could comfortably crawl over obstacles so slowly that I had time to give the driver instructions and then eplain to him what was hapening while we were crawling over.

    Both vehicles did fine, but the FJ had more trouble on most of the obstacles and the driver had to use more of his buttons electronic aids and revs while in the LC76 it was simple, you engaged difflocks, put it in the lowest gear and let it idle through while you follow the instructions of you guide.

    The drive train of the FJ was working harder for sure.
    My exact experience with the 76 Cruiser on Road to Hell and a few other extreme obstacles I have done. I read the trail and flip the lockers on and off as needed. Same can be said on dunes, lockers is a huge aid in serious cross axles.

    I have yet to see a TC system that work in serious dune driving. TC works nice in rocky conditions.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Randfontein
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,506

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    Quote Originally Posted by Petri Oosthuizen View Post
    Hoor wat jy se.......mens dink al die power gaan met 'n major "CLUNK" na daai een wiel toe en kan die sideshaft of diff of whatever strip, maar ja, dis dalk nie so "violent" as wat mens (of ek) dink nie. Kan nie wees nie, anders het daar al BAIE goete gebreek.

    So..........the most "reliable" aid here would be rear Difflock only, but (debatably) also the least "competent"??
    Die Mahindras se auto locking rear diff gaan met so mase bang aan en selfs hulle hou.

    Dink hoeveel keer kan jy n kar op n teerpad spin voor iets breek, die goed is tawwer as wat mens dink.
    2000 Land Rover Discovery II TD5
    2019 Suzuki Baleno 1.4 GLX platkar

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Sasolburg
    Age
    40
    Posts
    1,647

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    Wheel articulation also plays a role and could affect how effective these aids are. Defender without or T/C or lockers on the front or rear axles will most probably be better than a hilux with only rear locker on certain terrain because it can keep the wheels on the ground.
    But if the question is purely which of the two, D/L or T/C is best? Definitely Diff lock, no doubt in my mind. There is zero delay for the wheel to find traction. It's always there.

    How I miss my old Hilux with front and read ARB lockers...
    If Force is not the solution, not enough of it was applied....

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Centurion + Others
    Age
    60
    Posts
    2,783

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    I had ARB front and Rear lockers on my Manual TD5 Defender.
    driven properly it was almost unstoppable.
    Merit before Race - anything else IS Racism.
    Stay Calm, engage low-ratio, keep buggering on - a Landy Man
    Longevity isn't worth dying for,

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Gaborone, Botswana
    Age
    56
    Posts
    4,907

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    And then we have a LSD as well.
    Kobus

    Nissan

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Randfontein
    Age
    32
    Posts
    1,506

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    Quote Originally Posted by KobusDJ View Post
    And then we have a LSD as well.
    How effective is a LSD?
    2000 Land Rover Discovery II TD5
    2019 Suzuki Baleno 1.4 GLX platkar

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Polokwane
    Age
    53
    Posts
    700

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois Theron View Post
    For me SFA with front and rear selectable lockers is the ultimate. I don't like TC because it is not instantaneous, no matter how good it is and there is always a degree of wheelspin. TC also brings more electronics into play. It makes off roading easier for the not to experienced, but give me mechanical lockers any day.
    Agree.
    Jeep Grand Cherokee 2002 4.7 V8

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Cape Town
    Age
    29
    Posts
    2,821

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    Quote Originally Posted by FWM View Post
    How effective is a LSD?
    Put under tongue and give it 20min.

    Report back in 24h
    Always think: Could this be sarcasm?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Kathu
    Age
    33
    Posts
    215

    Default Re: Lockers/Traction Control etc etc........Comparison??

    very interesting discussion.
    My disco 4 is my first 4x4 and I have put it through its paces a little and really find it to be cheating with its good clearance and diff locks which locks whenever the car thinks its necessary

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •