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Thread: Unemployment

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Spook View Post
    There is so many opinions around unemployment, ie. who are employable, who are not, which schools are the best, etc.

    BUT

    Just help me understand why a 32 year old qualified B Tech Quantity Surveyor can not find a job in the entire South Africa
    Our economy is down. There are jobs around but not necessarily on one specific field. Today everybody has to be flexible. Study constantly, forget specific working hours, cut down on salary demand... I cannot list different "professions" I have done over 30 years. But one thing I can say is that I have not worked one day on my MSc field. It has been handy to have.

    If no job in SA then contract work outside.
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  3. #42
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Hannes View Post
    Maybe he went to a private school?
    Nope - Model C
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Spook View Post
    Nope - Model C
    That was just a joke.

    Being without work is terrible.

    Good advice given widen your horizons.

    Try anything be willing to do anything.

    Good luck
    Yizwa imithandazo yethu,

  5. #44
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Tweeling View Post
    and if you dare differ, and put your opinion you get a PM (i expected that) that I didn't read
    From who. ?
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  6. #45
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Jouko View Post
    As I remember one forum member gave numbers/info for Bloemfontein. C type better results than private school kids.

    Edit: I see above is some of the info.
    I wonder how they measure that, seeing as they write COMPLETLEY different exams.

    Off course they get better results. Model C as good as they may or may not be write SA NSC local exams dumbed down to pass everybody, private write international standard IEB which is internationally accredited with SATS and even Ivy League.

    ------------------------

    But back on topic. I still call rubbish that private schools are the cause of unemployment.
    Cheers

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  7. #46
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Just to put education into perspective, all Govt schools now write the same exams, so the Govt Schools are effectively all Model C. And yes all dumbed down and they only teach what is necessary for the kids to pass.

  8. #47
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    It used to be that employers understood that new appointments have to be trained until competent according to company policies. This implied that once you are appointed you will go through a learning curve and not be immediately profitable to the company.

    Having a degree was some form of proof that you had the ability to learn and that you can complete challenging tasks.

    Nowadays employers don't want to spend on training. Job ads are written in such a manner that if you don't already have master skills in each and every point in the job description you don't qualify to apply. This includes internal software used by the company.

    Meaning that if you aren't an existing employee you stand no chance when applying.
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  9. #48
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by albertvl View Post
    It used to be that employers understood that new appointments have to be trained until competent according to company policies. This implied that once you are appointed you will go through a learning curve and not be immediately profitable to the company.

    Having a degree was some form of proof that you had the ability to learn and that you can complete challenging tasks.

    Nowadays employers don't want to spend on training. Job ads are written in such a manner that if you don't already have master skills in each and every point in the job description you don't qualify to apply. This includes internal software used by the company.

    Meaning that if you aren't an existing employee you stand no chance when applying.
    I disagree completely appoint for character and train for skills.

    The challenge is how to effectively evaluate character.
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  11. #49
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by albertvl View Post
    ......Nowadays employers don't want to spend on training...
    Nope disagree. Our company (IT) have always preferred to hire with no experience and basic IT qualifications. We train and encourage everyone to keep studying. Our best developers started like this.

    However 18 months ago we hired 3 web developers with diplomas. Today they are still useless despite continious training and just plain hand holding and spoon feeding. They have not produced any work as yet which can be used for profit and will not for who knows how long. There seems to be bugger all learning curve. They are formatted every Monday morning!

    Getting rid of them is a long process because labour laws protect the useless not the employer who is trying to grow a profitable business and create more positions.

    That is how unemployment grows. We rather promote internally with people we know.
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  12. #50
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Spook View Post
    There is so many opinions around unemployment, ie. who are employable, who are not, which schools are the best, etc.

    BUT

    Just help me understand why a 32 year old qualified B Tech Quantity Surveyor can not find a job in the entire South Africa
    Simple unfortunately Spook, supply and demand. The construction industry has been decimated in the past few years and employers are spoiled for choice, QS's are a dime a dozen at the moment unlike 5 years ago when they could name their price. The QS's who have a job are not going anywhere so there are no new vacancies being created.

    My son did a BA in HR, the year after he graduated the market trend by business was to hire black HR practitioners, degree'd or not, as part of the political correctness of BEE. He could not get a job for love nor money. He changed careers and is doing well in distribution.

    In this situation young professionals are resorting to contracts overseas as a means of intermediate employment.

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  14. #51
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Spook View Post
    There is so many opinions around unemployment, ie. who are employable, who are not, which schools are the best, etc.

    BUT

    Just help me understand why a 32 year old qualified B Tech Quantity Surveyor can not find a job in the entire South Africa

    First of all, there are quite a few Architechts and QS's in circulation. One can see that at tender briefing meetings for the different disciplines.

    When Arch and QS comes up the rooms are packed and there are not enough seats.

    For Civils and Structural, it is still pretty full, but there are less.

    Electrical Engineering even less and Mechanical Engineering usually a hand or two full.


    Secondly, the construction industry is in total tatters. Since beginning last year large construction projects were simply stopped. Nothing new came out.

    You can see that in the shares exchange prices of the 5 largest construction companies in South Africa. Some are now in Business Rescue programs and it seems indications are there that Group5 is going bust.


    https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/co...be-collapsing/

    https://www.businessinsider.co.za/wb...ruction-2019-3


    When the construction industry takes that kind of knock, there is serious trouble.
    Last edited by biltong; 2019/05/19 at 07:06 PM.
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  16. #52
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Spook View Post
    There is so many opinions around unemployment, ie. who are employable, who are not, which schools are the best, etc.

    BUT

    Just help me understand why a 32 year old qualified B Tech Quantity Surveyor can not find a job in the entire South Africa
    I see Biltong has since answered with a similar response but I'll post anyway:

    The construction industry is probably in the worst place it has ever been in SA. In the late 90s we thought it was bad with interest rates hovering at around 25%. In 2008 there was a significant slump which recovered relatively quickly, thankfully. We are now deep into one of the worst recessions with several construction companies having had to close their doors as per Biltong links.

    Developers rely on a positive market sentiment to push the button on developments. Unfortunately we have found ourselves in the normal 10 year down cycle coupled with other mitigating factors such as uncertainty (for whatever reasons), the consequences of corruption and general negativity.

    The advice Id give the 32 yr old Btech QS is to approach a professional practice or a large construction company and offer to work free of charge. His or her qualification is not the issue, the industry is just not in a healthy place right now. It will improve, of that here is no doubt. When it does turn they will be 6 months ahead of the curve.

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  18. #53
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Spook View Post
    There is so many opinions around unemployment, ie. who are employable, who are not, which schools are the best, etc.

    BUT

    Just help me understand why a 32 year old qualified B Tech Quantity Surveyor can not find a job in the entire South Africa
    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Hannes View Post
    Maybe he went to a private school?
    .
    Last edited by JohnnoK; 2019/05/20 at 01:59 AM.
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  19. #54
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal Hannes View Post
    That was just a joke.

    Being without work is terrible.

    Good advice given widen your horizons.

    Try anything be willing to do anything.

    Good luck
    .
    Yizwa imithandazo yethu,

  20. #55
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Leigh View Post
    Simple unfortunately Spook, supply and demand. The construction industry has been decimated in the past few years and employers are spoiled for choice, QS's are a dime a dozen at the moment unlike 5 years ago when they could name their price. The QS's who have a job are not going anywhere so there are no new vacancies being created.

    My son did a BA in HR, the year after he graduated the market trend by business was to hire black HR practitioners, degree'd or not, as part of the political correctness of BEE. He could not get a job for love nor money. He changed careers and is doing well in distribution.

    In this situation young professionals are resorting to contracts overseas as a means of intermediate employment.
    A thing all our youngsters should learn is to maybe study with their BRAIN and not with their HEART.

    What do I mean by this?
    Maybe study in a direction where there is clear DEMAND, not in a direction that your romantic notions determine. Why study Fine Arts when there is clearly very little demand for those skills except from other aspiring artists? Rather have your art as a HOBBY and do something like Graphic Design as a career?
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  22. #56
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by lekhubu943 View Post
    Nope disagree. Our company (IT) have always preferred to hire with no experience and basic IT qualifications. We train and encourage everyone to keep studying. Our best developers started like this.

    However 18 months ago we hired 3 web developers with diplomas. Today they are still useless despite continious training and just plain hand holding and spoon feeding. They have not produced any work as yet which can be used for profit and will not for who knows how long. There seems to be bugger all learning curve. They are formatted every Monday morning!

    Getting rid of them is a long process because labour laws protect the useless not the employer who is trying to grow a profitable business and create more positions.

    That is how unemployment grows. We rather promote internally with people we know.
    My wife constantly tries to employ young graduates as software developers. Some of these people will fall foul of the new CV laws, because the amount of lies I've seen is stunning. "2 years C# developer experience" but they can't debug a simple script.
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  23. #57
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Tweeling View Post
    and if you dare differ, and put your opinion you get a PM (i expected that) that I didn't read
    Yep, I often get that.
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  24. #58
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    A thing all our youngsters should learn is to maybe study with their BRAIN and not with their HEART.

    What do I mean by this?
    Maybe study in a direction where there is clear DEMAND, not in a direction that your romantic notions determine. Why study Fine Arts when there is clearly very little demand for those skills except from other aspiring artists? Rather have your art as a HOBBY and do something like Graphic Design as a career?
    I try to tell youngsters what jelo is saying. I add also "look at the money". It is basically the same/repeat. Where there is demand there is better pay. To females I tell to study on a field where majority of people working are males. Especially considering the current laws there is a definite benefit.

    The issue of wrong studies is a problem in many countries. We were in a small town 4 years in Finland. We could not count how many hair dresses there were. It should be compulsory to make a business plan on what going to study

    The world has changed. By the time person finishes his/her studies with a paper in hand better to start looking for the next study. Times when person started one form of a job and retired from that are in the past.
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  25. #59
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    32yr old..... Get out of Dodge.
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    Default Re: Unemployment

    Quote Originally Posted by Henris View Post
    32yr old..... Get out of Dodge.
    I agree.

    Try Dubai or Australia. Plenty of work if you don't mind working hard.

    But the B-Tech might not be highly regarded overseas.
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