Just don't get some people...





Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 35
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Swakop
    Age
    36
    Posts
    4,807
    Thanked: 475

    Angry Just don't get some people...

    Just came back from a week trudging around in Damaraland, and just could not believe the ammount of new tracks etc. The way some people drive and mess around is unbelievable, sickening almost.

    Tracks going straight over welwitchias, tracks of guys trying to spin their way up certain hills. When we got the the plains after going up divorce pass there was some peanut who did a bunch of doughnuts...I really don't get it.

    I like to play as much as the next guy, but there is a time and place for everything. When entering these last remote area's why can people not just tread lightly?

    Makes my blood boil.

    rant over
    "Meerkat"
    Namboyz
    modded 02' 105 series 4.5efi (big wheeled petrol thief)



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Delmas
    Age
    60
    Posts
    11,491
    Thanked: 622

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    Quote Originally Posted by AboutAfrica View Post
    Just came back from a week trudging around in Damaraland, and just could not believe the ammount of new tracks etc. The way some people drive and mess around is unbelievable, sickening almost.

    Tracks going straight over welwitchias, tracks of guys trying to spin their way up certain hills. When we got the the plains after going up divorce pass there was some peanut who did a bunch of doughnuts...I really don't get it.

    I like to play as much as the next guy, but there is a time and place for everything. When entering these last remote area's why can people not just tread lightly?

    Makes my blood boil.

    rant over
    Stem 100% saam met jou. Die mens wat nie weet om die natuur te respekteer nie. Regtig. Wonder hoeveel moet ons hul nog vertel en leer. En dan brag hul so ewe daaroor as hul terugkom.
    Elize

    en ry saam met SarelF in
    VW AMAROK MET BLINKGATCAMPER:
    My Platkar:- Peugeot 208

    Kyk gerus by www.blinkgatproducts.com
    Vir enige aluminium produkte,canopy's, campers kontak gerus
    Sarel 0828209413

  3. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to witklipbank For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Bloemfontein
    Age
    41
    Posts
    1,774
    Thanked: 1001

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    It ties in with the thread about the disappearance of Namibia's game, at least in the unfenced west. Rangers like Christiaan Bakkes used to give such perpetrators massive fines, but after he was forced to resign from Wilderness Safaris for exposing corruption it seems like nobody cares anymore. The Namib recently became a sort of free for all; from Chinese mines, rhino hunts, illegal settlement etc as long as you grease the palms of certain politicians. Read all about it in Bakkes's Plunderwoestyn that came out last year.
    Last edited by Jens78; 2019/09/12 at 09:49 AM.
    2001 Gen 3 Pajero swb 3.2 Di-D

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jens78 For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Straight outta Benoni
    Age
    43
    Posts
    435
    Thanked: 440

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    Such behaviour was probably inspired by the latest Hilux ad, or so they say.
    1998 Defender 90 TDi 300 for Africa.
    2014 Ford Fiesta 1L EcoBoost petrol for Europe.

    Swambo and I have a little travel blog: https://www.thetravellingchilli.com

  7. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Naes-Landy For This Useful Post:


  8. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Rustenburg
    Age
    32
    Posts
    972
    Thanked: 790

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    As hypocritical as this post sounds, I think the problems are that the barriers of entry have been reduced far too much. This is something I copied from a friends Facebook post on the same issue a year or so back:

    “I remember enjoying 4x4 overland trips and access to remote areas from as early as 4 years or so. My dad getting his first Defender from Peco Porsche in town (they were the agents then in Pretoria) was a huge deal. Very few other people we knew owned 4x4s. If they did, they were probably farmers. We knew an inordinate number of farmers due the line of work my dad was in, so my sample size was obviously skewed.

    a lot of accessories had to be custom made at home. You couldn’t just pull into safari center with a blank cheque and say go wild. Even later, when this became a possibility, it was very expensive. Simply out of reach of most people grasp. Also, you couldn’t finance your 4x4 accessories, like so many do today.

