biggest loss in Indian corporate history





Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 56
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Here
    Posts
    1,501
    Thanked: 651

    Default biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    Just pondering how long before the for sale sign comes out

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/02/08/i...ver/index.html

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Pilanesberg
    Age
    34
    Posts
    207
    Thanked: 81

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Untitled.jpg 
Views:	1048 
Size:	218.7 KB 
ID:	519046
    Well with prices like this, Land Rover alone has gone into a totally different market, which I don't think is as big as the market it was originally in. In this day and age, especially in China, people want the cheapest they can get - real, fake makes no nevermind, just the cheapest....... JLR is not anywhere near cheap.
    Last edited by Stringb3an; 2019/02/08 at 07:19 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Cape Town Southern Suburbs
    Posts
    3,108
    Thanked: 1134

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    I think it's more a perfect storm of events than any underlying issues or market fundamentals.

    A few unforseen market events have conspired to make conditions very tough for JLR. The Chinese trade war with the US, diesel gate, brexit.

    I'm still surprised how many of the latest model Land Rover/Range Rovers I see on Sa roads, sales don't seem to be too bad here despite our doom and gloom and they seem to be the de facto worldwide celebrity vehicle brand of choice.

    "The Chinese auto market has been one of the hardest hit by the country's ongoing trade war with the United States, with car sales in the country falling last year for the first time in two decades."

    "Closer to home, Jaguar Land Rover has felt the collapse in diesel vehicle sales in Europe in the wake of Volkswagen's (VLKAF) emissions scandal. Huge uncertainty about the United Kingdom's exit from the European Union, which accounts for more than 50% of UK car exports, has added to the pain by depressing sales and investment."

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Skylark For This Useful Post:


  5. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    cape Town - 0825509200 / 0624206806
    Age
    60
    Posts
    2,338
    Thanked: 448

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    China’s got the Land Wing, which is as close as dammit

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Nairobi
    Age
    45
    Posts
    314
    Thanked: 20

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    Outside off-road ability, many German makers offering better valued luxury cars

  7. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Windhoek
    Age
    61
    Posts
    410
    Thanked: 110

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    On a more lighthearted note:

    https://youtu.be/XggmU0ks7kk

    (Discovery at the ‘Ring’...)
    Last edited by Sadi; 2019/02/09 at 06:22 AM.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sadi For This Useful Post:


  9. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fourways Gardens
    Age
    40
    Posts
    3,620
    Thanked: 685

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    Quote Originally Posted by Sadi View Post
    On a more lighthearted note:

    https://youtu.be/XggmU0ks7kk

    (Discovery at the ‘Ring’...)
    Geepers that thing shunts! 200kmph on the straights is impressive.

    Defender Puma Raw Limited Edition
    Series III 88"
    Scout Nomad


    Chop your own firewood and it will warm you twice

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Fourways
    Age
    37
    Posts
    994
    Thanked: 434

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    I agree with one of the above comments about it being the perfect storm for JLR. They have moved into a different market, one without loyalists/ enthusiasts rather one with money. A case of overcharging those 10 customers for entrance and drinks rather than having a full bar with cheap drinks, good vibes & returning customers. We all know the former never lasts which is hopefully not the case here.

    Secondly, JLR not taking ownership regarding reliability issues and ignoring cranky loyal customers has definitely made a large contribution to this perfect storm. At the end of the day, word of mouth marketing is stronger than any other form - this can make or break any company.
    Last edited by DETOUR-GP; 2019/02/10 at 01:11 PM.
    Rob,

    D4 SDV6 HSE ARB Bullbar, Compos, BFG 265/65R18s, Big Country drawers, National Luna 52L, Dometic 50L, Spare Wheel Carrier, Roof Rack, Hardshell RTT, FR 50" LED Bar, Lift Rods, Mantec Snorkel, C-TEK Dual batt system, 270 Ostrichwing, Maxtrax, TXG Rock Sliders, IIDtool, shelf

  11. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to DETOUR-GP For This Useful Post:


  12. #9
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Ruimsig
    Age
    56
    Posts
    4,807
    Thanked: 11838

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    Quote Originally Posted by DETOUR-GP View Post
    They have moved into a different market, one without loyalists/ enthusiasts rather one with money.
    100% Tenderpreneuers, Footballers, Gangsters and A Listers
    Estee = S T = Sean Towlson

    Hummer H3 V8

    W.A.P Objectivist

  13. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Estee For This Useful Post:


  14. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Waterfall
    Age
    39
    Posts
    464
    Thanked: 616

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    One thing I have noticed in the area I live (Upmarket suburbs) is, when the 120 Prado was out all the yummy mummies were driving them, they then moved over to the Disco 3/4 or RR Sport, now? Hardly see a Disco 5, still quite a few RR Sport but the majority seem to have gone back to either Prado's or the bigger 200 Cruiser.
    Any minority that advocates for gun control is either wilfully ignorant, or has never opened a history book.

    The problem with collective punishment - is that sooner or later you're part of the collective.

  15. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to BluePaj For This Useful Post:


  16. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Windhoek
    Age
    61
    Posts
    410
    Thanked: 110

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    Such a pity though - the new Evoque seems to be very good. JLR has so many vehicles in its own stable vying for sales amongst each other. With the one being a few cm longer or shorter than its sibling competitor. Almost too heavy at the top - with little lower down at the cheaper end of the scale. With some German competitors offering more for the money - eg. the new Touareg. In recent times China was tergeted by many manufacturers as the growth engine for their products. So when the Chinese market falters you know you’re in for a rough ride. With the worst scenario we may perhaps not even see the new Defender in ZA - should JLR perhaps decide to call it quits locally. On the other hand - could Defender perhaps help rescue them? Or should they just open a manufacturing plant in ZA?

  17. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Goba
    Age
    61
    Posts
    372
    Thanked: 154

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryFrank View Post
    China’s got the Land Wing, which is as close as dammit
    It is even closer than dammit...!!
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    1997 Discovery 1 300 TD i ...Old Faithful (Sold) Rusty
    2006 Discovery 3 2.7 TDV 6...not sure yet ? (Scrapped) Could not last
    2011 Toyota Fortuner D4D 4x4 Man

  18. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Fourways
    Age
    37
    Posts
    994
    Thanked: 434

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    Quote Originally Posted by BluePaj View Post
    One thing I have noticed in the area I live (Upmarket suburbs) is, when the 120 Prado was out all the yummy mummies were driving them, they then moved over to the Disco 3/4 or RR Sport, now? Hardly see a Disco 5, still quite a few RR Sport but the majority seem to have gone back to either Prado's or the bigger 200 Cruiser.
    That's actually very very true! there was a trend for rugged luxury, the eco/city adventurer. Prado still holds this up...

    A pity JLR, I find myself wondering what my replacement will be... right now its Prado, LC200 or even worst case scenario Jeep Wrangler.... LR isnt on this list at the moment.
    Rob,

    D4 SDV6 HSE ARB Bullbar, Compos, BFG 265/65R18s, Big Country drawers, National Luna 52L, Dometic 50L, Spare Wheel Carrier, Roof Rack, Hardshell RTT, FR 50" LED Bar, Lift Rods, Mantec Snorkel, C-TEK Dual batt system, 270 Ostrichwing, Maxtrax, TXG Rock Sliders, IIDtool, shelf

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to DETOUR-GP For This Useful Post:


  20. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Durban
    Age
    65
    Posts
    286
    Thanked: 333

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    I must say this caught me out as, based on the Disco fever in SA, that LR were doing well and it was a bargain. But then look at Mital; bargain for who?

    More seriously, I guess the LR segment has been eroded by the Q7/Toureg/Porsche etc as well as Toyota/Lexus.

  21. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Windhoek
    Age
    61
    Posts
    410
    Thanked: 110

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    True - as with AMG and GTi - ZA apparently was a country with some of the highest sales of the Discovery per capita.

  22. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
    Location
    Cape Town
    Posts
    20
    Thanked: 9

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    Sadly it looks like LR losing focus on its core appeal and pandering to the Gucchi/ Louis Vuitton brigade is costing it. I have a 2009 D3 which I love and had many happy kms exploring Southern Africa. I haven't done any "gung-ho" stuff but it has its fair share of bush rash, mud, sand and water; sometimes pulling a camper. But I don't think I will upgrade to a D4 [maybe, but the 19" rims are a concern] and definitely not a D5. The Range Rover derivatives are real mall crawlers - maybe they should change the name to "Mall Rover" - [although if I had lots of money I would love a Range Rover Sport]. I suggest LR re-examines its core focus and what made it successful in the first place.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkpWcRYR4zE.
    Last edited by kreeves; 2019/02/11 at 12:00 PM.

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to kreeves For This Useful Post:


  24. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Location
    Blackburn
    Age
    69
    Posts
    2
    Thanked: 10

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    As an Englishman, it pains me to see the downfall of JLR - almost as much as it pained me to see this British company - the people who gave the world the affordable, quality 4x4 and the E-type Jag - sold to foreigners. This isn't xenophobia - if the business isn't owned domestically, then the owners have no loyalty to the country. It was also a sad day that Rolls Royce and Bentley and Mini were sold to the Germans.
    Membership of the EU - the EEC or Common Market as was - has not helped Britain as a manufacturing base. I realise that outside of the UK, the situation known as Brexit means nothing, that only UK citizens care what happens and that hundreds of millions of people around the world have never even heard of Brexit of the EU and that these days, the UK is just a small, insignificant island off the North-West coast of continental Europe.
    I voted for Brexit as the EU is a political, social and financial straightjacket which exists purely to serve German industry and French agriculture. Our industries have been shut down or sold off to suit the EU - London may be a financial hub but any manufacturing in the UK tends to be done by companies owned by foreigners - Rolls Royce, Bentley, Mini, JLR, Toyota, Nissan, Peugeot, Ford etc etc.
    British banks abandoned industry in the 70s when we joined the EEC in favour of currency speculation, property and the stock market. Without access to business loans, manufacturers cannot function - ours were got rid of, which is what the Brussels mafia wanted all along. The UK has lost it's native manufacturing base, it's fishing industry, huge portions of it's agricultural capacity and all we got in return were millions of immigrants - 8,000,000, either from the EU or accessing the UK via the EU since 2000. This into a country with a population density of over 1000 people per square mile on average. By comparison, the USA has 80 per square mile on average.
    We have lost so much and globalisation, of which the EU is just one part, is to blame. We have little in the way of native manufacturing now, but we do have many, many illiterate, unemployable, single, non-white, male, muslim immigrants.
    So Brexit isn't to blame for the problems at JLR - the decline of diesel as the fuel of choice is much more to blame. Fuel is so expensive here - around 108 South African Rand for an Imperial gallon of diesel - that anyone who needed or wanted a vehicle with an engine bigger than 1.6 litres, has, for years, been forced to buy a diesel vehicle so as to enjoy good mpg. My 2.5 litre diesel Isuzu Denver does 33mpg even on stop-start journeys in town. My 2.5 litre petrol Jaguar used to do 17mpg. All "large" vehicles are in decline in terms of sales here - the government are trying to get rid of ALL vehicles with internal combustion engines by 2040 and there is a big push to get us all onto electrics. But as the cheapest all-electric is over £24000 ( Nissan Leaf ) they aren't having much luck.
    So don't believe the media when they say Brexit is to blame - that's just the default position of the media, politicians, the political left, big business and the various "luvvies" like Bob Geldof, all of whom are in thrall to the EU, as they confuse their love of continental European culture with the reality of life in the EUSSR.

  25. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Paul Atherton For This Useful Post:


  26. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    La Mercy
    Age
    62
    Posts
    56
    Thanked: 14

    Unhappy Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Atherton View Post
    As an Englishman, it pains me to see the downfall of JLR - almost as much as it pained me to see this British company - the people who gave the world the affordable, quality 4x4 and the E-type Jag - sold to foreigners. This isn't xenophobia - if the business isn't owned domestically, then the owners have no loyalty to the country. It was also a sad day that Rolls Royce and Bentley and Mini were sold to the Germans.
    Membership of the EU - the EEC or Common Market as was - has not helped Britain as a manufacturing base. I realise that outside of the UK, the situation known as Brexit means nothing, that only UK citizens care what happens and that hundreds of millions of people around the world have never even heard of Brexit of the EU and that these days, the UK is just a small, insignificant island off the North-West coast of continental Europe.
    I voted for Brexit as the EU is a political, social and financial straightjacket which exists purely to serve German industry and French agriculture. Our industries have been shut down or sold off to suit the EU - London may be a financial hub but any manufacturing in the UK tends to be done by companies owned by foreigners - Rolls Royce, Bentley, Mini, JLR, Toyota, Nissan, Peugeot, Ford etc etc.
    British banks abandoned industry in the 70s when we joined the EEC in favour of currency speculation, property and the stock market. Without access to business loans, manufacturers cannot function - ours were got rid of, which is what the Brussels mafia wanted all along. The UK has lost it's native manufacturing base, it's fishing industry, huge portions of it's agricultural capacity and all we got in return were millions of immigrants - 8,000,000, either from the EU or accessing the UK via the EU since 2000. This into a country with a population density of over 1000 people per square mile on average. By comparison, the USA has 80 per square mile on average.
    We have lost so much and globalisation, of which the EU is just one part, is to blame. We have little in the way of native manufacturing now, but we do have many, many illiterate, unemployable, single, non-white, male, muslim immigrants.
    So Brexit isn't to blame for the problems at JLR - the decline of diesel as the fuel of choice is much more to blame. Fuel is so expensive here - around 108 South African Rand for an Imperial gallon of diesel - that anyone who needed or wanted a vehicle with an engine bigger than 1.6 litres, has, for years, been forced to buy a diesel vehicle so as to enjoy good mpg. My 2.5 litre diesel Isuzu Denver does 33mpg even on stop-start journeys in town. My 2.5 litre petrol Jaguar used to do 17mpg. All "large" vehicles are in decline in terms of sales here - the government are trying to get rid of ALL vehicles with internal combustion engines by 2040 and there is a big push to get us all onto electrics. But as the cheapest all-electric is over £24000 ( Nissan Leaf ) they aren't having much luck.
    So don't believe the media when they say Brexit is to blame - that's just the default position of the media, politicians, the political left, big business and the various "luvvies" like Bob Geldof, all of whom are in thrall to the EU, as they confuse their love of continental European culture with the reality of life in the EUSSR.
    .Yes the EU is like FIFA ,not a nation but yet this group can dictate to any sovereign nation rendering its constitution useless. I am hoping that Brexit happens as legislated. Germany has already indicated that it will suffer because 80 percent of its vehicles are sold in UK. South Africa also comes under pressure by EU regulations. one eg. Our Champagne must be branded as sparkling wine. I Always disliked this lot.A successful Brexit may see the end of the EU who are a few people/dictators ,collecting a salary from different nations yet that citizen cannot vote them out of office. The press ,strangely BBC, seems to be most disruptive and biased against Brexit. Yet It is the EU that seems to have tied Teresa May to the post is is currently at. Their actions are clear that they are willing to do anything to prevent Brexit. The big question is why. They have other loyal members .

