Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors. - Page 2





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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    A mate of mine is/was a Landy indie. He has been burned by tosspot moaner customers more times than he can mention.

    The guys ALWAYS come back with a complaint.

    90% of this is due to what Veneficus has mentioned: NO DOCUMENTED SCOPE OF THE REPAIR OR MODIFICATION.

    So then Mr I-Cannot-Work-On-A-Car-Myself brings in his 40 year old clunker, that he bought from some dodge source, for some repairs.

    My mate fixes what the bloke says.

    The bloke comes and complains about the cost and even often refuses to pay because suddenly the 40 year old clunker isn't in showroom condition. Because he thinks LR spares are cheap and grow on trees. So he complains because unrelated stuff hasn't also been fixed. Or because suddenly there is a budget which was never communicated.

    10% of the time, yes, my mate screws up something but he ALWAYS ends up paying for the screw-up anyway. Old cars break when being repaired, we've all stripped a bolt or cracked a window or something and suddenly a quick cheap fix becomes a PITA.

    Personally there is no way I'd open a workshop even if I had all the training and expertise. We live in an age of knobs that work on their credit cards and expect somebody else to take the punch for their stupid decisions. They read crap on the Interwebs but don't have the technical savvy to understand the implications.

    End of rant.
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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    I hope to add a tiny bit of positive detail to this thread in that I happened to be watching Rod Shop (I think - the SA custom car shop show) where one of the shop owners was emphasizing the need for good business practice; not just hands on work. I guess he meant admin; noting what the customers asks for, giving a quote, getting it accepted and signed off, contacting him with changes and costs, getting them signed off, agreement on the final or interim accounts and making sure they get paid. Easily a full time job that could take a skilled person away from the spanners and hammers (for LR's ) that they are good at. Could sane a lot of angst.

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  5. #23
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    Quote Originally Posted by mudgrubber View Post
    I hope to add a tiny bit of positive detail to this thread in that I happened to be watching Rod Shop (I think - the SA custom car shop show) where one of the shop owners was emphasizing the need for good business practice; not just hands on work. I guess he meant admin; noting what the customers asks for, giving a quote, getting it accepted and signed off, contacting him with changes and costs, getting them signed off, agreement on the final or interim accounts and making sure they get paid. Easily a full time job that could take a skilled person away from the spanners and hammers (for LR's ) that they are good at. Could sane a lot of angst.

    yeah the problem is a one man band can't do that without employing somebody skilled and that eats the meager profits.......
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  7. #24
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    I think the issue often arises from a first time customer. When something goes wrong their bad experience = 100% of their experience was ''bad'' whereas a long time customer who has used a service provider 10 times has no bad experience also has a 100% experience but it was all good.

    Even if the long time customer has 1 bad experience in 10 opportunities, this only represents 10% and they are probably more willing to work with the service provider based on the previous good 90%

    I recently had a 1st time experience with a service provider, highly recommended and well known in the industry. It was a good experience overall but the outcome of the work wasnt good. I didnt jump on here and lambaste them. I have preferred to work with them and have found them quite accommodating so far.

    In short, I think a lot of really negative ''feedback'' comes from the 1st time customer who didnt have a good experience so 100% of their experience was bad and they then jump onto social media hastily.
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  9. #25
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    I've been dealing with Albert for maybe 15 yrs, any issues I have had have been addressed face to face and resolved amicably without resorting to social media. I ask him to do X, ask the price and we agree on what's needed. I may mention what I think it may be, what Google has suggested, discuss it with him but I rely on his knowledge. He's rebuilt 2 engines (petrol & diesel) for me, and has helped me in many ways. I'll keep driving from Randburg to Springs because I can rely on him and trust him and his workmanship.

    Like any relationship/business dealings, if both parties are upfront with their requirements and expectations, life is pretty simple. Some people (customers and workshops) seem to have a problem with that.
    "Do not try to win over the idiots - you are not the Jerk Whisperer.."

  10. #26
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    Quote Originally Posted by mudgrubber View Post
    I agree Henkus and now and then I get out the blocks a bit quickly without some contemplative thought.

    One point is that most of these indies have hundreds of satisfied customers but there is going to be an error now and then. Try resolve it decently rather than going on a rant. It only takes one goat...................
    How a service provider deals with complaints is what really count's.

    It's fair to assume miscommunication and mistakes befalls us all but when a service provider consistently comes out guns blazing with the deny deny deny method of diplomacy it quickly becomes unpalatable. From my experience the aforementioned methods are used to cut the losses with a client, irrevocably damage the relationship so that the client has no other option but to walk away and take it on the chin.

    It could just come down to a lack of people skills but I have seen when honest guys make mistakes there's typically very little shouting or hard word's, they want to get to the bottom of the issue and that's all that matters.

    Vehicles are extremely complex devices and some mechanics have a habit of biting off more than they can chew, once that happens on a job with costly parts they have little other option when things go tits up but to cut the client loose and burn them. If they didn't they'd probably be bankrupt on the spot.
    Last edited by Skylark; 2019/10/21 at 08:47 PM.

  11. #27
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    have a look at the sad story I've been through (technically, still going through since I'm yet to see my refund): https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum...Indie-workshop

    who else would have so much patience in this kind of situation?
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  12. #28
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    My experience with many many indies: they suck at cost estimation.

    If I get a price for a repair, I always just double the amount.

    Not sure why this is. Maybe mechanics become mechanics cos they suck at maths and numbers?
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    Standard deviation is 5%.

    ie 5% will never be satisfied, but they are the 5% that you ignore. Listen to the 95%.
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Not sure why this is. Maybe mechanics become mechanics cos they suck at maths and numbers?
    It's certainly one of the reasons I did, fortunately, I am an employee, if I worked for myself, I'd probably starve...
    Cheers,
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  16. #31
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    I normally agree on a budget figure before I start anything..
    Every now and then I get a customer who says ďjust fix everythingĒ...... thatís when you know itís best to get a number up front.

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  18. #32
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryFrank View Post
    I normally agree on a budget figure before I start anything..
    Every now and then I get a customer who says ďjust fix everythingĒ...... thatís when you know itís best to get a number up front.
    on the other hand, I always tell the mechanic to fix NOTHING, quote first...........

    We then establish a priority list, negotiate prices, and agree on timelines. Even then, I'm frequently disappointed. It's just sad. Then they moan when they don't get return business.

    And I don't even want to start on lack of communication...........they can spend hours a day on whatsapp and 4x4comm and vleisboek and tinder but they can't tell the customer how far their repair is based on the agreed work and timelines.

    If I had to work like that I'd be fired. I have SLAs on email response and delivery of electronic paperwork.
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    Oaks,

    Working in a field where you need to keep old mechanical stuff going, is not easy. Driving old cars myself, mostly keeping running myself, I have sympathy.


    Things with wieletjies en ratjies can be extremely reliable, but eventually they do get kapot. And the problem is, people expect them to run maintenance free forever.

    When it does fail, they think it will cost them the price of electronics to fix....


    Now since Albert has been mentioned on this thread a few times, I could perhaps say that I work with him for many years now.

    His biggest downfall is the hours of advice that he dish out freely - advice that comes from hard experience. Show me any other indy who will take calls the times of day he does.

    But like me, he is also very much a Tunc in his own way. And that often comes with people who does set high standards for their levels of service.



    You know, at some point, one does get a little tired of the minority of customers milking you for their benefit, and where to draw the line.


    Other than that, a few good pointers raised on this thread.

    Automotives are bottomless money pits. If you don't like it, walk.
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  20. #34
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    Quote Originally Posted by biltong View Post
    His biggest downfall is the hours of advice that he dish out freely.
    He reached out to me on a question I posted a while back, and gave me the benefit of his experience, free, gratis and mahala, so I can second that.

    Nobody can please everybody, always.
    Cheers,
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  21. #35
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    I have an indie that does all my vehicles.

    There has been the occasionsl hiccup. But they've always been resolved. Sometimes for my account, sometimes his.

    He rebuilds motors and actually runs a good setup. But I have now reached the point where he does everything I cannot do myself.

    Even though some services are not really his line of business.

    Taking the time to get to know him, work with him and communicate has gone a long way towards building a solid (vehicle related) relationship.

    Tomorrow I'm taking my vehicle to have the rear crank seal replaced as I do not have the time/tools to pull the gearbox myself.

    I usually have this line "While it's here, look at x,y,z..." I have reached the point where I now seldom ask for a quote upfront.

    I can echo the sentiment that there's never enough feedback from these guys!

    Now if you ask my neighbour - he will never recommend this indie......

    I believe an indie is like a new wife - it takes time and effort to get a solid relationship going .
    Last edited by Bacon; 2019/10/24 at 07:03 AM.

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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    Usually, if I book in my car, I have no budget.

    I EXPECT from my indy while he is busy working to tell me everything that is of concern, and I will come over and discuss it.


    On my last booking, my car was only in for an oil leak on the LH side and to replace the crank pulley.


    While we opened, we discoverd the turbo is already a bit worn, the exhaust manifold was leaking, there was a water leak behind it on a nut etc.

    Oaks, the labour is already spend to disassemble and assemble again.

    If I now wanted to skimp and NOT put in a turbo core of R 3000, then only 20 000 kilos later I will have to pay again R 2000 labour to get to the core.

    So, like it or not, it usually is the least cost and time route to replace the worn parts if you open up and find them.
    1999 Discovery 1, 300 Tdi - "Tink Tanky"
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    "...it is abundantly clear that you are an arrogant C-nut." - Estee. (I was overwhelmed. It was the nicest thing someone has said to me in a week!)

  23. #37
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    I think that a lot of people are too quick to judge and belittle people, too few people take the time to try and understand the person. I have got a very quick temper, so donít like getting into confrontational situations. It at times didnít do wonders for my handyman business very many years ago.

    Not a quick fix situation
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    It's an unfortunate fact of life that some people will never be satisfied if the answers they get are not to their liking. Some, you just can't please and you should be be wary of them, rather than try to please them. Businesses survive despite these people, rather than because of them.

    Normally, we bend over backwards and jump through hoops trying to please them, when actually pleasing them is just about impossible. Walk away, with your head held high, knowing that you have done ll you can, and keep your integrity intact.

    The most difficult thing is recognizing them early enough.

    Good luck.
    Last edited by Geoff Miles; 2020/03/30 at 08:50 AM.

  25. #39
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    on the other hand, I always tell the mechanic to fix NOTHING, quote first...........
    .

    While this door is open....,
    I do get the occasional customer that asks for a quote and then has a hissy fit when I tell him that Iím gonna charge him for the quote...

    Seriously.....

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  27. #40
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    Default Re: Do you have the right? A rant about spineless individuals spreading rumors.

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryFrank View Post
    While this door is open....,
    I do get the occasional customer that asks for a quote and then has a hissy fit when I tell him that Iím gonna charge him for the quote...

    Seriously.....
    That's why we do a quote like the bmw battery for 250k. There will be endless 'rework' otherwise.....

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