    When dad got his first Engel, we used a cooler box and dry ice, and had to plan very carefully when we went into koakaveld, or the far north of moz, to make sure we had enough fresh meat etc to survive. I remember on more than one occasion eating some very questionable smelling lamb chops, or sandwiches made with what we affectionately renamed “silverside”.

    There res was nothing at all about over landing that was easy, but it was so so much fun. We also met very few people along the way. Those we did meet, were always some of the most interesting people under the sun. Most of them had made some sort of sacrifice to be able to enjoy these truly wild places.

    Today, every middle manager drives a 4x4. Ten years ago, he would probably be the guy with the Demo model golf GTI, but now a fully kitted 4x4 is the new in thing. He will probably have every accessory under the sun fitted, most of them specced at purchase, and worked into the finance deal.

    When he he is done showing off with his mates at a few “4x4 tracks”, this “kwarriegat specialist” and a few mates with similararly aquired 4x4s will need to do their coming of age overland trip. now, thanks to google maps, smartphones, tracks for Africa and NORAD built roads, finding out about these far away places, and accessing them, has become almost too easy. In the past, info about reaching some of these really remote places was closely guarded. You had to find out about the directions and road conditions from a friend of a friend. You had to stop off at remote farms and outposts to get directions. You had to know how to read a map. There was no cell reception anywhere, and a sat-phone was something you had only heard of from your one uncle that won’t stop harping on about his time on the “border”.

    This slacking of the barriers to entry, results in people visiting places purely to tick them off a list. There is very little respect for the process of getting there, for the natural and cultural significance of the area. It has just become another opportunity to snap the perfect selfie of you and your bakkie. To one up your mates, and then to rush off back to the rat race, to make enough money to pay off the credit card you just maxed out to get that perfect selfie. When this is the average mindset of the average overlander, there will never be respect for the environment. Respect is borne out of understanding, understanding comes from persevering. Those days are sadly long gone for the most part.”


  9. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Rustenburg
    Age
    32
    Posts
    972
    Thanked: 790

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    I also think the fact that this thread gets almost no attention, whilst there are about 6 different active threads discussing whether or not the new defender is any good, and another heated thread about the pros and cons of a new R900k limited edition land cruiser bakkie, are indicative of the problem.

    Image is so important to the off-roader. Deeper understanding of nature and culture a little less so.


  10. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Cape Town
    Age
    63
    Posts
    10,081
    Thanked: 2609

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    Quote Originally Posted by Naes-Landy View Post
    Such behaviour was probably inspired by the latest Hilux ad, or so they say.
    Quite correct ... and so we do say.
    Tony Weaver

    1991 Land Rover 110 Hi-Line S/W 3.5l V8 carburettor
    Cooper Discoverer STT tyres, four sleeper Echo rooftop tent
    2012 Mitsubishi Outlander.

    Previously Land Rover 1968 SII, 1969 SIIA, 1973 SIII, 1983 Toyota HiLux 2litre, 2006 Land Rover Freelander TD4 HSE.

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tony Weaver For This Useful Post:


  12. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Durban
    Age
    64
    Posts
    224
    Thanked: 247

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jens78 View Post
    It ties in with the thread about the disappearance of Namibia's game, at least in the unfenced west. Rangers like Christiaan Bakkes used to give such perpetrators massive fines, but after he was forced to resign from Wilderness Safaris for exposing corruption it seems like nobody cares anymore. The Namib recently became a sort of free for all; from Chinese mines, rhino hunts, illegal settlement etc as long as you grease the palms of certain politicians. Read all about it in Bakkes's Plunderwoestyn that came out last year.
    I agree but flip it is depressing. Similar with fishing along the East coast.

