Auto vs manual in off road conditions... - Page 4





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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    Quote Originally Posted by clivemd View Post
    One of the biggest killers of Auto boxes is oil Temp and cooking the oil that result in Trans failure most have a oil cooler in the front which is fine for driving when you have air flow over it, but 4x4 you don't get much flow and the Viscus or elect fan pull is not the best as the fans have to pull air through radiator, Condenser and then up front the trans cooler, so there is a restriction of air being sucked through

    i have a 8 row cooler up front and then a 2nd oil cooler under Landy protected by steal plate with its own fan that comes on at 78'C that way have air cooling cooler when 4x4ing
    Nice setup.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Taxi View Post
    I have the opportunity to trade in my 2x4 with diff lock 2016 Ranger for a new model. I have two options, anothe manula box or an auto box. I've never driven a 4x4 auto box vehicle off road. What do the forum members think? Manula or auto?

    Colin
    Colin, I own an FJ Cruiser auto and a JK Rubicon manual. Iím not going to offer any advice on whether the manual or auto is better, but I would suggest that if youíre unsure, then stick with with youíre comfortable with. If not, then Iím sure it wont take you too long to learn something different.
    Ross

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    Quote Originally Posted by RMackay View Post
    Colin, I own an FJ Cruiser auto and a JK Rubicon manual. Iím not going to offer any advice on whether the manual or auto is better, but I would suggest that if youíre unsure, then stick with with youíre comfortable with. If not, then Iím sure it wont take you too long to learn something different.
    I would love to hear your comments between the two. After our Road to Hell trip I love the FJ more and more.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE_NMaIL5IQ

    I enjoyed Ronnie's explanation of manual vs auto

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    It depends. If you use the car as daily driver and when you do off road, it is not extremely challenging terrain, Auto is very comfortable.

    I prefer a manual off roader, with no nannies, not even ABS.

    Reason being, we like to go well off the beaten track when we have the chance to go on holiday. In really difficult conditions especially nasty rock crawling and steep downhills, manual is better.

    So, although my Discovery 1 is in daily use, I still reckon for our setup it is better.

    My last three Platkarre were all Auto and I must admit, it is great for everyday use..
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  6. #66
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    I would love to hear your comments between the two. After our Road to Hell trip I love the FJ more and more.
    Perhaps its better for another thread, but I honestly cant say which is better in terms of manual or auto.

    I bought the FJ new in 2012 and still love it, its done every trail you can find in and around Cape Town (and some others further away), its seen Namibia a couple times, Lesotho, Swaziland etc, and hasnít given me a days trouble.

    The JK on the other hand I bought new in 2015 (I think) and it became more of my daily driver and weekend trail toy with very limited mods done to it. What I did though was fit them both with 2Ē lift and 285/70/17 tyres so if I was to try and compare them off-road they would be more or less the same. I hear what some say about having to rev an auto a bit more over an obstacle etc but this can be overcome with experience and if really need be fit a pedal booster with settings you can change, then again with the manual, Iíve managed to stall it on occasions when trying to crawl over obstacles really slowly (even with the rubi ratios), so in my mind its 6 in one and half a dozen the other.
    Ross

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    I've only ever owned manual cars and it's never been a problem. That said, i think on mountain passes, dunes, etc, an auto is easier, not having to control revs etc. And in the ridiculous stop-start N1 traffic each morning, an auto would definately be easier. Next car I buy (only in about 3 years) I'll go for an auto with low range

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    Quote Originally Posted by KurtG View Post
    Nope, itís because I never got stuck in such a situation where the rocking action would have helped.
    Try harder!
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  9. #69
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    Fluffy have you done something like Baboons in a 4x4 with auto box?
    I havenít done Baboons in anything. But the Jeep Rubicon JKU which is only available in auto is probably about the most popular tool for the job.

    Left foot braking while rock crawling is something a manual just canít do. Infinitely better and smoother low speed jerk and lurch free control in a auto than a manual. Handover of torque from the motor to the ground via a torque converter modulated by the brakes is simply something a manual canít do.
    Cheers

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  10. #70
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    I guess one will have to ask the original poster if he plans to do baboons - that might help the discussion.
    I have no plans of ever doing that so an auto works for me. One really has to discuss these in the framework of what the guy that asked the question originally intends to do with the car - not what some of the toughest meanest offroaders get up to.
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  11. #71

    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    Exactly Stephan.

    The OP starts the thread with no indication of what the vehicle's primary use will be or any other info. He just mentions 'off-road conditions', auto or manual and assumptions are made instantly. No follow up posts by him to add info, but we are now already doing Baboons pass and then some.

    Only fact in this entire thread is that nobody knows what the OP defines as 'off-road conditions' because there are as many definitions as there are members on the forum.

    The OP might need the vehicle to tow his Ventertjie to Kruger once a year and drive a couple of dirt roads there for all we know.
    Last edited by lekhubu943; 2019/05/17 at 09:48 AM.
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  12. #72
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephan van Tonder View Post
    I guess one will have to ask the original poster if he plans to do baboons - that might help the discussion.
    I have no plans of ever doing that so an auto works for me. One really has to discuss these in the framework of what the guy that asked the question originally intends to do with the car - not what some of the toughest meanest offroaders get up to.
    Stephan it might be true that we are beyond the question of the OP. I am for a few reasons very curious to find out in what extreme conditions most people uses auto box equipped 4x4`s.

    I have owned several 4x4 over the years. Have had auto 4x4`s and still owns one. Over many years I have build and rebuild several 4x4`s and have even owned a Unimog.
    My experience with crawling is that ratios plays the biggest role. You can stuck a Mog in low first drop the clutch and it will idle up the worst obstacles without you touching any controls.

    When I build the Yank Ranger I were flipping between fitting an auto or manual. In the end I went for a manual with a 6.69 first gear. Same thing you can idle 90% of the obstacles at a snails pace. Can do the same with the v8 Cruiser.

    Yes you can do left foot braking on an auto which I do. Thing is going up steps like mentioned in the thread you get to situations where you are running against the slip of the torque converter making control more difficult than a high torque 4x4 with very low ratios.

    I love the auto in sand if you are able to keep the gear and manual select the auto box. With my son owning the Ranger now and him not being interested in rock trails he want to go auto box for the dunes.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    Quick question for the posters on this thread with auto boxes? I am just curios please tell us which extreme trails you have done.

    Trails like Baboons. I do believe that Baboons were done by many auto`s.

    Sorry I am just trying to get a picture of on what scale the auto lovers 4x4.

    Please do not get me wrong auto`s make very nice daily drives.
    Oom Grips,

    I have an Auto TJ, that is exclusively used as a trail play thing.
    I am no 4x4 expert but I try and do the more difficult stuff available.

    I have done Baboons in it when it still had open diffs and standard diff ratios.
    There was no issues.

    I have however done a few things since then to get it more suited for playing.
    Sorted the whiskey throttle, after I almost flipped it, by adding an extra spring to the throttle cable.
    It has an extra oil cooler.
    I lowered the diff ratios.

    The only thing I miss about the manual 4x4s is the engine braking on steep descents.
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  14. #74
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    Thanks for this graph.
    My car has a tranny oil temp readout on the dash display. What is interesting that slow hard work doesn't impact on the oil temp. It must be said that I always go tiptronic in any "interesting" scenario and in low range I always go for as low a gear as is sensible. The testing conditions I refer to will be with my Echo Chobe in tow and we have done Kalahari sand and low-range up the Sheba Mountain 4x4 track. The default temp for my box is 175įF (80įC). The only time the box temp goes up is high speed cruising in +40įC ambient, with caravan in tow and going up hill. Then it peaks at 195įF (90įC). The engine coolant temp and the tranny oil temp actually mimics each other, so I assume the the tranny oil temp is exchanged with the engine coolant.
    I've never done extreme stuff like Baboons (and most likely never will), so for my application it is auto all the way. The toughest job I'll ever ask of my tranny is to haul my Echo Chobe up Akkadis pass.Name:  tapatalk_1558091770744.jpeg
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    Last edited by RoelfleRoux; 2019/05/17 at 01:34 PM.

  15. #75
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    Get the bloody Auto!!
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  16. #76
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    Seems like the right kind of oil will make your auto perform better...
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  17. #77
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    Quote Originally Posted by JJ-Namibia View Post
    We have many auto in the dunes and doing the Meob and LŁderitz/Walvis routes with no problems. Do a few heavy sand routes with hard tires in high range and see what happens....
    Well, that's kinda trying to prove a point just to prove a point. Who in his right mind would do heavy sand routes with hard tires, never mind whether it's a manual or automatic gearbox. That's abuse, either way. That's like allowing the clutch to slip rather than using 4L and then claiming in an automatic the clutch would have never burned.
    Know how to use a vehicle, use it correctly and then we can compare.
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  18. #78
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    What am I missing. And auto can be driven in manual mode only without a clutch.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Erwin Schimper View Post
    What am I missing. And auto can be driven in manual mode only without a clutch.
    Depends on the box. Most of the more modern ones allow some measure of manual control.

    They can also be modified to be completely manual, or to allow manual control override. This seems to be all the rage in Aus at the moment, but I don't specifically know of anybody locally who can do this type of work.
    1996 Patrol 4.2SGL with lots of stuff to make it heavier and thus increase traction?

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Auto vs manual in off road conditions...

    Quote Originally Posted by grips View Post
    ...With my son owning the Ranger now and him not being interested in rock trails he want to go auto box for the dunes.
    Before going for an automatic Ford Ranger for sand dunes, be careful. We were in the Dunes south of Swakopmund and a forum member with his Wildtrack struggled a bit, because the autobox didn't stay in gear. Whenever the revs came close to red line it upshifted and he got stuck. Best is maybe to make sure the gearbox can stay in gear. Maybe it's a case of RTFM, maybe the Ranger's autobox can't.
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