This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok





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  1. #1
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    Default This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    My second Amarok has now reached 221 k km, and still grows on me, which is the reason I am staring this thread. Let me just from the start say, I have nothing against the Ford Ranger, and it would probably be my second choice DC.

    The news that VW is considering (or decided) to base the next Amarok on the Ranger is just bad news for me, and over this past weekend I discussed the issue with two other Amarok owners. They echoed my sentiments. The identity of the Amarok being German engineered would be gone.

    I do not only think, but know VW is going to learn the X class/ Navara lesson all over again. I think the problem started with VW marketing the Amarok under the Commercial umbrella. Under this umbrella it would not be strange to have joint agreements with other manufacturers, as these are after all commercial vehicles were identity does not count that much, but rather dealer network and back up. The Amarok should be falling under the passenger vehicle umbrella, because essentially (the DC) it is bought as an alternative to an SUV and therefore a family passenger vehicle with off road capabilities and practicality. It has drawn customers like me based on the identity of it being a thoroughbred VW. In other words many of the customers like me are brand ambassadors (having owned, and still owning 10 other VW products). The Fordrok will definitely not appeal to us, and may even lead someone like me to move away from the brand in total.

    I am feeling so strong about this, that I believe those VW enthusiasts who echoes my sentiments, should join me in sending e-mails to the VW CEO in voicing our opinion about this issue. VW please wake up and have a serious chat with your brand marketing department. You are going to lose customers, and it will not only be restricted to Amarok buyers.

    Groetnis

    Koos

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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    The days of VAG building over engineered vehicles with little expense spared are gone. Dieselgate etc. has cost them a lot of money and it's now an era of savings. It's simply much cheaper to develop a vehicle together with another major player. Their products going forward are not going to be what they used to be, my best guess is that everything is being done with cost savings at the forefront whilst trying to push perceived quality.
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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    Quote Originally Posted by Kortgat View Post
    The days of VAG building over engineered vehicles with little expense spared are gone. Dieselgate etc. has cost them a lot of money and it's now an era of savings. It's simply much cheaper to develop a vehicle together with another major player. Their products going forward are not going to be what they used to be, my best guess is that everything is being done with cost savings at the forefront whilst trying to push perceived quality.
    Exactly my point. The money they think they are going to save in development, will be all lost as a result of low sales volumes resulting in lower EBITDA for this specific model line up. We are then not even calculating the damage done to brand loyalty. As I said, there is no better example than the x-class fiasco.

    Groetnis

    Koos

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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    I am still surprised that Merc and VW haven't work together on the Amarok / Xclass. They have done very succesfully so with the Sprinter / Crafter buses.

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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    Quote Originally Posted by Beurvoort View Post
    Exactly my point. The money they think they are going to save in development, will be all lost as a result of low sales volumes resulting in lower EBITDA for this specific model line up. We are then not even calculating the damage done to brand loyalty.

    Groetnis

    Koos
    The bold statement is still hypothetical though: people might like the outcome of this collaboration. I think it's too early to say.

    Brand loyalty: I am not a fan as it is not a 'two way' relationship.

    You are loyal to the brand and you buy their product.

    The 'brand' gladly takes your cash but it's not loyal to you, in fact it doesn't even know who you are.

    In half a century of life I have seen many good products but I have not come across a brand that deserves my loyalty.

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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    Quote Originally Posted by tashtego9 View Post
    The bold statement is still hypothetical though: people might like the outcome of this collaboration. I think it's too early to say.

    Brand loyalty: I am not a fan as it is not a 'two way' relationship.

    You are loyal to the brand and you buy their product.

    The 'brand' gladly takes your cash but it's not loyal to you, in fact it doesn't even know who you are.

    In half a century of life I have seen many good products but I have not come across a brand that deserves my loyalty.
    I should have said "in my opinion". Each to his own, but I have experienced good value for money or money well spent with the VW brand, from the young age of 18 years until now. Never had reason to look elsewhere. For some of us that which we drive is not just a means of transport.

    Groetnis

    Koos

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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    Ek het 'n paar Ford gehad vanaf 1973 en my eerste VW GTI was die 1981 model daarna het 'n paar Fords en VW gekom met 'n Legend 35 en 'n Fortuner (Om Moer Kar wat 'n stuk rubbish) en toe die Ranger 3.2 met 2 Polo TDI 74.96kw staan nou op die erf..

    My siening is dat dis nie 'n slagte idee as vervaardigers saamwerk en iets goed op die mark sit nie..Ranger met 'n VW 2lt/V6 met daai 8 spoed of Ford se 10 spoed auto mag werk ...Dan die ander punt is, koop die rygoed en maak jou stelling of....
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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    Quote Originally Posted by tashtego9 View Post
    You are loyal to the brand and you buy their product.

    The 'brand' gladly takes your cash but it's not loyal to you, in fact it doesn't even know who you are.

    In half a century of life I have seen many good products but I have not come across a brand that deserves my loyalty.
    Absolutely agree with this.

    I was a complete Toyota fan/supporter and all my vehicles was bought from the local Toyota dealer in my town (my dad as well). I was litterally on a first-name basis with most of their salespersons. Then one day, I walked onto their floor, asking for suggestions for a Toyota bakkie (keep in mind that all my Toyota choices/bought vehicles started small and grew up as I progressed in my profession). They laughed and said I could not afford a bakkie. It pissed me off so much that I went home without even bothering to look their vehicles.

    And then, via internet, contacted the various car dealers if they can bring a demo bakkie to me for a personal hands-on experience and private time with sales persons. Everyone from Isuzu, VW and Ford (twice, from 2 different dealers!) arrived with brand-new bakkies at my work. Two of these dealers even loaned a bakkie to me, for a week. Heard nothing from Toyota, ever.

    Made my choice, bought it, and about a month later, I visited the Toyota dealer in my town, to drop my dad off to retrieve his car from their workshop. And the facial expressions of the salespersons (when they saw/found out) told me a lot.

    What was even more impressive for me, was the salesperson of the brand that I bought, did their utmost to keep me happy and informed (on recalls, offroad drive tests, workshop follow-ups, etc) and remained regularly in contact with me via email (no advertisements, just inquiries/general chats) to make sure that I am happy. I never had that in the 15-something years I was with Toyota. And I am deaf.

    By the way, I am/was just as equally impressed with the VW bakkie (but it was just outside my budget - however, friends of mine have their Amarok's). We regularly go together on 4x4 tours. All I am saying is that it is not about the brand, but the support/service.

    Sorry for derailing the original topic.
    Last edited by GroenHoender; 2019/08/19 at 11:01 AM.

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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    Correct me if I am wrong but as far as I understand the VW Amarok drives on a derivative of the old Navara chassis?

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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    Quote Originally Posted by Beurvoort View Post
    Exactly my point. The money they think they are going to save in development, will be all lost as a result of low sales volumes resulting in lower EBITDA for this specific model line up. We are then not even calculating the damage done to brand loyalty. As I said, there is no better example than the x-class fiasco.

    Groetnis

    Koos

    No offence, but it's not like thousands of Amaroks roll of the floor every month. June saw 225 Amarok sales only - maybe with a reduced price the sales may increase?
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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    No offence, but it's not like thousands of Amaroks roll of the floor every month. June saw 225 Amarok sales only - maybe with a reduced price the sales may increase?
    Uys that is what I am trying to say in my post above. The figures is not 100% correct but about 80 000 Amaroks sold world wide per year vs 350 000 Ford Rangers.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    Uys that is what I am trying to say in my post above. The figures is not 100% correct but about 80 000 Amaroks sold world wide per year vs 350 000 Ford Rangers.
    In terms of models that may be the case, but in terms of components, not. How many of those 2l diesels have been produced and used (shared) in other VW (and Audi) vehicles? And steering wheels, and light switches, and airbags, and chassis, and so I can continue. So looking at sales in SA only, or at one model/range only, might be a narrow perspective.

    BUT, as in all industries, every penny counts.

    AND, don't make the mistake and think that the big motor corporations do not make huge mistakes. MB bakkie and dieselgate comes to the recent mind.

    So, although the relevant collaboration may seem to make economic sense, let's hope it will not go down in history as one of the huge mistakes.



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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    Quote Originally Posted by Uys View Post
    No offence, but it's not like thousands of Amaroks roll of the floor every month. June saw 225 Amarok sales only - maybe with a reduced price the sales may increase?
    Uys, as Grips stated, give or take some but 80 000 Amaroks per year is a viable number. Compare that to less than 17 000 X class per year worldwide. In any case, as per my original post, this is not a Ranger vs Amarok issue. This is about the unique (to me) identity of the Amarok being lost.

    Groetnis

    Koos
    Last edited by Beurvoort; 2019/08/13 at 07:59 AM.

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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    We are moving in the direction where individual car ownership will not be the norm.

    Cars will become like a Uber utility, you "hire" the (driverless) car for a trip.

    So cars will not be tailored to individual likes/ dislikes but rather a vehicle that is cheap to manufacture, maintain and run.

    Just a matter of time, 10 years or do in Europe, USA.

    I'm sure VW, Ford, Toyota will collaborate more closely going forward.
    Last edited by NewLandy; 2019/08/13 at 07:43 AM.

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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    Quote Originally Posted by Kortgat View Post
    The days of VAG building over engineered vehicles with little expense spared are gone. Dieselgate etc. has cost them a lot of money and it's now an era of savings. It's simply much cheaper to develop a vehicle together with another major player. Their products going forward are not going to be what they used to be, my best guess is that everything is being done with cost savings at the forefront whilst trying to push perceived quality.
    Why would it be perceived quality?

    If VW are going to push a new bakkie, whether in collaboration with Ford or any other manufacturer, they sure as hell will make sure it's still a quality product. At this stage, after all the Dieselgate losses they can't afford to have impressions of lower quality floating around, I think.
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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    Quote Originally Posted by Kortgat View Post
    The days of VAG building over engineered vehicles with little expense spared are gone. Dieselgate etc. has cost them a lot of money and it's now an era of savings. It's simply much cheaper to develop a vehicle together with another major player. Their products going forward are not going to be what they used to be, my best guess is that everything is being done with cost savings at the forefront whilst trying to push perceived quality.
    Goedkoper vir die vervaardigers ja, maar nie vir die kopers nie. Meer wins vir die vervaardigers dit is al

    Tweedens met die verkope: hou in gedagte Amarok verkoop net dubbel kajuit bakkies, en hoe vergelyk dit met die ander make
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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    Dom vraag. Maar wie se VW gaan ford engines ens gebruik. Gaan dit mie n geval wees dat Ford VW se engines ens gaan gebruik nie. So alles Amarok dan net n Ford dop. Soos Merc gemaak het.

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    Arrow Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    Quote Originally Posted by Erwin Schimper View Post
    Dom vraag. Maar wie se VW gaan ford engines ens gebruik. Gaan dit mie n geval wees dat Ford VW se engines ens gaan gebruik nie. So alles Amarok dan net n Ford dop. Soos Merc gemaak het.
    Ek verstaan die nuwe ford 2.lt is reeds n vw engine


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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    Quote Originally Posted by hein100 View Post
    Ek verstaan die nuwe ford 2.lt is reeds n vw engine
    Ek dink nie so nie. Waar het jy dit gehoor?

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    Default Re: This VW/Ford NON-SENSE regarding Amarok

    Quote Originally Posted by hein100 View Post
    Ek verstaan die nuwe ford 2.lt is reeds n vw engine
    Nie waar nie. Dis iewers op hierdie forum, kompleet met web skakel, genoem dat dit 'n volledige, unieke nuwe enjin is, totaal onafhanklik ontwerp/gebou - niks met VW te doen nie. Die feit dat dit bi-turbo's het, is maar net deel van die tegnologie wat altyd aan die improviseer is.

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