10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer - Page 2





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  1. #21
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    I do get the sense that the early 2000s stampede of everyone getting a 4x4, kitted like a xmas tree, is over. Now its just the Fortuner mommies left, but luckily no permanently mounted gasbottle missiles left.

    It comes back to a earlier question someone asked on the forum - have 4x4, what extras to put on immediately to make it "ready". The answer is nothing. It is ready. Clothing, water, recovery gear, basic tools and off you go. No need for the look-the-part stuff.
    Last edited by George; 2019/09/02 at 04:47 AM.
    Disclaimer - All my posts on this forum is without prejudice, is based on my fair assumptions or perceptions, is in no way intended to cause harm to anyone and is acted upon at your own discretion.

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    I've always tried to think of weight when packing stuff, however I don't have much experience buying food "out of country" so we often carry the food and drinks from the start which can really add up.
    I also don't believe in taking the whole house with you but I have a fairly light plywood drawer system just to keep things organised. I get frustrated searching for the item I need which has wiggled it's way to the very bottom of the crate you have put it in
    Taking out unnecessary seats always helps a bit too!
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    The wife and I did a 7 day offroad bike trip, 2000km with my trusty 1981 R80 G/s BMW.

    Ever since that trip, we've learned to pack properly. Hard to believe, but even the hairdryer went with.

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  6. #24
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    Quote Originally Posted by Naes-Landy View Post
    Here is our 12 ton monster with fully kitted kitchen in the rear. Burns a whopping 10L/100km.

    Attachment 539266Attachment 539267Attachment 539269

    Why don't we continue to post photos of our super lightweight 4x4 tourers and why we keep them light? I'm sure there're many more reasons why you should not go overlanding in a Mad Max tank.

    Our main reason is to save money for diesel so we can actually go somewhere. We've done nearly 40 000km with this setup and not really missed anything. Still haven't bothered with a fridge and all the expensive weighty gear needed to run it. We might do drawers, at some point. The only accessories I did add, after a good few thousand k's, was the alu roof rack, ladder and gas holder.
    That to me is the true spirit of overlanding. Travel light, travel far. Same on foot.

    Are you using a cooler box and if so, what make, size etc and how do you find it's performance?
    Last edited by Estee; 2019/09/02 at 07:40 AM.
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  8. #25
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    All of my vehicles have been bog standard right down to the tires, ATs. Only recently have I made a ''modification'' due to space constraints. The boot of the H3 is small compared to the Discos and Range Rovers and it is a bugger to load groceries as bags had to be piled on top of each other, not a problem in the Range Rover as I cant reach the seat.

    Anyhoo, I built this recently as it serves a double purpose, the first is I can put heavy shopping like spuds, charcoal, HTH etc in the area where the boxes are and lighter stuff at the top without crushing delicate items. The second is obviously the two Wolfpacks it can hold with kitchen items when I camp.

    The small opening on the right will have a take off point for some LED lights and cell charger etc, powered by 2x 12v 7.2 batts in parallel. I have always used a bog standard Coleman Cooler and I am not considering a fridge anytime soon. I normally hammock with a tarp or use a ground tent.

    So a hammock, tarp, cooler, a single burner cartridge stove, mess kit, water container and a bag of cloths is usually how I roll.
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    There is no such thing as inclement weather, only poor selection of clothing.... or Vehicle

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  10. #26
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    That to me is the true spirit of overlanding. Travel light, travel far. Same on foot.

    Are you using a cooler box and if so, what make, size etc and how do you find it's performance?
    We've gone all out, we actually have 2 cooler boxes, I think one is a Coleman, no idea of the litre size though. Not really sure how to gage their performance either, except that a bag or 2 of ice might last about 24 hrs, unless we're in the Richtersveld in mid summer. (My avatar was taken there) Otherwise we go days without it being cold inside them, at least until we find ice again. When we find ice, we might get, read spoil ourselves with some cheese, cold sliced meats or other such products, with the intention of finishing it before the ice melts. I get cold beer from the camp shop / bars, the rest of the time we drink papsak red. Otherwise they are more often just used for dry storage. Quite frankly I think fridges in a 4x4 are a luxury, not a necessity. By all means get one if you must, it's your money. I'm just sharing how we roll.

    Looking at your 'drawer system' in the pic above, we have 2 black plastic meat trays from Crazy Plastics, about 100 Rond each. They slide quite easily on the carpet. I do need to somehow reinforce that plywood plank a bit, but once the meat trays are in, the plank rests on them, so it will never break while driving.
    Last edited by Naes-Landy; 2019/09/02 at 08:34 AM.
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    Had a client with the VERY heavily kitted Patrol. He wanted to add quite a few things. I did a calculation for him and said that I wouldn't fit it as it was already overloaded.

    He simply went to another fitment shop who supplied and fitted what he wanted. So - yes - some guys will advise you properly - others will just sell and fit.
    Gavin

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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    Quote Originally Posted by Naes-Landy View Post
    Quite frankly I think fridges in a 4x4 are a luxury, not a necessity. By all means get one if you must, it's your money.
    I must say, Im tending to agree with this lately. I have a second battery and fridge, it was awesome to have ice cold beers constantly in the heat of the Botswana bush, BUT, that was two years ago now. All the other places we have been to since have a shop close by where ice could be replaced everyday if Id like.

    In the meantime, the second battery died a massive death soon after we returned from the bots trip, and the fridge is collecting dust in the garage. And we havent gotten started on the added risk of more cables running through the vehicle.

    Those were the most expensive beers Ive ever drank on that Botswana trip!!
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    Quote Originally Posted by reflex View Post
    I've always tried to think of weight when packing stuff, however I don't have much experience buying food "out of country" so we often carry the food and drinks from the start which can really add up.
    I also don't believe in taking the whole house with you but I have a fairly light plywood drawer system just to keep things organised. I get frustrated searching for the item I need which has wiggled it's way to the very bottom of the crate you have put it in
    Taking out unnecessary seats always helps a bit too!
    this is the biggest issue we have as South Africans overlanding. We take everything with us from home.

    I consider myself a pretty dedicated foodie. I love food, and my favorite part of planning a trip is planning the menu. We as a rule have 3 course gourmet dinners every night on a camping trip. To achieve this, we need to plan very well, and take a pretty big load of ingredients from home. But we also buy a hell of a lot locally, and adjust the menu accordingly based on what we can source. Fact is, the world north of our borders isnít really that remote. Thereís woolworths foods in manter locations in Botswana, Spar is pretty much everywhere. Local bakeries in moz have amazing fresh bread. You can get fresh veg in pretty much every village in Africa. Meat in supermarkets in Bots and Namibia is significantly cheaper than locally, and cheap as chips.

    Beer and Coca Cola are available everywhere.

    You only really get the true experience of a place when you start shopping like the locals. You will find some gems in local fresh produce markets, and instead of just enriching your self with the experience of visiting these places, you actually pump some hard cash directly into the local economy

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  17. #30
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    Well said

    My group of friends and to a degree myself feel comfortable with the same foodstuffs that we use at home. Especially as you get a bit older and you are watching your blood sugar, cholesterol, blood pressure and weight. You also tend to get a bit picky over what wine and spirits and stick to brands you know. Food and drink are the biggest headache of my overlanding planning.
    Lusted for a Landy but the Pajero was sexier and bigger in the right departments, just like my Missus.

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  19. #31
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    As far as long range tanks go, remembering they too cost money and add weight to your vehicle when full, I have managed many successful trips from Cape Town, to Maputo, to Swakop, to Vic Falls and everything in between with a range of only 700km in more than one type of vehicle.

    To this day I have only ever once run out of diesel while overlanding, and it was my fault. I was in a 16ton truck which also only had a range of 700km. I thought I'd be nice to the company and save a few Pula's by waiting to fill up in Nambia, and I was being lazy. I ignored and passed a fuel station in Bots when I could have thrown a few litres. When I got to Divundu it was dry, which happens often enough, and I knew this. I pressed on and ran out 15km before Katima. Had cell signal, so I made some calls, and a plan was made. Took a few hours. I then just chilled in my truck, alone on the Caprivi strip, and did not see an animal or another human for 6 hours. I think 3 or 4 vehicles passed in that time. I also had FM radio, The Sharks were playing Die Blou Bulle...I still made it to Kasane in time to collect my clients who had flown over the Delta.

    Point is, and based on my extensive experience, a range of 700-800 km will do you just fine in southern Africa. But if your LC or Defender needs 200L to go that far, it's too heavy. My 16ton truck had 200L, and my Landy has 2x 20L jerries and the 45L in the main tank, that got/gets me 700km in both vehicles. My rule of thumb is that you should not have to take more than double what the factory fitted tank can hold in order to cover 800km.
    Last edited by Naes-Landy; 2019/09/02 at 10:01 AM.
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    Long range tanks are a bit of a tough one. For the average overland trip they probably arenít required. Even for more off the beaten track trips, 2 jerry cans extra will probably suffice, but sometimes you need a bit more than that.

    I tend to to travel pretty remotely. I like to get to a place that is often 200 or 300km from the last filling station, and then spend a week or so exploring the area. That is just not possible without 200+ liters of fuel.

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  23. #33
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    Quote Originally Posted by RPiet View Post
    Long range tanks are a bit of a tough one. For the average overland trip they probably arenít required. Even for more off the beaten track trips, 2 jerry cans extra will probably suffice, but sometimes you need a bit more than that.

    I tend to to travel pretty remotely. I like to get to a place that is often 200 or 300km from the last filling station, and then spend a week or so exploring the area. That is just not possible without 200+ liters of fuel.
    I'll be honest, we've done lots of kilos, but mostly the beaten track routes, with the trucks and the Landy. But when that changes, and it's going to, we will want to take a few more litres for the Landy as Swambo and I are on our own itinerary now. (We stopped with the trucks years ago. Yes, I married my tour leader )

    This one particular overland company I drove for thought it a good idea to fit extra 500L tanks, so another 600kg of weight. This was over and above the factory 200L. With a range of 2500km, I went days and lost count of how many fuel stations I passed. In other words, completely unnecessary. I of course didn't really complain, because it meant I didn't have to refuel so often. My thought was they could have taken this extra money spent on the tank and added it to my salary instead.
    Last edited by Naes-Landy; 2019/09/02 at 10:40 AM.
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  24. #34
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    Thanks for the video, I have the same argument with my brother.

    Which brings me to "
    Same reasons why you should NOT build or tow a Heavy TRAILER".

    There was a thread started the other day - are trailer manufacturers going overboard with heavy trailers. I said yes and was shot down by many people especially those making trailers.

    My trailer was made in 1987, and has done many, many 4x4 trips (some as long as 20 000kms) and serves as a standard luggage trailer for everyday use, still going strong today.

    On all our trips the tow vehicle was always loaded very lightly, kids had the back of the bakkie as a play pen and before kids it was our bedroom.

    weight is a killer. KISS.



    Also to have a 4x4 or trailer that can't be used daily or often, is a total waste.

    To spend R150 000-R200 000 on upgrading a 4x4 with accessories that can't be used daily...…… It is a lot of petrol and camp fees money.

    We learn the hard way, we carried everything . Motorbike touring and hiking taught me to travel light.
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  26. #35
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    In terms of our expedition packing list, an easy way to decide on what to pack is to lay everything we had in mind on the garage floor. Then we divide the kit into two: on one side the stuff that we could not do without, and on the other side the stuff that would be nice to have. The former goes into our vehicle, and the latter we leave at home.

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  28. #36
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    Post Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    Interesting video, Interesting thread.

    None of my trips are bound to rules of kit and load carrying.

    Some trips I just took a my pop up tent and the bare miniimals. It all depends how serious the trip is. I do the Namib and dunes as light as possible.

    Did a wild camp trip last year. Out in the bundu`s with no fresh water and the nearest town about 100km. No way of filling and stock up every day or two. This trip had me took along 300l of water, two fridges with food and drinks for 14 days. All the other kit and stuff for such a trip. Had the 79 and 76 loaded to limits.

    Traveling light is easy even fitting the minimum accessories when needed. It all depends on your mission and trip.

    I have done some serious trips where the need of big tyers is a must. We have 4x4`s fitted with 35`s and 33`s only people that have not done serious 4x4 trails will question their use. 35`s smooth out corrugations like you never believe. Serious sand trails do I really need to comment on the advantages of large tyres.

    You stack and pack a 4x4 to the needs of the trip you do. Travelling Bots and other African nations you can plan your route to stock up everyday.

    But then there are some trips I will not do without the max vehicle protection like bash plates, rock sliders, heavy duty after market bumpers, a winch and all those nice to haves. We did Road to Hell in April this year. Had a 4x4 snapped a front CV at the most critical obstacle on the trail. Think the recovery were close to 6 hours. It could not have been done without winches fitted to 4x4`s.
    The stuck vehicle and one of the members in the group had winches fitted. That saved the day.
    My 79 have a winch. I have a 12T Warn lying in my shop. That will go on the 76 soon.

    So yes shrugging off weight on your 4x4 and traveling light have their advantages. I rather goes a little over kitted than under kitted knowing I can limit the dangers and ease my trip.
    Last edited by grips; 2019/09/02 at 10:43 PM.
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  30. #37
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    Quote Originally Posted by Poen View Post
    I found this video very thought provoking.

    Remember the old Nedbank advert? - "Makes you think, doesn't it!"
    Definitely agree.

    He's probably my favourite 4x4 Youtuber. Level-headed, has fun, but not at the expense of his entire vehicle each time. He has a wealth of knowledge and portrays it pretty well.

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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    Quote Originally Posted by Leon Venter View Post
    Ja dit is die ding te veel onnodige goed wat mense op hulle 4x4 sit en saam vat en dan word die helfte nooit eers gebruik nie.
    Ek self probeer om nie onnodige goed wat ek nie gaan gebruik saam met my te vat nie al kan my 4x4 die gewig dra.
    Dan ry die meeste met al daardie toebehore (daktent, graaf, Jerry kanne en high-lift jacks, ens. en gewig elke dag werk toe! 'n Missiel op wield.

  32. #39
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    Interesting video, Interesting thread.

    None of my trips are bound to rules of kit and load carrying.

    Some trips I just took a my pop up tent and the bare miniimals. It all depends how serious the trip is. I do the Namib and dunes as light as possible.

    Did a wild camp trip last year. Out in the bundu`s with no fresh water and the nearest town about 100km. No way of filling and stock up every day or two. This trip had me took along 300l of water, two fridges with food and drinks for 14 days. All the other kit and stuff for such a trip. Had the 79 and 76 loaded to limits.

    Traveling light is easy even fitting the minimum accessories when needed. It all depends on your mission and trip.

    I have done some serious trips where the need of big tyers is a must. We have 4x4`s fitted with 35`s and 33`s only people that have not done serious 4x4 trails will question their use. 35`s smooth out corrugations like you never believe. Serious sand trails do I really need to comment on the advantages of large tyres.

    You stack and pack a 4x4 to the needs of the trip you do. Travelling Bots and other African nations you can plan your route to stock up everyday.

    But then there are some trips I will not do without the max vehicle protection like bash plates, rock sliders, heavy duty after market bumpers, a winch and all those nice to haves. We did Road to Hell in April this year. Had a 4x4 snapped a front CV at the most critical obstacle on the trail. Think the recovery were close to 6 hours. It could not have been done without winches fitted to 4x4`s.
    The stuck vehicle and one of the members in the group had winches fitted. That saved the day.
    My 79 have a winch. I have a 12T Warn lying in my shop. That will go on the 76 soon.

    So yes shrugging off weight on your 4x4 and traveling light have their advantages. I rather goes a little over kitted than under kitted knowing I can limit the dangers and ease my trip.
    I think the point of the video and thread and you are making is, that any kit or accessories you DON'T use should be left at home. In your case bumpers, large tyres, bash plates and winches do make sense, as you do trips where you potentially need them.
    However if all you do is travel gravel roads to Etosha, a standard vehicle will do and you will be better off without all those accessories.

    Also, I'm convinced that a great many people in general are not aware off the legal payload their vehicle still got after they leave the yard of the fitment centre.
    It all adds up, even replacing the OEM tyres, which often are HT or light AT tyres with some decent LT spec rugged ATs or MTs OF THE SAME SIZE can already add 50 - 70 kg to the empty weight. There are lots of hidden weights in modifying and accessorizing a vehicle.
    Last edited by HugoNotte; 2019/09/09 at 09:44 AM.
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  34. #40
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    Default Re: 10 Reasons Why you should NOT build a Heavy 4WD Tourer

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister4 View Post
    Very good video Poen!

    My no.10 would be oversize tires. Those oversize tire's makes a car handle and drive like a pig, and increases fuel consumption and stopping distances.
    Very good point and a catch 22 all depending on the types of terrain and driving you'll be doing.

    I've fallen victim to this on the Defender. You get addicted to the big wheel grip and traction performance but you end up paying for it with broken drivetrain parts, poor handling and worse fuel economy.
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