Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees. - Page 6





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  1. #101

    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Can't someone race their new Navara against the last 2.5? Aren't their specs the same on paper? I'm not sure about differences in power/torque curves but if the old one runs away, that should also confirm a problem.

  2. #102
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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Ja, moenie hierdie stront koop nie.... https://youtu.be/HfA-_IwJGTo

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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Quote Originally Posted by kadafi View Post
    Sonder om nou 'n fight te soek..wonder ek wie van julle wat so baie te se het besit wel so 'n kar?..so gaan dit met elke model, Die Ford breek, so ook die LR en die Toy's se bakwerk is pap en die ding wil nie in trurat ingaan nie, die Rok is net 2lt en sy timing belt val af...en so kan ons aangaan tot more oggend....geniet jou kar waarvoor jy betaal het..and let it be..
    Jis ek laaik jou!
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    Werk nog aan die res

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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zirk View Post
    Well, then you have more than 100 Nm torque missing if the D4D feels stronger.

    (1)Toyota D4D - 3.0

    Torgue 343 Nm
    Power - 120 Kw
    Claimed fuel consumption - 8.3 l/100 km.
    Emissions - Euro 2
    0-100 - 12 s


    Toyota 2.4 GD6.

    Torque 400 Nm
    Power 110 kW
    Claimed fuel consumption 7.3 l/100km, Combined)
    0-100 km/h - 13.2
    Emissions - Euro 4





    Nissan Navara 2.3D

    Torque 450Nm ( minus +/-100 Nm ) = 350 Nm ?
    Power -140 Kw
    Kurb weight 1774 kg
    0-100 km/h - 10.8 s
    Emissions - Euro 5
    Claimed fuel consumption - Combined 6.4 l/100

    Even with 100Nm less torque the figures on the Navara is impressive compared the 3.0L D4D .


    (Specs from Cars.co.za)

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    Het hierdie post n punt of is ek stadig en ek mis hom heeltemal?

    Ek se ek hou van my bakkie, maar hy voel pap en sy brandstof verbruik is "OKAY" .
    A journey is a person in itself; no two are alike. And all plans, safeguards, policing, and coercion are fruitless. We find that after years of struggle that we do not take a trip; a trip takes us.
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  5. #105
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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    ek verstaan nie die probleem nie

    jy hoef nie die stront te koop nie
    Jy het altyd n mooi manier met jou woorde jong.

    Probleem kom in waneer jy klaar die "Stront" gekoop het sonder die wete dat die bakkie met minder NM kom as wat die verkoper jou voor laat betaal het.

    As ek n hilux wou gehad het kon ek mos n hilux gekoop het of hoe.
    A journey is a person in itself; no two are alike. And all plans, safeguards, policing, and coercion are fruitless. We find that after years of struggle that we do not take a trip; a trip takes us.
    John Steinbeck

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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Die ding is... Die enigste wat regtig 'n sê in die saak het is die ouens wat die kar gekoop het en hom actually ry. Die res is net geraas van die kant af.
    En vir die wat hom wel ry, as die gerugte jou pla vat Nissan self aan, moenie staat maak op die geraas van hulle wat hom nie ry nie.
    Andersins, geniet die voertuig. Ek doen.

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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wessel_JHB View Post
    Jy het altyd n mooi manier met jou woorde jong.

    Probleem kom in waneer jy klaar die "Stront" gekoop het sonder die wete dat die bakkie met minder NM kom as wat die verkoper jou voor laat betaal het.

    As ek n hilux wou gehad het kon ek mos n hilux gekoop het of hoe.
    dis gemik aan Reenen wat nog 'n besluit moet neem

    vir die res van julle wat alklaar gekoop het: wel, dan het ek innige empatie en ek sou op Nissan se stoep gekamp het
    Last edited by jelo; 2019/04/17 at 11:05 AM.

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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Munnika View Post
    Die ding is... Die enigste wat regtig 'n sê in die saak het is die ouens wat die kar gekoop het en hom actually ry. Die res is net geraas van die kant af.
    I don't agree.
    This is a forum, not a Nissan support group.
    Last edited by RoelfleRoux; 2019/04/17 at 01:13 PM.

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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoelfleRoux View Post
    I don't agree.
    This is a forum, not a Nissan support group.
    I agree, lots of people on the forum of late, seem to want to create their own little echo chambers without being willing to hear any input from anyone on the outside. Especially if the input doesn't tie in with their own biases.

    I have a buddy who owns a new Navara, and I personally looked at and test drove one a while back when I wanted to replace my Amarok. So am I not allowed to comment on this thread?

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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Munnika View Post
    Ja, moenie hierdie stront koop nie.... https://youtu.be/HfA-_IwJGTo
    Daai Amarok kan bly wees die Navara het 100NM kort, anders het hy nou rekmerke gehad.
    Mitsubishi Pajero 3.2 D-ID GLX LWB

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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanRoux View Post
    I agree, lots of people on the forum of late, seem to want to create their own little echo chambers without being willing to hear any input from anyone on the outside. Especially if the input doesn't tie in with their own biases.

    I have a buddy who owns a new Navara, and I personally looked at and test drove one a while back when I wanted to replace my Amarok. So am I not allowed to comment on this thread?
    I'm quite happy with your argument Johan, echo, echo, echo. I suppose my point is that I prefer to focus on the facts. We often get worked up over opinions that are offered as facts. For example, that Toyota sell more bakkies than Nissan is a fact (I don't need to explain). The reason for this however could easily just be an opinion. That all Navara D23s ever sold in this country underperforms against published figures from Nissan is an opinion. Show me one example in this thread (or anywhere else for that matter) where this fact was provided, even though it was requested.
    Do I know that my Navara D23 produces 140kw and 450Nm as promised by the manufacturer? No, because I have not tested her on a Dyno yet. Does it mean my Navara D23 cannot produce 140kw and 450Nm just because someone (who does not own one by the looks of) says so? No.
    Are we allowed to offer our opinions on this forum even though I cannot provide a single fact to support my point of view? Of course, that's what makes this forum so great, not true?
    For interest sake, I do plan to test my car on a Dyno and I will most certainly made that information available right here. Report and all.
    Further to this, I sent an email to Nissan this afternoon. Not to some faceless, nameless character, but to Mike Whitfield (MD), Jacques Labotsky and Natasha Naidoo asking for information about this claim. I have received a reply from Jacques already informing me that they are aware of this thread (does that surprise anyone?) and that I have absolutely nothing to be concerned about. I guess the real test will be my Navara in the Dyno.
    In the mean time, if opinions are what floats your boat, gooi mielies.
    My last opinion, I drive a Navara D23 (not my boet, my neighbor or my auntie) and I like my Navara, even though, heaven forgot, it only produces a Toyota like 350Nm!

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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Thanks Munnika, look forward to your feedback.

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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Munnika View Post
    I'm quite happy with your argument Johan, echo, echo, echo. I suppose my point is that I prefer to focus on the facts. We often get worked up over opinions that are offered as facts. For example, that Toyota sell more bakkies than Nissan is a fact (I don't need to explain). The reason for this however could easily just be an opinion. That all Navara D23s ever sold in this country underperforms against published figures from Nissan is an opinion. Show me one example in this thread (or anywhere else for that matter) where this fact was provided, even though it was requested.
    Do I know that my Navara D23 produces 140kw and 450Nm as promised by the manufacturer? No, because I have not tested her on a Dyno yet. Does it mean my Navara D23 cannot produce 140kw and 450Nm just because someone (who does not own one by the looks of) says so? No.
    Are we allowed to offer our opinions on this forum even though I cannot provide a single fact to support my point of view? Of course, that's what makes this forum so great, not true?
    For interest sake, I do plan to test my car on a Dyno and I will most certainly made that information available right here. Report and all.
    Further to this, I sent an email to Nissan this afternoon. Not to some faceless, nameless character, but to Mike Whitfield (MD), Jacques Labotsky and Natasha Naidoo asking for information about this claim. I have received a reply from Jacques already informing me that they are aware of this thread (does that surprise anyone?) and that I have absolutely nothing to be concerned about. I guess the real test will be my Navara in the Dyno.
    In the mean time, if opinions are what floats your boat, gooi mielies.
    My last opinion, I drive a Navara D23 (not my boet, my neighbor or my auntie) and I like my Navara, even though, heaven forgot, it only produces a Toyota like 350Nm!
    Just one note. Your dyno figures will be useless. As a relative, before after measurement they may have some merit, but the your engine is rated at the flywheel, so the only way to verify the output, will be to haul the engine out and put it on an engine dyno.

    Anyone that tells you otherwise is talking rubbish. I would also imagine that the Nissan figures are probably quoted at sea level, so running a dyno test at reef altitudes will not prove too much unless Nissan has characterized that engine at reef altitudes.

    Since they don’t manufacture the Navarro’s locally, they do not carry the can for warrantee issues , so I would be surprised if they have tested the engine outside the vehicle locally , as they really have no need to. Sometimes they will offer to take foreign plants vehicles through their local testing procedures, but this is usually at the discretion of the manufacturing plant.

    I think they are nice wagons and may well consider one when the time comes to replace the amarok

  14. #114
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    Default Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom13 View Post
    Daai Amarok kan bly wees die Navara het 100NM kort, anders het hy nou rekmerke gehad.
    Munnika ek like jou kwaai ! ek is baie tevrede met my bakkie ek ry hom al meer as n jaar en 4 maande met meer as 38000 km op klok en dol gelukkig , sy gat is n bietjie los agter maar dis te verstaande dat hy heeltemal ander veering het daar is mos nie blad vere nie , mens kan dit upgrade maar ek is happy daar mee. Ek sleep elke dag meer as n ton verf en gereedskap en sukkel nie een keer om iets verby te vat nie ek sal nou nie uitlaat op wat se spoed ek al n ander bekende fabrikaat bakkie verby gesteek het en die bestuurder met n “drop jaw” ken my agterna gekyk het .
    Ek het simpatie met die ouens wat kla oor die NM wat hul se kort, ek het nog nie nodig ge had om rede te soek om myne te laat toets nie maar sal dit wel doen waneer ek die kans kry
    Dit is moontlik dat daar ander maps op voertuie gelaai is ek neem aan my bakkie is een van die eerste vloot wat hier geland het en die wat dalk later hier aangekom het is dalk met n ander map gedoen, ek het op n vorige reply gelees dat die Merc wat dieselfde d23 enjin het se krag & NM’s verskil, dalk het hul dalk die laer NM map gebruik vir die later modelle waar oor die ouens nou kla .
    Ek het die naweek so 450 km afgele en my gemidele verbruik was 13,6-15km/L ek was natuurlik glad nie haastig nie die pad tussen ottosdal Dellareyville en verder is glad nie iets om op te ry nie het so tussen 80-100km/uur gery op plekke waar daar mooi teer opervlakte was,en dit was stop ry en versnel heel pad so dan dink ek die verbruik was glad nie sleg nie as ek dit konstand op 100km/h kon hou glo ek sou dit naby 18km/Liter uitwerk
    , terloops as iemand sou vra of dit die bakie se rekenaar was wat dit uitgewerk het antwoord is “Ja” maar moet net se dit was uitgewerk by pomp ook na ek terug gekom het en dit was maar net n bietjie uit gewees gemiddeld 12,9km/L
    Eknhet ook al baie swaar gesleep en het al n gemiddeld van 9,8-10,2km/L gekry met meer as 2 ton as ek baie haastig was met die sleep het ek so 8,5km/L gekry by pomp
    Ek dink nog steeds baie goeie verbruik
    Sterkte met die ander manne se bakkies ek glo Nissan sal dit kan uit sorteer anders maak n plan en laat dit dan maar doen mens dien in elk geval upgrades later en veranderinge
    Last edited by OLi4 Chris; 2019/04/17 at 08:25 PM.

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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Quote Originally Posted by stephenplumb View Post
    Just one note. Your dyno figures will be useless. As a relative, before after measurement they may have some merit, but the your engine is rated at the flywheel, so the only way to verify the output, will be to haul the engine out and put it on an engine dyno.

    Anyone that tells you otherwise is talking rubbish. I would also imagine that the Nissan figures are probably quoted at sea level, so running a dyno test at reef altitudes will not prove too much unless Nissan has characterized that engine at reef altitudes.

    Since they don’t manufacture the Navarro’s locally, they do not carry the can for warrantee issues , so I would be surprised if they have tested the engine outside the vehicle locally , as they really have no need to. Sometimes they will offer to take foreign plants vehicles through their local testing procedures, but this is usually at the discretion of the manufacturing plant.

    I think they are nice wagons and may well consider one when the time comes to replace the amarok
    Thanks Stephenplumb. What you say makes a lot of sense. But what I'm confused about is that it was stated (by Reenen I think) that Toyota tests on par with what the manufacturer claims and the Navara does not. So if your point stands then surely it would apply to Toyota too? Apparently 40 Navaras were tested (if I remember correctly) and they ALL failed. Instead all the Toyotas "passed". So now, were the Toyotas engines pulled and tested on the flywheel? And on what basis then did the Navaras fail if only tested on the tires? What about showing us those dyno reports? Again guys, we should focus on the facts. Oh, I forgot to mention, I do average 11.2 l/km. Fact.
    I made an appointment with SAC in Milnerton on Tuesday next week for the test, which will of course be done with the engine securely in its usual place. It will at least be done on sea level. I'm a little doubtfull if the test will actually happen because they want my car for the whole day which I cannot really accommodate right now. I agreed that it will happen if they can do the test first in the queue. Let's see what happens.

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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Quote Originally Posted by stephenplumb View Post
    Just one note. Your dyno figures will be useless. As a relative, before after measurement they may have some merit, but the your engine is rated at the flywheel, so the only way to verify the output, will be to haul the engine out and put it on an engine dyno.

    Anyone that tells you otherwise is talking rubbish. I would also imagine that the Nissan figures are probably quoted at sea level, so running a dyno test at reef altitudes will not prove too much unless Nissan has characterized that engine at reef altitudes.

    Since they don’t manufacture the Navarro’s locally, they do not carry the can for warrantee issues , so I would be surprised if they have tested the engine outside the vehicle locally , as they really have no need to. Sometimes they will offer to take foreign plants vehicles through their local testing procedures, but this is usually at the discretion of the manufacturing plant.

    I think they are nice wagons and may well consider one when the time comes to replace the amarok
    Stephen I fully agree. Said the same thing about the 3.2 Ranger. Impossible to take a manufacturer on when it comes to dyno figures. If the push comes they will take an engine from a vehicle put it in their engine dyno. If needed tweek the ECU program or just load a map and make the power they quote.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Munnika View Post
    Thanks Stephenplumb. What you say makes a lot of sense. But what I'm confused about is that it was stated (by Reenen I think) that Toyota tests on par with what the manufacturer claims and the Navara does not. So if your point stands then surely it would apply to Toyota too? Apparently 40 Navaras were tested (if I remember correctly) and they ALL failed. Instead all the Toyotas "passed". So now, were the Toyotas engines pulled and tested on the flywheel? And on what basis then did the Navaras fail if only tested on the tires? What about showing us those dyno reports? Again guys, we should focus on the facts. Oh, I forgot to mention, I do average 11.2 l/km. Fact.
    I made an appointment with SAC in Milnerton on Tuesday next week for the test, which will of course be done with the engine securely in its usual place. It will at least be done on sea level. I'm a little doubtfull if the test will actually happen because they want my car for the whole day which I cannot really accommodate right now. I agreed that it will happen if they can do the test first in the queue. Let's see what happens.
    Any place doing a dyno would know how to compensate for altitude and the difference between power at the flywheel or at the wheels. If they can't do that, they probably wouldn't be in business.

    As to the rest of the comments, Reenen is probably one of the biggest supporters/owners of Nissans on this forum. So I don't think he would willingly start or even spread a rumour about a product that he generally supports, without being very sure of what is going on. He is also mechanically, in my opinion, one of the sharper people on the forum, so in general, I would believe what he says without questioning his bona fides. He is also more than capable of defending himself so I'll leave that there.

    What seems to be the issue here, is that some of the new Navaras appear to be delivering less power - or more specifically torque - than they should. There was a thread about the Ford 3.2s a few years back for a very similar issue. I can't remember what the exact outcome was, but a lot of people were not happy at the time. That doesn't suddenly mean that the Ranger or the Navara are bad and nobody should buy one. It also doesn't mean you're an idiot for buying one. I'm sure most people have very good justifications for buying, whatever they end up buying. And thankfully, those justifications differ enough that we don't all end up driving the same things, because that would just be boring.

    So, the point is really this, if you have a Navara and you're happy with it, great. Based on my limited experience, it's a very nice bakkie. But that doesn't mean that there are not a number of other Navara drivers out there, who are not happy with theirs. IMO, seemingly with a very valid reason for their unhappiness.

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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanRoux View Post
    Any place doing a dyno would know how to compensate for altitude and the difference between power at the flywheel or at the wheels. If they can't do that, they probably wouldn't be in business.

    As to the rest of the comments, Reenen is probably one of the biggest supporters/owners of Nissans on this forum. So I don't think he would willingly start or even spread a rumour about a product that he generally supports, without being very sure of what is going on. He is also mechanically, in my opinion, one of the sharper people on the forum, so in general, I would believe what he says without questioning his bona fides. He is also more than capable of defending himself so I'll leave that there.

    What seems to be the issue here, is that some of the new Navaras appear to be delivering less power - or more specifically torque - than they should. There was a thread about the Ford 3.2s a few years back for a very similar issue. I can't remember what the exact outcome was, but a lot of people were not happy at the time. That doesn't suddenly mean that the Ranger or the Navara are bad and nobody should buy one. It also doesn't mean you're an idiot for buying one. I'm sure most people have very good justifications for buying, whatever they end up buying. And thankfully, those justifications differ enough that we don't all end up driving the same things, because that would just be boring.

    So, the point is really this, if you have a Navara and you're happy with it, great. Based on my limited experience, it's a very nice bakkie. But that doesn't mean that there are not a number of other Navara drivers out there, who are not happy with theirs. IMO, seemingly with a very valid reason for their unhappiness.
    If my phone keypad wasn't so small, and if I was more eloquent, then I would have written this exact same post.

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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Some good responses. It's obviously not my place to question anyone's opinion, or even the motives for expressing them, with or without the substance to back it up.
    But personally I take the claims rather seriously because I actually invested a lot of money to own one, of course you don't have to if you don't want to. I will continue to try and get my hands on some facts. Someone already said to me I'm crazy to spend money on confirming something that never bothered me before reading this post. Hell, there's another truth for you.
    Have a lekker long weekend everybody, drive safely (and behind a Navara just in case you need a little help to get your whatever out the sand)

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    Default Re: Navara D23 2.3 nie wat hy beloof om te wees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Munnika View Post
    Some good responses. It's obviously not my place to question anyone's opinion, or even the motives for expressing them, with or without the substance to back it up.
    But personally I take the claims rather seriously because I actually invested a lot of money to own one, of course you don't have to if you don't want to. I will continue to try and get my hands on some facts. Someone already said to me I'm crazy to spend money on confirming something that never bothered me before reading this post. Hell, there's another truth for you.
    Have a lekker long weekend everybody, drive safely (and behind a Navara just in case you need a little help to get your whatever out the sand)
    And therein lies the rub, if you're happy with the vehicle, do you really need to test it? Probably not. But humans being what we are, if I was an owner, I would certainly want mine tested.. Because if you don't, you'll always wonder.

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