Earth leakage issue - Page 4




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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Earth leakage issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Naami View Post
    i have seen this on one of my repairs

    check on which neutral bar (before EL or after) the wiring to the dishwasher is connected.
    There is a non EL neutral bar but nothing connected to it.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Earth leakage issue

    Did some googling...mention in post #45 (this thread) of V-O-V wiring in genny. Never heard of it...please read the two links.

    http://www.ee.co.za/article/safe-use...-supplies.html

    ...and a forum discussion on genny connection

    https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum...g-gennie-to-DB

    From post #10

    I learnt something new

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  4. #63
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    Default Re: Earth leakage issue

    Quote Originally Posted by mygoggie View Post
    SANS 10142-1 is very specific in paragraph 7.12.2.7 that a 230 V generator with a V-O-V earth connection (the centre tap on the winding which is earthed), shall not be connected to a fixed electrical installation. Such a generator may only be used as a free-standing unit to provide power to specific appliances.

    I cannot see if your generator is a V-O-V, so best you let us know if it is one or not.
    Thanks a stack for the update on the SANS rule. I got caught out recently when I was involved in the 1st V-0-V inverter which happens to be a pure sine wave. Only when I got a spark on the N did I know somewhere there is a problem. All the inverters I worked on before were V-0 connected.

    As much as we do get bad sparkies it is the same with any trade. The problem with electrics is it can kill in an instant.

    I would however agree with previous guys that a main switch with over current is needed. They not much more expensive than an isolator compared to the genny and a life.

    We also know some sparkies get someone else to issue the COC without seeing the workmanship.

    Then recently I advised someone where the sparky wanted steel wall boxes replaced for plastic. Also wanted to move wall plugs as they were too close(150mm) from the floor and a lot more other things which could perhaps be a case of generating more work.

    Thanks for those contributing to update on certain SANS rules.

    Marius may be you can find someone on the forum close to you that would be able to assist. I hope so.

  5. #64
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    Default Re: Earth leakage issue

    Earth leakage wires swapped (now correct)

    Eskom just switched us off, so I started the genny.

    No more earth leakage tripping.

    So its critical that earth leakage switches are not wired in reverse.

  6. #65
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    Default Re: Earth leakage issue

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post

    So its critical that earth leakage switches are not wired in reverse.
    If you understand how the three coils in the EL works you will know why it makes a difference. Glad you are sorted!

  7. #66
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    Default Re: Earth leakage issue

    Quote Originally Posted by mygoggie View Post
    If you understand how the three coils in the EL works you will know why it makes a difference. Glad you are sorted!
    I know a little about a lot, but I know a lot about very little.

  8. #67
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    Default Re: Earth leakage issue

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    Earth leakage wires swapped (now correct)

    Eskom just switched us off, so I started the genny.

    No more earth leakage tripping.

    So its critical that earth leakage switches are not wired in reverse.
    Marius...before doing anymore wiring and blaming some one else...ask first. Glad you sorted and now the wife doesn't have to injure her hands washing dishes
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  9. #68
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    Default Re: Earth leakage issue

    Quote Originally Posted by hunter26 View Post
    Marius...before doing anymore wiring and blaming some one else...ask first. Glad you sorted and now the wife doesn't have to injure her hands washing dishes
    Im quite capable of basic wiring. Having done the boss's lapa start to finish with DB and all is well.

    When you deal with old installations done by others, then issues crop up. Part of life.
    Last edited by MariusFourie; 2018/12/08 at 02:31 PM.

  10. #69
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    Default Re: Earth leakage issue

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    Ons m quite capable of basic wiring. Having do e the boss's lapa start to finish with DB and all is well.

    When you deal with old installations done by others, then issues crop up. Part of life.
    That is the fun part of working out what the other person did. I hope you have had a COC done for the lapa for insurance purposes.
    Last edited by hunter26; 2018/12/08 at 02:31 PM.
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    snorkel soon
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  11. #70
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    Default Re: Earth leakage issue

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    As mentioned in the first post. It is connected via change over switch.

    Farm has three phases

    1-phase - house
    2-phase - workshop
    3-phase - office

    All three phases share common neutral from transformer onsite
    All routes share a common ground

    If power is out, the house phase with it's neutral is switched via changeover switch.

    Genny polarity is correct
    Genny is earthed with the rest

    Everything works perfectly apart from the dishwasher that trips the earth leakage, but only when the genny is powering it.

    This is my bushmechanic work Not the best in the world, I admit, but it does the job we need.



    This looks like a carefully planned, good looking setup. Shows pride and a sense of protecting your assets!
    Last edited by FrancoisJS; 2018/12/10 at 06:35 PM.

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  13. #71
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    Default Re: Earth leakage issue

    Quote Originally Posted by petermoffat View Post
    Sure, but literally every small generator connected to a home is V-0-V wound, so SANS is not being followed up, and CoCs are being issued for these..Marius can confirm by measuring voltage at the generator between L and E and N and E, it will either be 110V for each, or I've seen a few people say they measure ~170 odd between L and E and 50V between N and E. I suspect this has something to do with the problem, imbalanced voltage across the live and neutral result in imbalanced current flow, so EL trips? I've seen guys connect the generator neutral to earth locally at the genny creating TN-C or TN-C-S earthed system, rather than V-0V, resulting in 220V between L and E (and N), and thus sorting the problem, but I'm not an earthing expert, and I have a sneaky suspicion this could result in live housings on appliances that are not double insulated.Is the generator earth bonded to the building earth?
    For the untrained eye electrical installations looks simple and straight forward. They miss the part of they theory and technical studies that goes with. Also what is required by law and regulations. Even qualified electricians without a wiremans licence get installations horribly wrong as they have no insight into SANS 10142
    For many years now I refrain from doing any domestic installation or the issue of COC`s there for.

    As said in your post one first needs to determine which earth system the supplier uses before connecting a genset to your local switch board. Having an earth connection wrong or neglected can be fatal.

    People does not realize the consequences should someone get hurt by installations not abide by law.
    Very few also does not know that all businesses, farms and domestics have to be within the rules of the health and safety act.

    I know of a case where a farm worker were killed by a homemade pressure vessel. It ended with the owner on trail for manslaughter.
    Last edited by grips; 2018/12/12 at 09:06 AM.
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  15. #72
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    Default Re: Earth leakage issue

    Post 62 in the links one can see how to deal with V-0-V equipment. It also indicates that on some genny it is easy to remove the zero that goes to earth.
    How common would V-0-V be on inverters?

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