  27. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jeev For This Useful Post:


  28. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Ramsey
    Posts
    163
    Thanked: 87

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    At last! Somebody with the cajones to point the finger right where it belongs. And so eloquently too.
    A succession of political pygmies have brought the UK to its present sorry impasse and with narry a thought to ask the citizens for their approval. As soon as they did that they got their come uppance and long overdue.
    And even now the spivs of the capital markets are pressing down with their gambling and speculation.
    So come on RSA. There is a market for your goods, tariff free, ready for you to sell into.
    Albert

    Progress might have been alright once, but it has gone on too long.

  29. The Following User Says Thank You to Albert Ross For This Useful Post:


  30. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Johannesburg
    Age
    51
    Posts
    785
    Thanked: 230

    Default Re: biggest loss in Indian corporate history

    On Land Rover
    It was bought for USD 2.3 billion in 2008. Due to the various political (Brexit, DT's trade war with China) and new world changes (VW's diesel problems) which are affecting all Automakers. Tata had to right down the value of JLR by USD 4 billion to USD 7.8 billion. In ten years JLR has more than doubled in value. They have lost 30% in value relatively overnight due to the various problems mentioned but they are still 239% more valuable than when bought by Tata. . They are also still profitable accounting for almost 60% of Tata's revenue in the last 12 months. I doubt they will be selling soon.

    In terms of England. The EU had not much to do with the demise of "Great"Britain. If anything the Americans making Britain pay for WW2 had a much bigger impact on the British economy. The last lend-lease payment was made in December 2006. (To think we were worried about Zuma's nuclear project) America used this money to get Japan and Germany up and running as well as ensuring the good life for themselves.

    Also Labour policies and the sell off of British technology to help fund these payments effectively destroyed English productivity and ability to compete. The EU did not destroy Rover et al. This was done by the British government in the 1950 - 1970's. The same fgoes for the British Aeronautical Industry. Europe did not have much of either of these industries in the 1940's and 50's.

    While BMW used Land Rover it has done better later. If anything it is clear Tata has rescued and breathed new life into JLR. BMW has definitely taken Rolls Royce and Mini to new heights and VW while losing some of Bentley's core values have kept others - they still make the fastest Lorries around and are driven by the brash rich youngsters like Woolf Barnato of the 1920's.

    Too many people blame the EU for the problems. England staying on the Pound made them less competitive in the world markets meaning only specialised industries(i.e. Formula 1) could afford to rely on British Engineering expertise. I know in our industry we eventually gave up trying to sell the British equipment it was too expensive with no technical advantage. It is sad as England is an Engineering powerhouse with a huge skill set. I think Brexit may finally kill it off entirely. Note the EU is not run by the Germans. The French have far too much say in it and they do everything they can to minimise the German economy. The Germans have grown despite this. England should do the same. The EU allows the Europeans to meet the Americans successfully in the marketplace. The British leaving it now as America realises the folly of sending all their know-how to China and is busy on-shoring as quickly as it can is a real missed opportunity.
    Last edited by DiscoMatt; 2019/02/12 at 01:53 PM.

    2012 Disco 4 SDV6 HSE - Amazingly competent
    2014 Crosspolo 1.2TSI - General runabout
    2011 KTM 990 Adventure - The classic can do bike
    Sadly sold: 2004 Disco 2 V8 - My beach cottage no more
    Finally retired: 2006 Volvo XC70 - Swambo's platkar that could

  31. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to DiscoMatt For This Useful Post:


Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •