The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience




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  1. #1
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    Default The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    Every time I see it, I smile and think, all you are impressing is the uninformed. Again I saw the comment about the 2018 facelift Suz.

    Why is this or that torque so low.....that and the other has peak torque 50Nm (or what-ever) more.....

    In short, peak torque means NOTHING, unless that engine is linked to a continuous variable drive. Something we don't have in our trucks.

    As long as we have gears, the important thing that nobody talks about, is what is available over what rev range.

    We all know the saying about somebody who heard a bell, but.....

    This syndrome is actually called the "Dunning Kruger effect". Contrary to the "Imposter Syndrome" (Trolls fall into this category), the former actually BELIEVES that they KNOW what they're talking about.

    I can think of a couple of drivers owning specific makes of vehicles who makes Dunning Kruger even worse by also suffering from a very misplaced overinflated ego. I wonder if they know just how stupid they sound.

    See the below. Which one would you rather own. What you choose says a lot about you.
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    Sakkie Coetzee

    Some people say I have a "short temper"....I see it as swift and assertive reaction to Bull!

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  3. #2
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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    Totally agree.

    Love the flat torque curves, as with the 1HDFTE.

    These new engines are extremely peaky and thus the 10spd gearbox.

    Personally, I prefer that flat curve.
    LC 78 Troopie 1HD-FTE
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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    With a 4 speed gearbox, probably the red one.
    With a 8 speed gearbox, probably the blue one.

    All depends what you are trying to do.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

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  6. #4
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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    Me?....I'd love to have the red curve in front of a 10 speed box, because then I can crawl rocks at 1000rpm and 6:1 ratio 1st gear, AND chase up long sand dunes at 4500rpm
    Sakkie Coetzee

    Some people say I have a "short temper"....I see it as swift and assertive reaction to Bull!

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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    Taking the blue curve one Dune riding should earn you lots of friends and experience in getting stuck in sand. with a normale box that is?
    Reminds me of a two stroke motorbikes rev band.
    Last edited by Karoo Klong; 2018/11/03 at 09:22 AM.

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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    Of het ek nou gewys ek weet niks van duine ry nie? Want ek doen nie.

  10. #7
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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    I agree with your sentiment, but not the reference to Dunning Kruger.

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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkie View Post
    Me?....I'd love to have the red curve in front of a 10 speed box, because then I can crawl rocks at 1000rpm and 6:1 ratio 1st gear, AND chase up long sand dunes at 4500rpm
    Hierdie het my nou aan die dink, ek het gereken met die blou kurwe sal jy makliker vassit in die sand maar nou besef ek dit is omdat ek gewoond is aan kruip en stadig oor hindernisse beweeg, as jou krag te gekonsentreerd is dan staan jy grooter gevaar om te glip en jouself vas te spin in los sand of modder...
    Maar in duine soek jy juis die spoed en wil nie stadig kruip nie...
    Dankie oom Sakkie..

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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkie View Post
    Me?....I'd love to have the red curve in front of a 10 speed box, because then I can crawl rocks at 1000rpm and 6:1 ratio 1st gear, AND chase up long sand dunes at 4500rpm
    And it will have lousy acceleration, poor performance in general traffic driving, feeling like it is always in the wrong gear.

    Having more gears in the red curve is a total waste and will frustrate you no end as there will be very little difference in RPM and torque between adjacent gears. You will land up driving with skipping gears on purpose all the time.

    If you want to rock crawl and dune dash, you donít need more gears, you need wider ratios and the wide torque curve will take care of everything.

    Flat torque curve motors with lots of gears are horrible.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    Same engine , different gearbox....

    Go drive a amarok manual and a auto in the dunes........ you will quickly see how a narrow torque band hinders you if you dont have lots of gears in a quick shifting box

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  16. #11
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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    ...compromise that I would LOVE to live with Keith.

    ....auto? Lovely!!!!
    Program the gearbox to change according to kW curve vs throttle position. The wide torque curve takes care of the rest.

    Manual? Turn it into a 5-speed by changing 2,4,6,8,10 on road. Done this every time driving a heavy vehicle unladen.

    ....and now I'm lus for a project vehicle!!!!!!!!
    Sakkie Coetzee

    Some people say I have a "short temper"....I see it as swift and assertive reaction to Bull!

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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    Both these would work for me!
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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkie View Post
    Me?....I'd love to have the red curve in front of a 10 speed box, because then I can crawl rocks at 1000rpm and 6:1 ratio 1st gear, AND chase up long sand dunes at 4500rpm
    With the spliter box in front of the gearbox of the Yank Ranger You end up with 16 forward and 4 reverse ratios. Did I mention the the v8 have a very flat torque curve. It is really nice to be able to have the correct ratio for almost every obstacle. You can crawl and race Would love to have a 4 Speed Atlas T-Case in a 4x4.

    O Ja we are going for more power and torque with the 408 stroker.

    But then I know nothing about torque, engines and 4x4`s
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    And it will have lousy acceleration, poor performance in general traffic driving, feeling like it is always in the wrong gear.

    Having more gears in the red curve is a total waste and will frustrate you no end as there will be very little difference in RPM and torque between adjacent gears. You will land up driving with skipping gears on purpose all the time.

    If you want to rock crawl and dune dash, you don’t need more gears, you need wider ratios and the wide torque curve will take care of everything.

    Flat torque curve motors with lots of gears are horrible.
    In platkarre maybe. But who drives platkarre. You could never have enough ratios for off road conditions. The flatter the torque curve the the more ratios the better 4x4. 10 Speed box will be fine in a manual or even auto if you can keep it in a selected gear.
    Last edited by grips; 2018/11/04 at 08:20 PM.
    It is not what you buy its what you build.

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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    One of the main reasons that I love my donkey.
    Mine runs at 600 nM and 200 kW thou, irrespectively, look at that curve, or lack of curve in this case.
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    Toyota Land Cruiser 79 DC V8
    Toyota Hilux 2.8 GD6 4x4
    Toyota RAV-4 2.2 D4D

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  22. #16
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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    Very much the same profile as the 1HDFTE..... (Just not the same figures)
    LC 78 Troopie 1HD-FTE
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  23. #17
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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    these works for me just fine.
    First is what the touareg does.
    Second one is the Naturally aspirated v10 S6 audi.
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    Last edited by Stephan van Tonder; 2018/11/05 at 08:42 AM.
    Audi S6 2008 - v10 Quattro
    Audi A6 Avant - 2005 - 3l TDi Quattro
    Audi Q5 - 2009 - 3l TDI Qauttro
    Audi 90 Coupe - 1995 - 2.8l V6 quattro
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  25. #18
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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    Can i Have the dotted horizontal line?
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    Default Re: The difference between Keybord- and real knowledge and experience

    You can. You buy a twin charged 1.4 vw petrol. Although it only make around 280 nm it literally does it flat from like 1200 rpm to 5000 rpm.
    I'll see if I can look up the graph on the dyno computer later.
    Was the car with the flattest torque curve I have ever seen.
    Audi S6 2008 - v10 Quattro
    Audi A6 Avant - 2005 - 3l TDi Quattro
    Audi Q5 - 2009 - 3l TDI Qauttro
    Audi 90 Coupe - 1995 - 2.8l V6 quattro
    VW Touareg - 2005 - V10 TDi Awd
    VW Passat CC - 2013 - 2l TDi bluemotion(repair project)

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