  13. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Earth
    Age
    41
    Posts
    2,680
    Thanked: 1892

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    Unfortunately there is far too many people that believe that their actions cannot have long lasting negative consequences.
    So they go and do things like this that has massive effect

    And then you have millions of those people out there
    Last edited by Veneficus; 2019/09/12 at 02:37 PM.
    2007 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
    Forester nutter here so watch out

    Please remember that I think I'm funny
    (most people don't agree)
    thus take 90% of what I post with 2 pinches of salt

  14. #10
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Brackenfell
    Age
    38
    Posts
    45
    Thanked: 56

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    It also happens while hiking. I see so much damage being caused and people just making a mess. It is so sad.
    2018 Mitsubishi Pajero Sport 4X4
    2016 Mazda CX-3 2.0 Dynamic Auto - Sold
    2012 VW Tiguan 2.0TDi Bluemotion - Sold
    2009 Ford Fiesta 1.6 Titanium 3 door - Sold

  15. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Benoni
    Age
    43
    Posts
    4,284
    Thanked: 584

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    Talking about hiking. Just did the 9 km Knysna forest one and the 9 km Robberg day hike.

    Unbelievable, - ladies leave toilet paper everywhere when doing their no 1 business. Cannot be that hard to take it with, burry it decently or not use any at all. Supposedly these are all people connected to nature, why else would they be doing 9 km hikes?
    2007 Touareg 3.0 V6 TDI (Facelift, Air, Rear Diff Lock, Rear Mounted Spare)
    2008 Audi A4 B8 2.0 TDI (Multitronic)
    2009 KTM 990 Adventure (Weekend Fun)
    2012 Imagine Trailvan 4-Sleeper

    * consumption needs to be seen in the context that the vehicle is towing an Imagine Trailvan 30% of the time


  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Kortgat For This Useful Post:


  17. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Doringkloof
    Age
    56
    Posts
    108
    Thanked: 74

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    1. too many people
    2. no consequences
    3. human rights
    4. selfishness
    It is a long road to eternity, enjoy the journey.

    Subaru XV Silver 2019 (Ghost In the Machine)

  18. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Wolfus For This Useful Post:


  19. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Gaborone
    Age
    69
    Posts
    6,758
    Thanked: 963

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    I think Walter has made a sensible observation and it is sad to see that the respect for nature is completely lost to some of those who claim they are liking it.

    In my early days of traveling the wild I also thought the tracks I make will be lost after the next strong wind gust as it happens when travelling in the Sahara.

    But unlike there, in Namibia there is some vegetation growing even in the most arid of areas and driving over it leaves a permanent depression and the tracks are still visible a few seasons later.

    I had to learn this and stick to existing tracks or drive in dry rivers whereas the seasonal flow will erase all traces of earlier visits.

    Now again, education and rules are the issue, and we all should know what is applicable for the Namib should automatically also be valid in the Kaokoland or Damaraland.

    So let's preach that once again for everybody to see DON'T DRIVE OFF THE EXISTING TRACKS and STICK TO THE ONES ALREADY THERE.

    The "fun part" most certainly influenced by a certain advert is not on in nature park or conservation areas, regardless of the makers of that advert saying they filmed it in a disused sand mine - which is not the message conveyed at all.
    Kalahari Safari
    ORRA Call: WB58 | ICASA ZRF430
    Nissan Patrol GU TB45
    | Nissan Safari GU TD42 | B'rakah 4x4 Trailer
    E34 - 535i for a bit of nostalgia
    E39 - 540i for the open roads

  20. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Kalahari Safari For This Useful Post:


  21. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Bloemfontein
    Age
    41
    Posts
    1,774
    Thanked: 1001

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    God's Window used to be a treat to visit: free entry, stunning vistas and forests. At the end of last year it burned badly, which exposed all the trash lying around. It really looks like a dumping site now. That's why Bourke's Luck charged R63 per person when we went there in February, to keep the trash (literally and figuratively) out. Even the Three Rondawels lookout charges for entry nowadays. I simply can't understand why people take dumps on day hikes, if you feel ANY need before then you go, if a need develops on the trail surely you can keep it in until after?
    2001 Gen 3 Pajero swb 3.2 Di-D

  22. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Windhoek
    Age
    57
    Posts
    1,717
    Thanked: 712

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    About a year ago one of the members of this forum posted a photograph of himself doing a "spirited U-turn" with his vehicle during their Namibian holiday .....

    I know Namibia better than most and had a good idea of where the photograph was taken. Then he posted more photographs of their trip and I downloaded them all. As the photographs still had their EXIF data it was then easy to place the specific photograph accurately as being on the plains just south of Amspoort.

