Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes - Page 4




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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Mackay View Post
    Having read all these posts it doesn't quite sound like Plug n Play.
    Here's my UPS offering that is really Plug n Play.
    This is a low voltage UPS that will keep your broadband internet access (fibre/ADSL) running for the whole day.
    There's no pure or modified sine wave inverter involved!
    Presently if you have a fibre or ADSL internet connection this will die when the power fails.
    Yes, you can install an inverter UPS to power the routers but these devices are very inefficient by comparison and the backup time is way less.
    If interested I need to know which router & Wi-Fi you are using..
    Fine if you only want internet access I suppose, null and void if you have to power laptops and printers too. Or a TV

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Skylark View Post
    It's less than a single medium capacity 18650 cell?

    Edit, they are probably both incorrect because I checked now and the Wh does match the mAh, an 1850mAh battery is tiny. If that is the case then it's not great value.
    Very common technique in these type of devices.. Several 18650 cells at low voltage ( eg 4 x 2800mAH @ 3.7V?) transformed by internal DC-DC converter to lower current higher voltage, in this case 12V @1859mAH. The capacity in Watt Hours remains the same.
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  3. #63
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    Default Re: Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes

    Nice analogy! Many thanks.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes

    Do these UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes have low battery protection build in? Will they cut out at around 12v or will they completely drain a battery?
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  5. #65
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    Default Re: Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by DC Polokwane View Post
    Do these UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes have low battery protection build in? Will they cut out at around 12v or will they completely drain a battery?
    Yes they do. It's essential that a lead acid battery isn't discharged lower than 10V (citation needed!)since it will permanently damage the battery.
    If you look on the specs of the battery you will see the trade off of no. of charge/discharge cycles vs low voltage cutout value.

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  7. #66
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    Default Re: Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Morne - Skip View Post
    Fine if you only want internet access I suppose, null and void if you have to power laptops and printers too. Or a TV
    One thing I have learned in surviving power outages is that you can either install a monster UPS/generator or you can look at better efficiencies.
    I see more opportunity in the latter: e.g. instead of using a desktop PC powered by an inverter rather use a laptop running on it's own battery.
    Also don't use mains voltage devices if there is a low voltage (DC) option..

  8. #67
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    Default Re: Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Mackay View Post
    Yes they do. It's essential that a lead acid battery isn't discharged lower than 10V (citation needed!)since it will permanently damage the battery.
    If you look on the specs of the battery you will see the trade off of no. of charge/discharge cycles vs low voltage cutout value.
    Going down to 10v will kill a battery quickly! 12v is about 50%, anything lower and you're severely shortening the battery life and dramatically increasing the charge time. (Lead-acid deep cycle batteries)

    Is there a preset cut off voltage or is it user adjustable?
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  9. #68
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    Default Re: Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Very common technique in these type of devices.. Several 18650 cells at low voltage ( eg 4 x 2800mAH @ 3.7V?) transformed by internal DC-DC converter to lower current higher voltage, in this case 12V @1859mAH. The capacity in Watt Hours remains the same.
    Ok, I'm used to Li-ion batteries being rated at their base unboosted voltage, still the battery is tiny, can only be 2 x 18650 cells at 22Wh.

  10. #69
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    Default Re: Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Mackay View Post
    One thing I have learned in surviving power outages is that you can either install a monster UPS/generator or you can look at better efficiencies.
    I see more opportunity in the latter: e.g. instead of using a desktop PC powered by an inverter rather use a laptop running on it's own battery.
    Also don't use mains voltage devices if there is a low voltage (DC) option..
    When converting a home to renewable energy, it is usually far cheaper to reduce your energy consumption than meet your energy consumption with renewable energy.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
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    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

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  12. #70
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    Default Re: Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Skylark View Post
    Ok, I'm used to Li-ion batteries being rated at their base unboosted voltage, still the battery is tiny, can only be 2 x 18650 cells at 22Wh.
    Batteries yes, but not battery power packs. That's why I move away from Volts and Amps and switch to Watts ASAP when talking capacity and energy consumption/generation. Its the only unambiguous terminology.
    Cheers

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  13. #71
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    Default Re: Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes

    I am constantly amazed at the number of people who seriously have NFC what they are talking about giving bad, or poorly googled, advice on serious technical subjects? If the topic is not your field of expertise then just STFU and learn? Why offer ### advice to the poor guy who is trying to learn? To the guys who know their sh1t thanks but try to keep it simple. Bottom line is MSW will be detrimental to your electronics, we just cant tell you how severe the results will be. A small inverter genny will cost the same, last longer and give better performance.
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  14. #72
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    Default Re: Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by ryzen View Post
    I am constantly amazed at the number of people who seriously have NFC what they are talking about giving bad, or poorly googled, advice on serious technical subjects? If the topic is not your field of expertise then just STFU and learn? Why offer ### advice to the poor guy who is trying to learn? To the guys who know their sh1t thanks but try to keep it simple. Bottom line is MSW will be detrimental to your electronics, we just cant tell you how severe the results will be. A small inverter genny will cost the same, last longer and give better performance.
    Chill, today is Day Of Reconciliation after all. I wonder exactly which bad advice got your back up?

    What is great with replies from the so called sector who knows nothing, is to learn what they have done or tried, and the actual results, irrespective whether used correctly or not or what the theory says and predicts. Most here will be able to distinguish between bad and good advice, especially from corrective posts of "our local experts".

    Your statement "Bottom line is MSW will be detrimental to your electronics. we just cant tell you how severe the results will be" might be true, but is it correct and significant for all electronic devices?

    Some equipment like switched mode power supplies will run quite happily on MSW. I bought a cheap MSW 300W inverter from Makro shortly after I got my Defender in 2001 or 2002. I can't remember the name of it - it looked like it had a torriodal transformer inside with a small PC board - very primitive, in a white metal casing. It powered many laptops on our trips and ended up being my AC power source on a daily basis for many years for work, powering my laptops and various equipment, mostly via switched mode power supplies. It was handed "down" to one of our technicians, who still uses it on a near daily basis for his laptop and other stuff.

    Maybe it reduced the life of the power supplies by a few minutes or hours every time we connected it? In real terms, it made absolutely no difference as there were zero failures - equipment which was powered from it is either still operational, or retired, like the old laptops.

    I have no problem with MSW inverters if their limitations are known - they are a great stopgap if funds are tight. Can it be guaranteed that there will be no damage No. Are pure sine wave inverters preferred? Of course.


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  16. #73
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    Default Re: Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by ryzen View Post
    I am constantly amazed at the number of people who seriously have NFC what they are talking about giving bad, or poorly googled, advice on serious technical subjects? If the topic is not your field of expertise then just STFU and learn? Why offer ### advice to the poor guy who is trying to learn? To the guys who know their sh1t thanks but try to keep it simple. Bottom line is MSW will be detrimental to your electronics, we just cant tell you how severe the results will be. A small inverter genny will cost the same, last longer and give better performance.
    "A small inverter genny will cost the same, last longer and give better performance."

    I'm not sure the other people living in my apartment block would agree with this statement.
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  17. #74
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    Default Re: Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes

    Ended up getting a good deal one of the Mustek 700W inverters.

    Made sense to me as I already had the battery and battery box from the camp setup (105ah High Cycle and Snomaster Battery Box). Quick and easy to add the inverter.

    Bigger than I thought it might be, and there is a buzz when it's being used. Plus the fan is fairly loud as mentioned (only one when on fail over or charging).

    But tbh, for its intended usage it's fine. You dont notice the fan and buzz after a few minutes and it switches over seamlessly when the power goes.

    Fan does run for about an hour, after power comes back on, whilst it recharges the battery.

    Any idea how the charger controls the charge? Does it measure the voltage and stop once full, or does it just run for a preset time? What voltage is it calibrated to?

    Perfect world I would put it in an adjacent room to the TV, and then run an extension cord. But I dont have that luxury in a one bedroom apartment.
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  18. #75
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    Default Re: Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiksilver View Post
    .........Any idea how the charger controls the charge? Does it measure the voltage and stop once full, or does it just run for a preset time? What voltage is it calibrated to?..........

    I have the Mecer 1400W. It will charge up to 14V (with the fan running). Thereafter it just keeps it at +-13.6V. In silence.

    .
    Last edited by KobusDJ; 2018/12/19 at 08:22 AM.
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  20. #76
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    Default Re: Plug n Play UPS/Inverter/power supply boxes

    Quote Originally Posted by DC Polokwane View Post
    Going down to 10v will kill a battery quickly! 12v is about 50%, anything lower and you're severely shortening the battery life and dramatically increasing the charge time. (Lead-acid deep cycle batteries)

    Is there a preset cut off voltage or is it user adjustable?
    Depends what battery you are using.
    With small SLA batteries that I'm referring to I end the discharge cycle at 10.8V
    See specs (attached). The last table shows the typical time for constant current discharge. Note the cutout voltages!
    Attached Images Attached Images

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