Tesla vs other brands





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  1. #1
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    Default Tesla vs other brands

    all,

    Just to make you aware, this is a long post.

    In recent past I have been reading up on Tesla company (cars).
    It is astonishing what a small group of people (with some money) and a vision have achieved in relatively short period of time.

    In recent news it has been reported that
    In the last quarter of 2018, Tesla was a best selling luxury brand in US.
    They are making big waves in Asia.
    Recently they supplied Avis rental company with Model 3 and Model S vehicles.

    I decided to join Tesla forum to read up on owners experience with the brand.

    Generally feedback is more positive then negative. There are few failed 12V batteries, Drive units, some trim issues, some paint complaints but everything was resolved under warranty.

    Giving that Tesla is a relatively a new company with no long history of producing cars, there are really no serious issues with the product or its structure.
    Not more then you would get with any other brand.

    This got me thinking about rest of the car industry.
    Its just unreal that big boys like Mecedes, BMW, VW, Jaguar and list goes on, did not foresee that electric cars might be something to work on and or at least try and build a car that can do what currently Tesla does.
    Nowdays there are maybe cars from mentioned companies that are as good or better, but not few years back when Model S was launched.

    I know BMW has "i" cars
    Mecedes had few electric things, but range was never good on those.
    Audi has its etron range, but that is all very new.
    I am not including Hybrids as they are useless without ICE.


    With huge financial backing, engineering departments, R/D departments they could have done so much more.

    Why did they continue building and researching Diesel and Petrol cars. Especially Diesels when they knew that Europe will outlaw them.
    Sales of diesel vehicles in the US are not massive to begin with.
    Why continue?

    I was never for electric cars, as range is an issue, charging time is an issue and that silence with no glorious sound coming from an engine or exhaust was always my issue. One day if I do buy an electronic car it will still be an issue.

    Once more companies jump on board and start researching and developing new batteries and charging systems this will improve drastically.
    Then very soon we will be able to drive 500 - 600 km with a single charge.

    What Tesla did alone in that department ia remarkable.
    They built Super charging stations across the US, where I understand its free to charge your Tesla.
    Few years back, Elon understood that battery supply will become a problem if electric cars are the future, so he started to build a $5 billion dollar lithium ion battery GigaFactory.
    It should supply 30GWh of batteries per year.


    Think where Diesel engines where 30 years ago.
    They were slow, loud, smelly.
    Where they are now.

    Maybe in 30 years it will be funny to us all that back in 2019 cars could only do 200km a day on a single charge.

    Lastly, does anybody remember Jule, South African electric car that did not see the light of day due to lack of funds.
    That could have been something, (South African Tesla), if they only had financial backing.

    There are few at South African motor museum, and I must say they look pretty good in metal/fibreglass/plastic.
    Its sad that they could not make it work.

    Lets see what the future holds petrol, diesel and electric cars.
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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    This is a Nokia/Blackberry/Android/Apple situation. The companies that don't adapt and change will soon fall behind the new innovative ones who adapt to changing times and needs...

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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    Tesla is about to make uber obsolete with its Robotaxi.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GnH...ature=youtu.be

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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    Everything does not always work, like all manufacturers:

    https://www.iol.co.za/motoring/indus...death-22350409
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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingswood View Post
    ...Why did they continue building and researching Diesel and Petrol cars. Especially Diesels when they knew that Europe will outlaw them.
    Sales of diesel vehicles in the US are not massive to begin with.
    Why continue?
    ...
    Because diesel is the most efficient and economical fuel with widespread availability and support... just because there have been some successes with electric vehicles, doesn't mean the other fuel sources are suddenly redundant.

    If you take a balanced view, you will see there are pros and cons to electric vehicles... it's not enough just to tout the breakthroughs in battery powered vehicles.

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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    The proposed EU ban on diesel vehicles is fairly new, and will only be implemented in the decades coming, with some only stopping sales of diesels in 2040. The development life cycle for current model engines would have started before the ban was proposed.

    Several manufacturers have recently indicated that they will no longer develop new diesel engines. Development in petrol engines continue, although they will also eventually be phased out.

    Tesla (cars) as a business unit is not currently profitable, and will start taking strain if they cannot turn the corner soon.

    I think very few electric vehicles are currently making money, but are rather used as R&D for future models

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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingswood View Post
    Why did they continue building and researching Diesel and Petrol cars. Especially Diesels when they knew that Europe will outlaw them.
    Sales of diesel vehicles in the US are not massive to begin with.
    Cars, maybe, but that is not the only use of diesel engines.

    I can't at this stage see a Scania or Freightliner with an electric motor
    Imagine an Australian road train with an electric motor?

    Large diesel engines won't be replaced for a long time, IMHO.

    Stand-by generators? I don't think so.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity" - Martin Luther king Jr

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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eTouareg View Post
    Cars, maybe, but that is not the only use of diesel engines.

    I can't at this stage see a Scania or Freightliner with an electric motor
    Imagine an Australian road train with an electric motor?

    Large diesel engines won't be replaced for a long time, IMHO.

    Stand-by generators? I don't think so.
    Yes I agree, I was referring to cars mainly.
    '03 Discovery II GS TD5

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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    The other very interesting point is that Tesla spends 0 dollars on advertising its product.

    They have out sold merc C in America a few months ago with that budget.

    Not only is it putting ICE cars out of the picture but sales and marketing consultants as well

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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    Before starting to comment let me say that I have huge respect for Elon Musk and what he has achieved no matter what the eventual outcome may be.

    ESKOM already struggles to cope with our power demand in a very depressed economy - how will it cope with 1000's of electrical vehicles needing charge daily?
    Where are the charging stations?
    How long does it take to re-charge?
    When in remote areas .... then what?
    Maybe these cars do have their place but I think it will be limited to city run-arounds and urban taxi services.

    An electric off road 4x4 ? Mmmmm, me thinks not.

    On the other hand I have driven an Isuzu Prius hybrid and it got me all the way home from Richtersveld to Pinetown KZN - so I guess everything is possible, yes?

    Will it be practical?
    In the cities and for short trips I think Yes.

    For what we get up to - NO!

    But then I guess the likes of us are getting toward Dodo status anyway, so maybe not that relevant anymore.
    Answering the call of the wild is just so much beter than answering the telephone.
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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    Quote Originally Posted by Karol View Post
    The other very interesting point is that Tesla spends 0 dollars on advertising its product.

    They have out sold merc C in America a few months ago with that budget.

    Not only is it putting ICE cars out of the picture but sales and marketing consultants as well
    What is your source for the Tesla and Merc C sales in the USA?

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    Quote Originally Posted by HeinrichC View Post
    What is your source for the Tesla and Merc C sales in the USA?
    google has a lot here the first link I go when I searched tesla 3 sales vs merc c class

    this is for July 2018

    https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/06...tion-us-sales/

    Small & Midsize Luxury Car Sales (July 2018, USA)


    [COLOR=#F5F6F7 !important]
    [COLOR=#F5F6F7 !important]Tesla Model 3[/COLOR]
    13,500




    [COLOR=#F5F6F7 !important]BMW 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 Series[/COLOR]
    9,502




    [COLOR=#F5F6F7 !important]Audi A3 + A4 + A5 + A6[/COLOR]
    7,982




    [COLOR=#F5F6F7 !important]Mercedes C/CLA/CLS/E-Class[/COLOR]
    7,517




    [COLOR=#F5F6F7 !important]Lexus ES + GS + IS + RC[/COLOR]
    7,348




    [COLOR=#F5F6F7 !important]Infiniti Q50 + Q60 + Q70[/COLOR]
    3,431




    [COLOR=#F5F6F7 !important]Volvo 60 + 90[/COLOR]
    2,250




    [COLOR=#F5F6F7 !important]Acura RLX + TLX[/COLOR]
    2,194




    [COLOR=#F5F6F7 !important]Lincoln Continental + MKZ[/COLOR]
    2,153




    [COLOR=#F5F6F7 !important]Alfa Romeo Giulia[/COLOR]
    858




    [COLOR=#F5F6F7 !important]Genesis G80[/COLOR]
    498




    [COLOR=#F5F6F7 !important]Jaguar XE + XF[/COLOR]
    497







    [/COLOR]
    Chart: CleanTechnica Source: CleanTechnica & Good Car Bad Car Created with Datawrapper
    Last edited by Karol; 2019/05/08 at 12:35 PM.

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  14. #13
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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    I europe they outselling all german brand mid size combined

    https://www.topgear.com/car-news/ele...c-class-and-a4

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  15. #14
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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    I came across this on Google:

    QUOTE:
    Hydrogen fuel cells could provide a challenge to battery cars


    Hydrogen fuel cells make use of platinum electrodes that can turn hydrogen and oxygen into water – releasing electricity in the process.

    This means that a car can have a single fuel source – hydrogen – and only needs to add air to it to run. Exhaust fumes are water vapour!

    The efficiency of these fuel cells means that less electricity is lost during the process than with batteries.

    It also means cars typically have a slightly larger range before they need refuelling.

    The biggest hindrances though are the infrastructure for hydrogen that is a bit more expensive than for battery car charging stations – and obviously safety concerns surrounding pressurised hydrogen in cars.

    But this is again countered by much faster filling time, compared to charging times on batteries. Not to mention that batteries have a limited lifetime…

    UNQUOTE

    Just another angle to consider.
    Answering the call of the wild is just so much beter than answering the telephone.
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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter1949 View Post
    Before starting to comment let me say that I have huge respect for Elon Musk and what he has achieved no matter what the eventual outcome may be.

    ESKOM already struggles to cope with our power demand in a very depressed economy - how will it cope with 1000's of electrical vehicles needing charge daily?
    Where are the charging stations?
    How long does it take to re-charge?
    When in remote areas .... then what?
    Maybe these cars do have their place but I think it will be limited to city run-arounds and urban taxi services.

    An electric off road 4x4 ? Mmmmm, me thinks not.

    On the other hand I have driven an Isuzu Prius hybrid and it got me all the way home from Richtersveld to Pinetown KZN - so I guess everything is possible, yes?

    Will it be practical?
    In the cities and for short trips I think Yes.

    For what we get up to - NO!

    But then I guess the likes of us are getting toward Dodo status anyway, so maybe not that relevant anymore.
    Electric 4x4 offroad. For sure, an absolute winner. Instant torque from 0 RPM, perfect power/torque control. Ultimate electronic 4x4 drivetrain (electric motor per wheel with electronic control). Already military offroad vehicles have adopted this.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGFr2TgLAGQ

    How cool is that.?
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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    Quote Originally Posted by 4eTouareg View Post
    Everything does not always work, like all manufacturers:

    https://www.iol.co.za/motoring/indus...death-22350409
    ..And then it's autopilot sometimes works really well indeed!!

    9 very lucky-to-be-alive people!


    https://www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/18...la-car-dorset/



    17th February Two Tesla cars’ automatic emergency brakes prevented families being crushed by falling tree

    By Ellie Maslin @dorsetechoellie Reporter
    (5)








    21 comments
    A ‘MIRACLE’ twist of fate saved a family’s life when their car was hit by a huge falling tree as Storm Dennis raged through Dorset.
    Driver Laurence Sanderson said he, his wife and three children, and the occupants of a second car coming in the opposite direction, would have ‘undoubtedly’ been killed by a falling 400-year-old oak tree - but in an extraordinary coincidence, both vehicles were self-driving Tesla Model X cars, which have automatic emergency brakes.
    The safety feature brought both cars to a sudden halt, therefore preventing them from being crushed by the tree. Instead, the tree crashed down on both cars’ bonnets.







    Mr Sanderson described how the feature kicked in just seconds before the tree came crashing down during the incident on Saturday evening, which happened on the A31 near Vines Farm Shop east of the Roundhouse roundabout at Sturminster Marshall.
    The A31 was among the routes blocked by falling trees on Saturday as the storm hit Dorset.
    Mr Sanderson said: “My wife’s a bit battered and bruised but apart from that we’re completely unscathed - it’s a miracle.
    “We were driving along the A31 and I saw the tree coming down in the blink of an eye. The car slammed the brakes on and the trunk landed on our bonnet.
    “Another second and we would undoubtedly be dead.”
    Mr Sanderson said the Tesla car - the brainchild of Elon Musk - saved his life “100 per cent”.
    He added: “Literally another second and we would’ve been toast. It was huge - the biggest tree I’ve ever seen.

    “The other car had four people in it and they were all ok. The odds of both cars being Teslas is extraordinary.”
    Mr Sanderson, a financial consultant from Brentwood in Essex, is visiting Dorset for a half-term break with wife Anna, and children Max, aged 12, Isabella, nine, and Rex, three.
    He added: “I’d like to thank the lovely couple at Vines Farm, Olga and Tony, who took us all into their house, fed and watered us and played cards with the kids.
    “They showed unbelievable kindness as did Gary, the landowner of the site where the tree stood - who was absolutely mortified - and has lent us his car.
    “I’d also like to thank the emergency services - police, fire brigade, ambulance and Highways England - they were so professional and caring - as well as a host of people who helped us out of the car and warned us that the electricity cables were live.”
    He added: “Both cars are totally written off but the main thing is we’re all safe. Elon Musk has done us proud.”
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  19. #17
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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    The biggest issue for current makers is that it completely changes their entire business model. All the revenue from overpriced spares and service labour is out the window. Image the billions of BORROWED dollars tied up in their current factories. How do you actually access sufficient funds to dismantle your current infrastructure AND reinvent your full supply chain.

    I am currently in europe and a significant portion of the taxis seem te be Teslas.

    The dichotomy we have to deal with is the clash between first and third world. The first world is beyond ready for electrification. The third world might never be. Visualise 20 years into the future and the whole off Arica could look like Cuba. OR there is an opportunity for industrialisation in developing environments to build more Kwids and Datsun go equivalents.
    Always take the slow road.

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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    It’s all good and well that the first world is ready for electrification, but that hasn’t answered the real question as to whether the electric car is the solution to the problem.

    I love the concept of electric cars from a tech viewpoint. Less moving parts, less to go wrong, instant torque, etc etc. and self driving is also something I can’t wait for.

    but as a solutions to environmental issues, electric cars are just a distraction. What is the lifecycle of the lithium batteries that eventually need to be replaced? Where is the electricity coming from to recharge the batteries? It’s all good to push electric cars in Europe, but at the same time they are moving away from nucluer power, and will for the foreseeable future still rely heavily on fossil fuels to power the cars. They are just outsourcing the emissions....

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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick L View Post
    ..And then it's autopilot sometimes works really well indeed!!
    Just for the record. this has nothing to do with auto pilot. It is autonomous braking, fitted to many cars on the road today. My Volvo XC60 had it as does my current Tiguan. Nothing new but does work well mostly.
    We can't change the wind but we can set our sails

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    Default Re: Tesla vs other brands

    I am a big fan of ELon Musk and Tesla in general, so I am keen to see how this will play out in the long run, however with that being said we should not lose sight of the fact that Tesla has much tighter control over supply chain and parts than any other car maker, which means one would be even more locked into dealing with "dealerships" than one is now. There is a you-tuber that buys and rebuilds scrapped Tesla's and all thos scrapped card have their VIN number blocked, which means the following:

    - No software updates (pretty important in a car with so much electronics and advanced features - think smart phone instead of traditional car.)
    - No parts will be supplied and one cannot pop into Goldwagen or Midas for parts, agents only.
    - No use of the Tesla charging stations allowed, Tesla also uses a proprietary charging plug, so you would need an adaptor to use any other charging stations.

    Here are some videos for further reference:

    Rich Rebuilds: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV...8KJADuZT2ct4SA

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okLgtYgnd7A

    Charging stations:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMBdpXGwVlY

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