    I visited the area a few months later to go and photograph the damage, and the attached photograph is one of several 100 I took in the area. The guys from Palmwag sent teams to go and repair the damage with rakes and brooms as best they could.

    Several posts were made about this matter on the Forum at the time and the reaction of some members to it was most revealing .....

    The fact remains that these areas are attracting the wrong type of visitors and the sad reality is that the only way to minimize these actions are to place a ban on all "self-drive" visitors to the area and only allow entry when in the company of registered concession-holding guides.

    Johan
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    2011 Daihatsu Terios 4x4
    2018 Isuzu KB300 Double Cab 4x4 Auto

  23. The Following 17 Users Say Thank You to J Snyman For This Useful Post:


  24. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Swakop
    Age
    36
    Posts
    4,807
    Thanked: 475

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    Quote Originally Posted by J Snyman View Post

    The fact remains that these areas are attracting the wrong type of visitors and the sad reality is that the only way to minimize these actions are to place a ban on all "self-drive" visitors to the area and only allow entry when in the company of registered concession-holding guides.
    Sad but true, and then later the people wonder why they are no longer allowed into these area's alone. Then the complaints start that it is just a money making scheme by operators etc but the fact is it was brought into effect to protect the area because people just have no respect or morals.

    I have had to sit on my hands a few times when I saw pics being posted of a fun day in the dunes, as I do a lot of work in our dunes I also recognise quite a few of the places where the pics were taken. And they are also places where special permission is required to enter, and for a reason.

    All this type of behaviour will eventually lead to more and more areas being closed, but unfortunately it will be only after the damage has been done.

    Will never forget quite a few years ago while visiting sossusvlei with clients, a guy comes up to myself and another guide while we were waiting for the clients to finish running up and down the dunes. This guy explained he is stuck on a small dune and asked if we could help him, of course, no problem. He takes us to his car, which was indeed stuck on a dune, on the wrong side of the "no go" barrier...we could see where he had flattened a pole to drive over the barrier

    we told him he needs to deflate and that we would do it for him. Pulled out all four his valves and reported him to the rangers...
    "Meerkat"
    Namboyz
    modded 02' 105 series 4.5efi (big wheeled petrol thief)


  25. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to AboutAfrica For This Useful Post:


  26. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Cape Town
    Age
    63
    Posts
    10,081
    Thanked: 2609

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    Part of the problem, as highlighted by some posters above, is that there is a proliferation of offroaders who see any wilderness area as a playground where they can go and test their "skills" without any shred of environmental awareness, or any attempt to educate themselves about the area to which they are going - whether it be a beach, or coastal dune with its incredibly rich ecosystem, or a desert.
    That fact is that the gravel plains of Damaraland and the Kaokoveld are a key part of the ecosystem, and much of it is covered by ancient lichens that are destroyed by a single pass of a vehicle. Back in the 1980s, people working in the area would point out tracks and say "that one was made by the rescue party going to help survivors of the wreck of the Dunedin Star during World War II" or "that's a new track, there must be poachers in the area". Nowadays, there is such a proliferation of eco-terrorists, for want of a better word, who have created tracks that will last hundreds of years, that it is fast becoming impossible to control.
    So sadly, yes, Johan, I think you are probably right that only controlled access may be allowed at some time in the near future.
    And that is why I reacted so strongly to the Toyota ad of drivers ripping up an apparent beach and which many people on this forum thought was absolutely OK, and that those of us who condemned it were (in their words) "snowflakes", "liberals", "nannies", "keyboard warriors" and various other epithets.
    Sad.
    ,
    Last edited by Tony Weaver; 2019/09/12 at 08:23 PM.
    Tony Weaver

    1991 Land Rover 110 Hi-Line S/W 3.5l V8 carburettor
    Cooper Discoverer STT tyres, four sleeper Echo rooftop tent
    2012 Mitsubishi Outlander.

    Previously Land Rover 1968 SII, 1969 SIIA, 1973 SIII, 1983 Toyota HiLux 2litre, 2006 Land Rover Freelander TD4 HSE.

  27. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Tony Weaver For This Useful Post:


  28. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2018
    Location
    Fraserburg
    Age
    60
    Posts
    513
    Thanked: 573

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    It seems that people buy off road vehicles for different reasons:

    1. There's the guy who wants to go places and see nature. These guys are generally sensitive about the environment.
    2. Farmers/persons who need a work vehicle for rough terrain.
    3. The guy that has the fully kitted vehicle that never goes anywhere near a dirt road. Parks on the pavement at supermarkets with brand new empty jerry cans and a brand new gas bottle on the roof rack when his trips never exceed the distance between two fuel stations. Hi lift jack on the side of the roofrack or at the rear where it can allow tons of dust to accumulate in the workings. Shovel and sand tracks compulsory on the roof rack. Narcissist and camel man inferiority complex.
    4. The guy that buys the vehicle thinking it's a sports car and kits it out with low profile tyres and accessories making it a bling wagen.
    5. Mom with the school run taxi. Used to ward of and intimidate aggressive taxi drivers.
    6. The yeeehaaaa! egotist type who is after self gratification and soothing his inferiority complex with a "look at me" type of vehicle and driving style. The type featured in the Hilux meerkat ad.
    7. The guy who knows nothing about an off road vehicle but buys one based on advertisements of 4x4's spraying water crossing rivers. and driving fast over rocks to parachute away from his pursuers. The bromance with the vehicle ends with the first repair bill after he tried what the ad showed his vehicle can do.

    Feel free to add types here.
    2001 Isuzu Frontier 4X4 DT280 LX 2.8 Turbo Diesel (Tourer)
    2011 JMC 4X4 Double Cab 2.8 Turbo Diesel (Work Bakkie)
    1973 Land Rover Series 2A 109" Ford V6 Kanniedood, Salisbury diff, galvanised chassis etc. (Hobby and Work vehicle)

  29. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Olyfboer For This Useful Post:


  30. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    East London
    Age
    66
    Posts
    4,454
    Thanked: 2757

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    I do not think any of us should be "sitting on our hands" when we witness acts of ecological carelessness on this forum. For what it might be worth, I will certainly back any such posts and I am sure many others will too.

    This does not imply that I or others, should behave or be regarded as "spietcops".
    Landcruiser 76SW.

    “Great journeys are memorable not so much for what you saw, but for where you camped”.

    At least "Once a year go someplace you have never been before" Delai Lama.

    Trans East Africa 2015/2016 Trip report http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...e16?highlight= from post 315.

  31. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Stan Weakley For This Useful Post:


  32. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    50
    Posts
    8,331
    Thanked: 3282

    Default Re: Just don't get some people...

    Quote Originally Posted by J Snyman View Post
    About a year ago one of the members of this forum posted a photograph of himself doing a "spirited U-turn" with his vehicle during their Namibian holiday .....

    Several posts were made about this matter on the Forum at the time and the reaction of some members to it was most revealing .....

    I remember that clearly as well as the reactions.

    Pretty much like the thread recently where the collective 'wisdom' is that is quite OK and do-able to overland and go off-road in a 4x2. Hell, it has difflock after all..... So it can obviously go where angels fear to tread.

    Bottom line is that the type of traveler has changed for the worse. For multiple reasons: easier access to areas, info easier available because of the digital age, morals, money.....whatever. I have said it before and took the flack. But I will keep saying it, because it IS the truth and that type of traveler WILL lead to the closure of areas.

    And it is not just individual travelers, I believe some unscrupulous 'guides' or 'tour operators' are just as guilty. There was a tour guide (still member on the forum and still a tour guide) who did all sort of wonderful things on the pans in Botswana a few years ago. The forum nearly turned into a blood bath with name calling and threats when some objected to these actions.

    Anyway, rant off.
    Last edited by lekhubu943; 2019/09/13 at 08:35 AM.
    2018 Toyota Fortuner 2.8 GD-6 4x4 AT
    BushLapa 78 Now a Boskruier but with the same Zambia and CKGR bush stripes


  33. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to lekhubu943 For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •