Ethiopian Airlines Crash - Page 19





Page 19 of 19 FirstFirst ... 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
Results 361 to 379 of 379
  1. #361
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Wellington
    Age
    77
    Posts
    236
    Thanked: 41

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    Those interested in flying or do fly please have a look at this video. Enjoy.

    Boeing 737NG Terrain Escape manoeuvre!! - Cockpit ... - YouTube


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qsFI9l0bJk
    - Vertaal hierdie bladsy

    ▶ 21:57

    12 Apr. 2019 - Opgelaai deur Mentour Pilot
    How pilots avoid mountains? that's easy. they use a plane ;-) .... Very good video, Mentour pilot, I have a ...
    Last edited by Bekker Snr; 2019/05/14 at 11:25 PM.

  2. #362
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Swakopmund
    Age
    49
    Posts
    2,842
    Thanked: 447

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/api/a...0q8uOU3-XjSMQ/

    Interesting that even in the simulator they weren’t able to save the day, because the forces on the trim actuator where that high, that it simply wouldn’t move anymore.
    2012 FJ Cruiser
    1983 FJ60 Landcruiser

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to HugoNotte For This Useful Post:


  4. #363
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Wartburg
    Age
    59
    Posts
    1,195
    Thanked: 904

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by HugoNotte View Post
    https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/api/a...0q8uOU3-XjSMQ/

    Interesting that even in the simulator they weren’t able to save the day, because the forces on the trim actuator where that high, that it simply wouldn’t move anymore.
    What is the talk amongst you pilots? Happy with the rectification(s) made by Boeing?


  5. #364
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Swakopmund
    Age
    49
    Posts
    2,842
    Thanked: 447

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeml View Post
    What is the talk amongst you pilots? Happy with the rectification(s) made by Boeing?

    I am not rated nor do I have experience on Boeing aircraft. Can't say.
    Friends of mine who do or have flown Boeing had been of the opinion that at least the Ethiopian crash could have been avoided if the crew had handled the situation better. Essentially the general opinion was that Boeing had caused a bit of a bummer with how they went about the implementation of MCAS, but essentially the Ethiopian crew could have done better and prevented the accident. But in light of the fact that experienced pilots, fully briefed and prepared, weren't able to produce a better outcome in the simulator than the Ethiopian crew having to deal with a real life scenario, that opinion might have shifted.
    2012 FJ Cruiser
    1983 FJ60 Landcruiser

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to HugoNotte For This Useful Post:


  7. #365
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Benoni
    Age
    43
    Posts
    4,182
    Thanked: 486

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    Im puzzled as to why, when against procedure (which was the right thing to do in hindsight), they re-engaged the stab trim switches, they proceeded to trim using the trim controls but stopped doing so after just a few seconds just to let mcas take over again. Weird decision... Had they continued to trim a few more seconds and then disengaged the stab trims again they would have been in control and hopefully also noticed and corrected their airspeed situation.

    Anyway, I’m just being an armchair critic, which is not fair.
    2007 Touareg 3.0 V6 TDI (Facelift, Air, Rear Diff Lock, Rear Mounted Spare)
    2008 Audi A4 B8 2.0 TDI (Multitronic)
    2009 KTM 990 Adventure (Weekend Fun)
    2012 Imagine Trailvan 4-Sleeper

    * consumption needs to be seen in the context that the vehicle is towing an Imagine Trailvan 30% of the time


  8. #366
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Cape Town
    Age
    51
    Posts
    1,451
    Thanked: 671

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    https://www.fin24.com/Companies/Indu...ngers-20190529



    An Ethiopian Airlines pilot told senior managers at the carrier months before one of its Boeing 737 Max jets crashed that more training and better communication to crew members was needed to avert a repeat of a similar disaster involving a Lion Air flight.
    According to emails and documents reviewed by Bloomberg News, the pilot in December urged his superiors to bolster training on a 737 Max flight-control feature so crews would be better prepared for what the Lion Air pilots encountered in October before plunging into the Java Sea, killing all aboard.
    ''It will be a crash for sure,'' if pilots struggling with a malfunction of Boeing’s flight-control system on the 737 Max also encountered, for example, a cockpit warning that they were flying too close to the ground, the pilot, Bernd Kai von Hoesslin, wrote in a December 13 email.


    On March 10, an Ethiopian Airlines plane operated by two other pilots crashed minutes after takeoff from Addis Ababa, killing 157.
    While the crash played out differently from how von Hoesslin described, he accurately foresaw the chaos and peril of multiple cockpit warnings that pilots dealt with during the March crash. Von Hoesslin’s communications add another layer to the competing narratives that have shaped the public’s view of the 737 Max crisis - and of who’s most responsible for what went wrong.
    In 418 pages of previously unreported correspondence and documents he sent to airline managers, von Hoesslin cited a number of concerns he said needed to be addressed relating to maintenance, pilot rest and operational procedures. His concerns bring fresh attention to the crash of the Ethiopian Airlines jet, which prompted a worldwide grounding of Boeing’s top-selling passenger jet and the company’s most significant crisis in decades.
    Von Hoesslin declined to comment for this story. The documents seen by Bloomberg came from another person who asked not to be identified.

    Ethiopian Airlines spokesperson Biniam Demssie said by phone: ''I can’t comment on anything right now.'' The airline has said its pilots have completed all the training that Boeing and the FAA recommended.It’s unclear whether von Hoesslin’s suggestions for training would have made a difference, said Jeffrey Guzzetti, the former director of the US Federal Aviation Administration’s Accident Investigation Division, noting that crash investigators, regulators and airlines are still evaluating the extent of additional training needed.
    ''I bet there were numerous other similar discussions within other 737 Max airlines following the Lion Air accident, and I bet considerations were made in some fashion with most of those airlines,'' he said.
    Von Hoesslin’s bosses at Ethiopian Airlines, as well as the nation’s Transport Minister, have cast suspicion on a malfunction of the 737 Max feature known as the Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System.


    The Chicago-based planemaker, while careful not to be seen blaming a customer, has noted the role pilot actions also played in the Ethiopian and Lion Air disasters.
    In both, pilots unsuccessfully battled automatic nose-down movements commanded by MCAS. The movements were triggered by erroneous readings from one of the Max’s two weather vane-like “angle of attack” sensors on either side of the jet’s nose.
    In the December email, von Hoesslin reminded managers that flight crews could be overwhelmed by multiple warnings and cockpit alerts that can sound during an errant activation of MCAS. Problems with the system led to the 737 Max’s global grounding in March and shook confidence in Boeing and its regulator, the US Federal Aviation Administration.


    Von Hoesslin, who identified himself in the documents as a certified 737 instructor, submitted his resignation to Ethiopian Airlines in April. The documents reviewed by Bloomberg, including the December email urging additional training, were attached to von Hoesslin’s resignation letter.
    In his email to several bosses, including those responsible for flight operations and safety, von Hoesslin called attention to the airline’s flight simulator program. The simulators were based on Boeing’s earlier 737 ''Next Generation,'' or NG, family of jets, and the program didn’t replicate MCAS, he said.
    Although regulators and airlines around the world did not require that pilots train on a Max simulator after the Lion Air crash, Hoesslin took issue with the airline’s approach.
    “The sim program does not simulate the MCAS, thus using this older NG has serious drawbacks in our training when operating the Max,” von Hoesslin wrote in an email. “I suggest alternate training methods.”
    In a separate email in November, von Hoesslin asked airline managers to provide more detail about MCAS to “those Max pilots who are not fully or even aware of how the Max MCAS” system functions. The request came after a flight operations manager at the airline circulated Boeing’s November 6 service bulletin that described, without naming MCAS, how erroneous sensor data could cause the jet to pitch toward the ground automatically, and how pilots should respond.
    In response to von Hoesslin, the manager circulated more details about MCAS that the manager said came from Boeing and that explained the automated flight-control feature in greater detail.
    Earlier this month, Ethiopian Airlines said it is “among the very few airlines in the world” that operates a full-flight simulator for the Boeing 737 Max 8 but that it wasn’t configured to simulate MCAS.


    On May 17, two days after a US House hearing in which Missouri Republican Sam Graves cited pilot error as a factor in the fatal crash, Ethiopian Airlines said in a statement that any effort “to divert public attention from the flight control system problem of the airplane is a futile exercise because it is not based on factually correct analysis.”
    While US aviation regulators and Boeing issued warnings in November that included instructions on how pilots should respond to MCAS’s activation, there was no call for simulator training. Ethiopian Transport Minister Dagmawit Moges has said the pilots followed proper procedures issued after the Lion Air crash.
    In an April 4 statement, Ethiopian Airlines said the preliminary report into the March 10 crash ''clearly showed'' that the pilots followed correct procedure.
    However, that report shows the pilots left the thrust too high and turned the motor driving MCAS back on after initially switching it off.
    In his resignation letter, von Hoesslin said he felt the airline hadn’t fully responded to his complaints.
    “Some of these concerns were safety-related and well within the duty of the airline to adequately address,” he wrote.
    Last edited by Patrick L; 2019/05/31 at 12:54 AM.
    "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence."

    - Charles Bukowski

  9. #367
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Cape Town
    Age
    51
    Posts
    1,451
    Thanked: 671

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48461110

    Boeing has admitted it "fell short" when it failed to implement a safety alert system on the 737 Max.
    The aircraft was grounded globally in March after two crashes within months.
    Boeing boss Dennis Muilenburg said a mistake had been made in the software for a cockpit warning light called an "angle-of-attack (AOA) disagree alert".
    He said: "We clearly fell short and the implementation of this angle-of-attack disagree alert was a mistake, right, we did not implement it properly."
    In an interview with Norah O'Donnell of CBS News he said Boeing was now fixing the problem.
    The alert could have notified pilots and maintenance crews that there was a problem early in the flight.
    One flight safety expert said if there had been an AOA disagree alert on board the Ethiopian airlines flight it "would have been the very first clue" for the pilots that something was wrong.
    Chris Brady, a pilot and author of The Boeing 737 Technical Guide said: "I'm fairly confident that the Ethiopian Airlines flight probably would not have crashed if they had had the AOA disagree alert" on the aircraft.
    "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence."

    - Charles Bukowski

  10. #368
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Cape Town
    Age
    51
    Posts
    1,451
    Thanked: 671

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    More woes for Boeing...

    this time discovering some potentially suspect leading-edge slats hardware for some 737 Max's and NG's.

    I am guessing Boeing is already very busy designing the successor to the 737 -faith in this aircraft will be difficult to re-engender.


    One would hope other manufacturers/regulators worldwide are re-checking their procedures and protocol.


    This is all pointing to some really serious problems in the design/control/certification processes that Boeing/FAA employ.





    https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/arti...7%20Max%20woes

    WASHINGTON, June 2 (Reuters) - The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration on Sunday disclosed a new problem involving Boeing Co's grounded 737 MAX, saying that more than 300 of that troubled plane and an older model 737 may contain improperly manufactured parts and that the agency will require these parts to be quickly replaced.

    The FAA said up to 148 leading edge slat tracks manufactured by a Boeing sub-tier supplier are affected and cover 179 MAX and 133 NG aircraft worldwide. Slats are movable panels that extend along the front of the wing during takeoffs and landings to provide additional lift. The tracks guide the slats and are built into the wing.
    "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence."

    - Charles Bukowski

  11. #369
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Cape Town
    Age
    50
    Posts
    351
    Thanked: 299

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    NY Times article....... makes for scary reading, cowboys at best and killers most likely. Somebody has to get charged ......

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/01/b...max-crash.html
    HOWIE-WP,
    RoadCar: 2008 VW Golf5 .:R32
    OffRoad Car: 2006 VW Touareg 4.2 v8
    "Settle for nothing less than the object of your desire"-Bjork

  12. #370
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Ezulwini Eswatini
    Posts
    1,417
    Thanked: 1325

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    I sure there will be a movie one day about this whole debacle.

    This whole saga has made me a bit stressed about flying in any new boeing this past weekend me and Swambo flew on a new A350 named Peter Both.

    On the return flight, plane reversed out of parking about to taxi on to runway, stood still for a few minutes and then the announcement from captain that they need to park again due to a technical issue.

    We were on our way again in 15min, after 3 guys with yellow vests came aboard and got off

    did not inspire confidence,

    2011 VW Touareg V.8 TDI
    2006 VW Touareg 3.0 TDi air suspension aka Pumba ( sold)
    2003 Pajero IO 2.0 aka Bosvark

  13. #371
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Swakopmund
    Age
    49
    Posts
    2,842
    Thanked: 447

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Karol View Post
    On the return flight, plane reversed out of parking about to taxi on to runway, stood still for a few minutes and then the announcement from captain that they need to park again due to a technical issue.

    We were on our way again in 15min, after 3 guys with yellow vests came aboard and got off

    did not inspire confidence,
    Modern airliners are full of complex technology. When systems are powered up, e.g. during engine start, sometimes electronic glitches happen.
    Usually engines are being started during push back (the reversing out of the parking bay). Depending on what aircraft you were in and the company's standard operating procedures, the pilots may not reset circuit breakers while on the ground. For example if during engine start some valve of the pneumatic system didn't open / close properly, often it is enough to simply pull the circuit breaker and close it again, effectively cycling the valve or simply resetting the control circuit. Or an engine's FADEC (electronic engine control) might have a hick up during start, a reset can sort that out. No big deal at all.
    While on ground, pilots might not be allowed to do this and maintenance has to do that procedure.

    Or in case of a malfunction of some system, for which there is sufficient redundancy, maintenance has to perform a quick procedure, e.g. securing a circuit breaker and sign out the tech log. If somethings fails while on ground, the crew would consult a so called Minimum Equipment List (MEL), in order to figure out whether or not the aircraft can still dispatch.

    None of these things are reason for concern. If the crew of an IATA member airline is happy to fly the aircraft, it is safe to do so. With the amount of parameter monitoring, often in real time and done by the aircraft- and or engine manufacturer, it would be very difficult to get away with not doing things to the book.
    Last edited by HugoNotte; 2019/06/05 at 02:25 PM.
    2012 FJ Cruiser
    1983 FJ60 Landcruiser

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to HugoNotte For This Useful Post:


  15. #372
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Wartburg
    Age
    59
    Posts
    1,195
    Thanked: 904

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    Now that they are sorting the hardware with it's controlling software, I hope that pilot licensing and and ability does also not come into play:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdFiZYGSVMk


  16. #373
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Swakopmund
    Age
    49
    Posts
    2,842
    Thanked: 447

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    Iceland Air fires 737 Max pilots.

    https://simpleflying.com/icelandair-...ax-pilots/amp/
    2012 FJ Cruiser
    1983 FJ60 Landcruiser

  17. #374
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Centurion
    Posts
    0
    Thanked: 12

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    ..scary thoughts...


  18. The Following User Says Thank You to Urk For This Useful Post:


  19. #375
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Swakopmund
    Age
    49
    Posts
    2,842
    Thanked: 447

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Urk View Post
    ..scary thoughts...

    Always good to listen to a real expert with solid knowledge and the ability to explain how aircraft things are working. Unbelievable how much background research this guy has done in order to present his findings. NASA & FAA should hire him right away.

    2012 FJ Cruiser
    1983 FJ60 Landcruiser

  20. #376
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Cape Town
    Age
    51
    Posts
    1,451
    Thanked: 671

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    If US pilots are now insisting on simulator training for the 737Max (v 1.1), I can only see operators/pilots worldwide following suit and insisting the same.

    With Airbus having just unveiled the A321XLR, and securing near 200 firm orders in a few days, I forsee a major difficulty for Boeing to ever regain it's share of the market in this sector with the now infamous 737 Max.

    By the time this aircraft is now re-certified -at massive cost to Boeing and operators- and with 737MAX orders surely being cancelled en masse right now -it may be a lost cause for Boeing to try to re-spark the trust in the 737MAX, and they may be better off designing a new and updated aircraft from scratch to cater for this sector into the future.








    https://www.fin24.com/Companies/Trav...max-20190619-2

    New York, June 19, 2019 (AFP) - US pilots called Wednesday for enhanced pilot training on the Boeing 737 MAX before the aircraft is returned to service after being grounded worldwide following two deadly crashes.
    The pilots - including Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger III, who famously landed a damaged plane on the Hudson River in New York in 2009 - pushed back against the aviation giant's assurances that pilots will only need to review the 737 MAX modifications in a computer program.


    Daniel Carey, president of the Allied Pilots Association, told a congressional panel he was encouraged by changes Boeing made to a flight system seen as a factor in both the Lion Air and Ethiopian Airlines crashes that killed 346 people.

    But Carey, a captain with American Airlines, sharply criticised Boeing's development process of the MAX plane and said he was troubled that the training being discussed by the manufacturer would be insufficient.
    "We remained concerned about whether the new training protocol, materials and method of instruction suggested by Boeing are adequate to ensure the pilots across the globe flying the MAX fleet can do so in absolute complete safety," Carey told a House committee.
    Sully demanded simulator training for MAX pilots, saying the computer-based program used previously was not sufficient.
    Pilots must be subjected to what can go wrong during a simulation and "need to develop a muscle memory of the reactions so that it'll be immediately accessible to them" in an actual crisis, Sullenberger said.
    "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence."

    - Charles Bukowski

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to Patrick L For This Useful Post:


  22. #377
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Swakopmund
    Age
    49
    Posts
    2,842
    Thanked: 447

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    Quite true what you are saying Patrick L.

    It might also dawn on various current B737 operators that the 737 has reached it's end of development as such. Cost savings due to 737 family commonality might be a thing of the past. With a new type on the horizon, a strong argument for operators to stick with Boeing is out of the window.
    In a way it is a good thing, since the B737 must be the last commercial airliner on the market that has not yet embraced modern cockpit philosophies and up to this day puts more workload on pilots than what is necessary, purely for the reason of type commonality with a 1960s design.
    2012 FJ Cruiser
    1983 FJ60 Landcruiser

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to HugoNotte For This Useful Post:


  24. #378
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Location
    Johannesburg
    Posts
    586
    Thanked: 194

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    Boeing has received a boost for its grounded 737 Max jet after British Airways-owner IAG signed a letter of intent to order 200 of the planes.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/business-48682123
    Discovery 1 1996 V8i (Sold, owned for 20 years); Freelander 2 2013 SD4 SE; Discovery 4 2014 SDV6 SE; Bushlapa Boskriek


  25. The Following User Says Thank You to Jola For This Useful Post:


  26. #379
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Cape Town
    Age
    51
    Posts
    1,451
    Thanked: 671

    Default Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Jola View Post
    yes-I had seen that...but...

    By Theo Leggett, BBC business correspondent

    This is not a firm order, and strictly speaking, IAG could change its mind if it wanted to - but it will still come as a huge boost for Boeing, at a show where it has been struggling to dispel the clouds hanging over its business.

    The 737 Max may still be grounded - but it remains a flagship product for the American giant. It's worth remembering it is the fastest selling product in Boeing's history. It still has more than four thousand of them on order, far more than the rest of its range put together.
    What IAG seems to have offered is a vote of confidence that the company will be able to make the aircraft unquestionably safe, and be able to demonstrate to regulators that it has done so, allowing it to return to market before long.
    The economic reality is that airlines need the 737 Max - because of its high efficiency and low operating costs. Airbus simply cannot supply the whole market with its rival A320neo.
    The deal, if it goes ahead, would be valued at $24bn (£19bn) at list prices. But the "substantial discount" negotiated by IAG's savvy chief executive Willie Walsh is likely to be very substantial indeed.
    Meanwhile the announcement may help to alleviate the mood at Boeing's chalet, where it would be understandable if something of a siege mentality had developed over the past few days.

    The planes will be used by IAG's airlines including British Airways, Vueling and Level, the airline group said in a statement. The letter of intent was signed at the Paris Air Show.
    IAG chief executive Willie Walsh said: "We have every confidence in Boeing and expect that the aircraft will make a successful return to service in the coming months having received approval from the regulators".
    IAG's "first priority is the safety of passengers and crew," a spokeswoman said.
    Boeing shares rose more than 2.8% after the announcement.
    The firm said it was "truly honoured and humbled by the leadership at International Airlines Group for placing their trust and confidence in the 737 Max".
    Criticisms of the crew of the Ethiopian Airline plane that crashed in March were "seriously misinformed", the airline's chief executive Tewolde GebreMariam said after a US congressman claimed pilot error was a factor in the disaster.
    This week a US Federal Aviation Administration official indicated that Boeing 737 Max aircraft might could be grounded until the end of the year - longer than many had been expecting
    Having said that -I do wish Boeing very well, and look forward to their new-generation designs -there has been a very healthy rivalry in aviation with the 2 largest producers -Airbus and Boeing - having to constantly keep up with each other over the last decades -and this can only bode well for any industry -as long as regulators are independent and impartial.
    Last edited by Patrick L; 2019/06/20 at 06:06 PM.
    "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence."

    - Charles Bukowski

Page 19 of 19 FirstFirst ... 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •