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Thread: Is this it?

  1. #3621
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike N View Post
    Simple; a single vehicle with which you could pull a plough, power your farm impliments via PTO, drive around anywhere on the farm, transport sick animals (not too big though), and take on the road to take your produce to town while bringing back supplies, etc. And also a tool to get rid of excess Birmabright aluminium after WWII. Its name was also descriptive, it was a Rover (the vehicle brand) that could take to the land, therefor a Land Rover. The Defender bit was always a BS name in any case.
    In my eyes the closests modern interpretation of the original Land Rover will eventually be the Cybertruck; go anywhere, power all modern tools, enough torque to plow with should you want, stainless steel so it does not rust, etc. etc.
    That was indeed the marketing ages ago. That changed years ago already when LR ventured into modern society. Don't blame the Defender, blame their marketing department for moving on with the times and wanting to stay relevant.
    Disclaimer - All my posts on this forum is without prejudice, is based on my fair assumptions or perceptions, is in no way intended to cause harm to anyone and is acted upon at your own discretion.

  2. #3622
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike N View Post
    Simple; a single vehicle with which you could pull a plough, power your farm impliments via PTO, drive around anywhere on the farm, transport sick animals (not too big though), and take on the road to take your produce to town while bringing back supplies, etc. And also a tool to get rid of excess Birmabright aluminium after WWII.
    Is that the official design philosophy? I'm genuinely asking here...
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by douglash View Post
    Is that the official design philosophy? I'm genuinely asking here...
    Yep, they needed to jump-start the agricultural sector after the war, and this was key to motorising the farms.

    And they had bucket loads of parts and aluminium lying around after they stopped manufacturing war machines.

    It was a no-brainer really, and at the time there was ZEEO requirement for safety, much less comfort.
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  5. #3624
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Any person with half a business brain will know that a product that was a top revenue generator 10 years ago, might not necessarily be generating that same revenue today. The quickest way to close your business is to try to convince yourself that that specific product should still be marketed the same way as back then.

    I promise you that LR is not in the market to content with Agrimark on farming equipment or still stressing about keeping alive by turning leftover material into a marketable product. They have also embraced change, perhaps their loyal customer base need to also.
    Last edited by George; 2020/08/12 at 09:23 AM.
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  7. #3625
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    I promise you that LR is not in the market to content with Agrimark on farming equipment or still stressing about keeping alive by turning leftover material into a marketable product. They have also embraced change, perhaps their loyal customer base need to also.
    I used to be "Land Rovers loyal customer base".

    Lets pretend for a moment that I'm still farming, which I'm not...

    I need a vehicle that can drive 50 km of corrugated gravel every day, I also move 1.3 tons of feed on a weekly basis, I drive a fence line weekly, I do game captures, following darted game where they run and fall, not along tracks, in the veld, over trees, rocks and bushes. I do game drives, loading 10 pax on the vehicle, often off the track in to the veld. I follow wounded animals through hunting or whatever else. I collect hunted animals where they lie.

    And most demanding on the vehicle, I fight fires, load 1000 kg of water and fire fighting equipment on to the vehicle and follow the fire where it burns, fires don't follow roads, it's over rocks, through dongas, over trees and bushes, and it's hot, melt your door handles hot. and if the vehicle breaks down it will could cost the vehicle or your life.

    I could buy a new or 20 year old Defender and do these things.

    Could you please explain to me what you mean by I should "embrace change".

    Would you like me to tar my entire farm, tar the corrugated gravel road, ask the game to stay on the tracks when they're darted, ask hunters to make sure that they only hunt animals in the road, ask the fire to stop burning so hot and where it is difficult to drive....? Would you like me to check that the fuel at my local general dealer is of a good quality, cause that's where I fill up..? Do you think that Land Rover will open a dealership on my property so that I'm not stranded without a vehicle for three days for an electronic niggle?
    Last edited by Fontuin; 2020/08/12 at 02:42 PM.
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fontuin View Post
    I used to be "Land Rovers loyal customer base".

    Lets pretend for a moment that I'm still farming, which I'm not...

    I need a vehicle that can drive 50 km of corrugated gravel every day, I also move 1.3 tons of feed on a weekly basis, I drive a fence line weekly, I do game captures, following darted game where they run and fall, not along tracks, in the veld, over trees, rocks and bushes. I do game drives, loading 10 pax on the vehicle, often off the track in to the veld. I follow wounded animals through hunting or whatever else. I collect hunted animals where they lie.

    And most demanding on the vehicle, I fight fires, load 1000 kg of water and fire fighting equipment on to the vehicle and follow the fire where it burns, fires don't follow roads, it's over rocks, through dongas, over trees and bushes, and it's hot, melt your door handles hot. and if the vehicle breaks down it will could cost the vehicle or your life.

    I could buy a new or 20 year old Defender and do these things.

    Could you please explain to me what you mean by I should "embrace change".

    Would you like me to tar my entire farm, tar the corrugated gravel road, ask the game to stay on the tracks when they're darted, ask hunters to make sure that they only hunt animals in the road, ask the fire to stop burning so hot and where it is difficult to drive....? Would you like me to check that the fuel at my local general dealer is of a good quality, cause that's where I fill up..? Do you think that Land Rover will open a dealership on my property so that I'm not stranded without a vehicle for three days for an electronic niggle?
    Clearly you are among the very, very, very few customers that the old defender is suited. But of course JLR want to churn thousands of defenders per month, and folk like you were a drop in the ocean. So they moved on.

    But even for the old defender, only a small percentage of users pushed it to the limits u mentioned here.

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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by byaru1 View Post
    But of course JLR want to churn thousands of defenders per month, and folk like you were a drop in the ocean. So they moved on.
    Does anybody have the sales stats so far for the New Defender?
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Does anybody have the sales stats so far for the New Defender?
    Whatever the numbers can't be good given the covid-19 constraints globally

  11. #3629
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by byaru1 View Post
    Whatever the numbers can't be good given the covid-19 constraints globally
    Good excuse
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  12. #3630
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by byaru1 View Post
    Clearly you are among the very, very, very few customers that the old defender is suited. But of course JLR want to churn thousands of defenders per month, and folk like you were a drop in the ocean. So they moved on.

    But even for the old defender, only a small percentage of users pushed it to the limits u mentioned here.
    Exactly that. Any business aim towards increasing their bottom line and meeting the expectations of the bulk or core of their customers.

    Sadly in Fontuin's case, LR has clearly moved out of that space. It has nothing to do with the new Defender being called a Defender or a Discovery. The latest version is just not suited for his application. For me it will probably not work as well. That doesn't imply that it is not worthy of the name or is deemed a failure in general.
    Disclaimer - All my posts on this forum is without prejudice, is based on my fair assumptions or perceptions, is in no way intended to cause harm to anyone and is acted upon at your own discretion.

  13. #3631
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Interesting camper concept, not sure about feasibility though

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CD0HBbyM44k/

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    Last edited by Orxy; 2020/08/13 at 08:24 AM.
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    TFL's towing test

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  15. #3633
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    I took one for a spin yesterday.... A 240 S, with action pack and offroad pack. I like the way it drives, and that gearbox is very nice. I was surprised at how plasticky it was on the inside, and that fake alutrim on the bonnet is just horrible. This one had the centre console fridge in with that huge armrest charger thingy. I was just wondering how much stuff you are going to lose inside all those nooks and crannies. I love the big wheels and on 18" rims the tyres look fine. I just cannot get my head around the R1.29 million price. It feels and drives like something that should be costing R400k less. In my opinion the current prices are way inflated.
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  16. #3634
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fontuin View Post
    I used to be "Land Rovers loyal customer base".

    Lets pretend for a moment that I'm still farming, which I'm not...

    I need a vehicle that can drive 50 km of corrugated gravel every day, I also move 1.3 tons of feed on a weekly basis, I drive a fence line weekly, I do game captures, following darted game where they run and fall, not along tracks, in the veld, over trees, rocks and bushes. I do game drives, loading 10 pax on the vehicle, often off the track in to the veld. I follow wounded animals through hunting or whatever else. I collect hunted animals where they lie.

    And most demanding on the vehicle, I fight fires, load 1000 kg of water and fire fighting equipment on to the vehicle and follow the fire where it burns, fires don't follow roads, it's over rocks, through dongas, over trees and bushes, and it's hot, melt your door handles hot. and if the vehicle breaks down it will could cost the vehicle or your life.

    I could buy a new or 20 year old Defender and do these things.

    Could you please explain to me what you mean by I should "embrace change".

    Would you like me to tar my entire farm, tar the corrugated gravel road, ask the game to stay on the tracks when they're darted, ask hunters to make sure that they only hunt animals in the road, ask the fire to stop burning so hot and where it is difficult to drive....? Would you like me to check that the fuel at my local general dealer is of a good quality, cause that's where I fill up..? Do you think that Land Rover will open a dealership on my property so that I'm not stranded without a vehicle for three days for an electronic niggle?

    Hats off to you for doing all that stuff in a defender...whenever I sit in one I get a backache.

    Won't those very few farmers still using defenders for serious work move on to the LC 70?

    Or maybe, if they really want to stay with the brand , change job and become accountants or footballers?

  17. #3635
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goPuC73EUug

    Not exactly a fair competition, or is it ?

    So I reckon the solution is to buy both Defenders:

    1) Buy a old Defender, fit with lockers and proper tyres and keep it for life as your Landy and have fun with it or use it as a proper farm/work vehicle.

    2) Buy new Defender for everyday, driving to shops, going to site, game reserves, towing and the usual SUV stuff.

    Or even better buy the old Defender and just buy a Disco 5 or Range Rover Sport. Best of both worlds.

    As usual the Toyota was leading from behind in the video.
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  18. #3636
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Some exciting news for me - a friend has now done 3000km in his new Defender, and now wants to test if off-raod against my RRS.

    We are now debating which of these two trails we're going to do: Tierkloof vs Kroonland

    The first one has some very technical sections, and my RRS struggles a bit with the one obstacle requiring plenty of rock building, whereas the second one will be very slippery as it has been raining non-stop for the past week.

    A tricked out 90 with full ARB lockers will also be there, along with another new Defender.

    decisions, decisions!
    Last edited by Orxy; 2020/08/13 at 10:26 AM.
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  19. #3637
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashtego9 View Post
    Hats off to you for doing all that stuff in a defender...whenever I sit in one I get a backache.

    Won't those very few farmers still using defenders for serious work move on to the LC 70?
    Yes, thankfully I'm quite short so I fit in.

    People who need a workhorse will be moving to other brands yes. They all had their pros and cons, there were certain things that the Defender did really well though...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashtego9 View Post
    Or maybe, if they really want to stay with the brand , change job and become accountants or footballers?
    Perhaps this is what George meant by "embrace change"... ? I wonder where the food is going to come from, or the steel, wood, precious metals, building material and who is going to manage game reserves water and electrical infrastructure...?
    Last edited by Fontuin; 2020/08/13 at 03:33 PM.
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  20. #3638
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    What were JLR thinking, surely they should have consulted this forum first......
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  22. #3639
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fontuin View Post
    I used to be "Land Rovers loyal customer base".

    Lets pretend for a moment that I'm still farming, which I'm not...

    I need a vehicle that can drive 50 km of corrugated gravel every day, I also move 1.3 tons of feed on a weekly basis, I drive a fence line weekly, I do game captures, following darted game where they run and fall, not along tracks, in the veld, over trees, rocks and bushes. I do game drives, loading 10 pax on the vehicle, often off the track in to the veld. I follow wounded animals through hunting or whatever else. I collect hunted animals where they lie.

    And most demanding on the vehicle, I fight fires, load 1000 kg of water and fire fighting equipment on to the vehicle and follow the fire where it burns, fires don't follow roads, it's over rocks, through dongas, over trees and bushes, and it's hot, melt your door handles hot. and if the vehicle breaks down it will could cost the vehicle or your life.

    I could buy a new or 20 year old Defender and do these things.

    Could you please explain to me what you mean by I should "embrace change".

    Would you like me to tar my entire farm, tar the corrugated gravel road, ask the game to stay on the tracks when they're darted, ask hunters to make sure that they only hunt animals in the road, ask the fire to stop burning so hot and where it is difficult to drive....? Would you like me to check that the fuel at my local general dealer is of a good quality, cause that's where I fill up..? Do you think that Land Rover will open a dealership on my property so that I'm not stranded without a vehicle for three days for an electronic niggle?
    So your complaint: LR made a vehicle that suits the current you and not the hypothetical you. And thats why it sucks?

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  24. #3640
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamtheman View Post
    What were JLR thinking, surely they should have consulted this forum first......

    This... ^^^^^^^

    I'm going to frame this and hang it in my office...

    Brilliant..

    Now if we can just agree on how to turn water into wine...
    Last edited by Marcochezzi; 2020/08/14 at 07:55 AM.
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