Defender 300 tdi oil pressure





Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 54
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    21
    Posts
    180
    Thanked: 42

    Default 300 tdi oil pressure

    Hi,

    My 300tdi has 50 000km since rebuild and i use liqui moly 10w40 semi synthetic. Still running great at 140km/h

    Cold starts oil pressure : ~3-4bar
    Running pressure (oil above 80*C) : 1.5~1.9bar , funny thing is long trips(Kaap toe) the pressure sits at 1.6 sometimes dips to 1.5 (~110km/h gps), short trips even though engine oil is at 80*C the pressure sits at 1.8~1.9bar(town driving not highway or 5th).
    Idle hot : 1.2-1.3bar

    The pressure and temp is measured where the old low pressure sensor was fitted , t-piece is used to connect both sensors.

    Any other 300tdi owners can comment on their oil pressure , is my oil pressure good?

    I tried searching online but got conflicting results.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Niela; 2019/10/20 at 06:44 PM.
    1996 300tdi Defender 110

    AND HE IS HERE TO DO SOME BUSINESS WITH A BIG IRON ON HIS HIP

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Langebaanweg
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,520
    Thanked: 923

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    Cold near 4 bar but not more than 4.
    Hot idle about 1.5 and can drop to below 1 bar when stopping after long hot drive.

    But operating pressure, when driving, is always near 4 bar.
    '07 Land Rover Defender 110 TDI 300 Kalahari (Meisiekind˛)

    84' Land Rover Defender 110 V8 4-speed Hardtop (Meisiekind) Sold after 12 years of fun and hard work




    The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for a good man to do nothing.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    21
    Posts
    180
    Thanked: 42

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by jfh View Post
    Cold near 4 bar but not more than 4.
    Hot idle about 1.5 and can drop to below 1 bar when stopping after long hot drive.

    But operating pressure, when driving, is always near 4 bar.
    This is a little concerning as my oil pressure is far below yours when driving
    1996 300tdi Defender 110

    AND HE IS HERE TO DO SOME BUSINESS WITH A BIG IRON ON HIS HIP

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Langebaanweg
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,520
    Thanked: 923

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    Look at these.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot_20191020-192402~2.png 
Views:	83 
Size:	132.0 KB 
ID:	544875   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot_20191020-192254~2.png 
Views:	65 
Size:	220.9 KB 
ID:	544876  
    '07 Land Rover Defender 110 TDI 300 Kalahari (Meisiekind˛)

    84' Land Rover Defender 110 V8 4-speed Hardtop (Meisiekind) Sold after 12 years of fun and hard work




    The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for a good man to do nothing.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    21
    Posts
    180
    Thanked: 42

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by jfh View Post
    Look at these.

    Mine is still below spec when driving highway.

    What are the easiest steps to diagnose the low oil pressure?

    Start with the oil pressure relief valve and then from there it is basically stripping the engine to check all the clearances and pump?
    1996 300tdi Defender 110

    AND HE IS HERE TO DO SOME BUSINESS WITH A BIG IRON ON HIS HIP

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Modjadjiskloof
    Age
    38
    Posts
    1,060
    Thanked: 131

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    Hi Niela

    My standpoint is somewhere between the two extremes mentioned in the posts so far. I am not the ultimate Tdi authority on this forum though and I still have a lot to learn.

    I would like to mention some points here.

    - The operating pressures mentioned in your post seem excessively low. Hot idle pressures are about right in my opinion. My experience from similar questions on this forum (search and you'll find a few threads...) is that many Tdi owners have hot operating pressures of around 2.1 bar and they're not concerned. This is within the spec as published in jfh's screenshot too. His operating pressures close to 4 bar are much higher than anyone else's that I've heard of, and I'm quite jealous as I'd also feel a lot happier if my pressures were a bit more like his. :-)

    - My previous Tdi, remanufactured by Remtec, sat at around 2.0 bar when running nice and hot on the highway. This got steadily worse, and would gradually sneak lower and lower on a long journey, until at a mileage not that much higher than yours, I was also making that sort of post on this forum.

    - Further to my comment directly above, I also learnt from this forum that the guys who sell you a remanufactured engine don't generally put in a new "rear timing cover", which houses the oil pump. They replace the oil pump (cheap) if worn, but if the HOUSING wears you'll never get the pressure right. See hgbosch's comments on this forum about the difference it made for him. Not saying this is your problem.

    - My current Tdi with about 240 000 km runs about like this:
    "Normal" warm idle: 1.2-1.5 bar
    Normal driving in town etc: about 2.1 bar
    Hot and fast highway driving: drops to 1.9 or 1.8 bar
    Hot idle after fast highway driving or climbing passes: can drop to 0.7 and on occasion 0.6 bar, but usually sits at 0.8 bar. Bear in mind that idle speed also slows down a bit when it's hot or when you have the aircon on.

    - For me personally (and this is a personal choice and also depends on climate) 10W40 (or anything W 40) is too thin, although it is pretty much the correct spec (15W40 is the spec). But in my opinion, this oil should still give you very good pressures on a new engine, unless something is wrong.

    Some recommend 20W50 but I don't think you can find excellent diesel oils in this weight?
    In my old Tdi I used Castrol Edge 10W60 which could really take the heat and still had good cold viscosity. It's really expensive to fill a Tdi with this oil though! It actually didn't make much difference to running pressure, but did sort out the idle pressures. And the typical Tdi "tapping" noise was much less.

    In the latest one, which has high mileage, I'm using Valvoline 25W60, also sorts out my oil consumption (there's a lot of blow-by and this thing really drinks oil!). But you shouldn't have to resort to this in a "new" engine.

    - Do you mind sharing who did the rebuild? And what exactly was done in terms of work and replacement parts? If you have a warranty, I would seriously start calling it in before something goes "bang". Again my opinion.
    And the above statement, of course, presumes that you are measuring the oil pressures fairly accurately.

    Hope this helps.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Langebaanweg
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,520
    Thanked: 923

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    Ja. I will first check the guage then the return valve and then the pump.

    But option 3 will be expensive
    '07 Land Rover Defender 110 TDI 300 Kalahari (Meisiekind˛)

    84' Land Rover Defender 110 V8 4-speed Hardtop (Meisiekind) Sold after 12 years of fun and hard work




    The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for a good man to do nothing.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    21
    Posts
    180
    Thanked: 42

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by antvz View Post
    Hi Niela

    My standpoint is somewhere between the two extremes mentioned in the posts so far. I am not the ultimate Tdi authority on this forum though and I still have a lot to learn.

    I would like to mention some points here.

    - The operating pressures mentioned in your post seem excessively low. Hot idle pressures are about right in my opinion. My experience from similar questions on this forum (search and you'll find a few threads...) is that many Tdi owners have hot operating pressures of around 2.1 bar and they're not concerned. This is within the spec as published in jfh's screenshot too. His operating pressures close to 4 bar are much higher than anyone else's that I've heard of, and I'm quite jealous as I'd also feel a lot happier if my pressures were a bit more like his. :-)

    - My previous Tdi, remanufactured by Remtec, sat at around 2.0 bar when running nice and hot on the highway. This got steadily worse, and would gradually sneak lower and lower on a long journey, until at a mileage not that much higher than yours, I was also making that sort of post on this forum.

    - Further to my comment directly above, I also learnt from this forum that the guys who sell you a remanufactured engine don't generally put in a new "rear timing cover", which houses the oil pump. They replace the oil pump (cheap) if worn, but if the HOUSING wears you'll never get the pressure right. See hgbosch's comments on this forum about the difference it made for him. Not saying this is your problem.

    - My current Tdi with about 240 000 km runs about like this:
    "Normal" warm idle: 1.2-1.5 bar
    Normal driving in town etc: about 2.1 bar
    Hot and fast highway driving: drops to 1.9 or 1.8 bar
    Hot idle after fast highway driving or climbing passes: can drop to 0.7 and on occasion 0.6 bar, but usually sits at 0.8 bar. Bear in mind that idle speed also slows down a bit when it's hot or when you have the aircon on.

    - For me personally (and this is a personal choice and also depends on climate) 10W40 (or anything W 40) is too thin, although it is pretty much the correct spec (15W40 is the spec). But in my opinion, this oil should still give you very good pressures on a new engine, unless something is wrong.

    Some recommend 20W50 but I don't think you can find excellent diesel oils in this weight?
    In my old Tdi I used Castrol Edge 10W60 which could really take the heat and still had good cold viscosity. It's really expensive to fill a Tdi with this oil though! It actually didn't make much difference to running pressure, but did sort out the idle pressures. And the typical Tdi "tapping" noise was much less.

    In the latest one, which has high mileage, I'm using Valvoline 25W60, also sorts out my oil consumption (there's a lot of blow-by and this thing really drinks oil!). But you shouldn't have to resort to this in a "new" engine.

    - Do you mind sharing who did the rebuild? And what exactly was done in terms of work and replacement parts? If you have a warranty, I would seriously start calling it in before something goes "bang". Again my opinion.
    And the above statement, of course, presumes that you are measuring the oil pressures fairly accurately.

    Hope this helps.
    The rebuild was done at my dads work by a guy that rebuilds casspir/unimog engines , as far as i know it was a complete rebuild ie. new pistons , sleeves , rings , bearings etc , im not sure about the oil pump though . My ems was fitted at around 20-30k on the engine , my readings hasnt changed since then , got advice from someone that said above 0.5 is good , im still young so i dont know that the right oil pressure is (now i do).

    Im going for a drive now , will send my readings?
    1996 300tdi Defender 110

    AND HE IS HERE TO DO SOME BUSINESS WITH A BIG IRON ON HIS HIP

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Modjadjiskloof
    Age
    38
    Posts
    1,060
    Thanked: 131

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    I've also been wondering about the oil cooler, and the path from the engine to the oil cooler. Just a theory I'm working on...

    As you're aware, there is an oil thermostat (or supposed to be) somewhere in that line. So the oil cooler doesn't receive oil continuously, only when the temperature goes above a certain amount. In my previous Tdi I could clearly see the point that this thermostat opened, as there was an abrupt drop of about 0.3 bar over a temperature change of just 3 deg C.

    I've often wondered about the effect the oil cooler would have on oil pressure, if it was slightly blocked or restricted? And whether the sender would report a higher or lower value? Perhaps someone could clarify where in the oil circuit the sender is positioned. Directly from the oil pump, or somewhere in the middle of the circuit?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Langebaanweg
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,520
    Thanked: 923

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    Mine runs on 5W40 full synthetic and 184k km on the odo.
    '07 Land Rover Defender 110 TDI 300 Kalahari (Meisiekind˛)

    84' Land Rover Defender 110 V8 4-speed Hardtop (Meisiekind) Sold after 12 years of fun and hard work




    The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for a good man to do nothing.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Langebaanweg
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,520
    Thanked: 923

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by antvz View Post
    I've also been wondering about the oil cooler, and the path from the engine to the oil cooler. Just a theory I'm working on...

    As you're aware, there is an oil thermostat (or supposed to be) somewhere in that line. So the oil cooler doesn't receive oil continuously, only when the temperature goes above a certain amount. In my previous Tdi I could clearly see the point that this thermostat opened, as there was an abrupt drop of about 0.3 bar over a temperature change of just 3 deg C.

    I've often wondered about the effect the oil cooler would have on oil pressure, if it was slightly blocked or restricted? And whether the sender would report a higher or lower value? Perhaps someone could clarify where in the oil circuit the sender is positioned. Directly from the oil pump, or somewhere in the middle of the circuit?
    If I remember correctly it's at the oil filter housing.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot_20191020-202754~2.png 
Views:	36 
Size:	205.7 KB 
ID:	544887   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot_20191020-202809~2.png 
Views:	37 
Size:	94.0 KB 
ID:	544888  
    Last edited by jfh; 2019/10/20 at 08:32 PM.
    '07 Land Rover Defender 110 TDI 300 Kalahari (Meisiekind˛)

    84' Land Rover Defender 110 V8 4-speed Hardtop (Meisiekind) Sold after 12 years of fun and hard work




    The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for a good man to do nothing.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Modjadjiskloof
    Age
    38
    Posts
    1,060
    Thanked: 131

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Niela View Post
    The rebuild was done at my dads work by a guy that rebuilds casspir/unimog engines , as far as i know it was a complete rebuild ie. new pistons , sleeves , rings , bearings etc , im not sure about the oil pump though . My ems was fitted at around 20-30k on the engine , my readings hasnt changed since then , got advice from someone that said above 0.5 is good , im still young so i dont know that the right oil pressure is (now i do).

    Im going for a drive now , will send my readings?
    The oil pump for this engine is very cheap (I think about R600?) so it's not expensive to replace. But I don't know how many rebuilders check the clearance between rotor and housing after fitting a new pump (which they should).

    Cam bearing can also turn in the block, and then no matter what you do you can't get the pressure up.

    Irrespective, I feel that no matter what the issue is, if you're sure your readings are correct, and can have the car out of action for a bit, I would strip and investigate stuff. You need to remove the sump to get to the relief valve anyway. That's a bit of a job. Now the bearings are exposed and can be checked (but remember to torque everything properly and use new parts, sealant, etc where specified! - use a manual and do it properly!) You say it's 50 000 km since rebuild, almost time for timing belt change. So strip the front cover, timing gear, rear cover, and check the oil pump and clearances. And you might be in for a surprise, if your timing belt wasn't running perfectly straight it could be in poor condition by now. You need a bunch of new seals when doing this job, no short cuts here! Now you're (hopefully) sure that all is in order, and hopefully somewhere in there, your problem will be discovered.

    Good luck with it all, and keep us posted.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Modjadjiskloof
    Age
    38
    Posts
    1,060
    Thanked: 131

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by jfh View Post
    If I remember correctly it's at the oil filter housing.
    Yes, that's correct. That's the beginning of the oil circuit, am I right? Straight from the oil pump? So it goes from the oil pump, through the filter, past the pressure switch, out via pipe to oil cooler, back from oil cooler into engine block...and then it begins its circuit through all the components of the block and head, eventually dripping back down into the sump again... (and don't forget the little detour from the other side of the block to the turbo).

    So BY MY LOGIC: a blockage at the pickup, or a blockage in the oil filter (although this has a bypass) will cause a drop in oil pressure readings. Any blockage thereafter, will cause a RISE in the reading. Until the pressure relief valve kicks in at around 4 bar (which is why cold idle is limited to 4 bar if everything is working correctly).

    There goes my oil cooler blockage theory :-) ...

    It's also why an engine with nice tight clearances will give high oil pressure readings.

    Leading off from the above, here is how you could ascertain without opening, where the cause of the pressure drop might be: (open to comments and debate on this from others...)

    - In simple terms, the oil pressure is kept high by the following two things (this is Physics!):
    1. There must be an adequate flow rate (the oil must go fast enough through the pipes and things).
    2. There must be adequate restriction to create the high pressure.
    (in other words, the pressure depends on the ratio of the restriction in the system, to the flow rate through it).

    IF YOU COULD measure the flow rate in the pipe from the filter to the oil cooler, and the flow rate is within spec but pressure is not (don't know what it should be, you would perhaps have to compare with someone who has a healthy motor?)

    THEN the problem lies with something internal in the engine (bearing clearance somewhere is too great).

    IF THE FLOW RATE is too low AND the pressure is too low, it's the oil pump or blocked pickup (or relief valve possibly?)

    Very easy in theory. But I wouldn't know how to do this in practice!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    21
    Posts
    180
    Thanked: 42

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by antvz View Post
    I've also been wondering about the oil cooler, and the path from the engine to the oil cooler. Just a theory I'm working on...

    As you're aware, there is an oil thermostat (or supposed to be) somewhere in that line. So the oil cooler doesn't receive oil continuously, only when the temperature goes above a certain amount. In my previous Tdi I could clearly see the point that this thermostat opened, as there was an abrupt drop of about 0.3 bar over a temperature change of just 3 deg C.

    I've often wondered about the effect the oil cooler would have on oil pressure, if it was slightly blocked or restricted? And whether the sender would report a higher or lower value? Perhaps someone could clarify where in the oil circuit the sender is positioned. Directly from the oil pump, or somewhere in the middle of the circuit?
    My oil pressure climes to ~1.6bar just above idle , more rpm does nothing to the oil pressure(HOT)
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot_20191020-204400.jpg 
Views:	38 
Size:	108.1 KB 
ID:	544889   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot_20191020-204427.jpg 
Views:	35 
Size:	111.4 KB 
ID:	544890   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot_20191020-204417.jpg 
Views:	30 
Size:	111.4 KB 
ID:	544891   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Screenshot_20191020-205544.jpg 
Views:	35 
Size:	102.8 KB 
ID:	544892  
    Last edited by Niela; 2019/10/20 at 09:19 PM.
    1996 300tdi Defender 110

    AND HE IS HERE TO DO SOME BUSINESS WITH A BIG IRON ON HIS HIP

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Wartburg
    Age
    59
    Posts
    1,543
    Thanked: 1197

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Niela View Post
    My oil pressure climes to ~1.6bar just above idle , more rpm does nothing to the oil pressure
    The pressures on my tdi, new head and turbo on an original block of about 400k km and new oil pump:

    Cold: 4.5 - 4.8 over 2500 rpm
    Normal temp: around 2.1
    Hot, pushing water temps to 97 degC: 1.8
    Idle when hot, just below 1.0


  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Gansbaai
    Age
    37
    Posts
    104
    Thanked: 14

    Default 300 tdi oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by Niela View Post
    My oil pressure climes to ~1.6bar just above idle , more rpm does nothing to the oil pressure
    Hi Niela, sorry this is slightly OT and doesn't offer any insight to your question but what EMS are you using?
    Last edited by defender200tdi; 2019/10/20 at 09:17 PM.
    1992 Disco 1 200tdi

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Langebaanweg
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,520
    Thanked: 923

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    Took this picture about February.


    And apparently upside down.
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    '07 Land Rover Defender 110 TDI 300 Kalahari (Meisiekind˛)

    84' Land Rover Defender 110 V8 4-speed Hardtop (Meisiekind) Sold after 12 years of fun and hard work




    The only thing needed for evil to triumph is for a good man to do nothing.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    21
    Posts
    180
    Thanked: 42

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by defender200tdi View Post
    Hi Niela, sorry this is slightly OT and doesn't offer any insight to your question but what EMS are you using?
    4X4MON ems.
    1996 300tdi Defender 110

    AND HE IS HERE TO DO SOME BUSINESS WITH A BIG IRON ON HIS HIP

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    21
    Posts
    180
    Thanked: 42

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    Quote Originally Posted by jfh View Post
    Took this picture about February.


    And apparently upside down.
    Im really starting to get concerned about my oil pressure.
    1996 300tdi Defender 110

    AND HE IS HERE TO DO SOME BUSINESS WITH A BIG IRON ON HIS HIP

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    21
    Posts
    180
    Thanked: 42

    Default Re: 300 tdi oil pressure

    My oil pressure climbs to ~1.6bar just above idle , more rpm does nothing to the oil pressure(HOT)

    Can this be a clue to what is wrong?


    Last edited by Niela; 2019/10/20 at 10:03 PM.
    1996 300tdi Defender 110

    AND HE IS HERE TO DO SOME BUSINESS WITH A BIG IRON ON HIS HIP

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •