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Thread: Is this it?

  1. #3041
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fontuin View Post
    A question that I was pondering my self.

    I think that the Granedier will be more comfortable? That won't take much.

    I've always been of the opinion that the Defender's largest challenge has been a poor dealership network in rural areas and lack of interest in the vehicle from Land Rover.

    The interest in the Granedier is clearly there from the manufacturer, I don't know if it will be possible to build the dealership network without having an established brand and large volume vehicles to sell together with the Granedier?

    Do whatever it is that Toyota are doing to move LC70s? Or Suzuki are doing to move Jimny's? They have other, fast mover vehicles in their range to keep sales ticking over in rural areas... Grenadier won't have that.

    Perhaps they'll go in to some sort of an arrangement with another manufacturer and piggyback on their dealership network? Some other industry that supplies the professional off-road market. Sell it together with excavators and tractors... someone like Caterpillar, Bell, Massey Ferguson, Mining Equipment... or co-ops? Put them out on tender to industries..?

    They're building a proper no compromise workhorse, I'm quite interested to see what their sales strategy will be.

    They have set themselves a tough task.
    This really is the best option. Have the decided on engines yet ? If they use BMW engines then maybe they can do deal with BMW dealers - no competition for this type of vehicle at BMW. It could be VERY interesting - I think the price will be just too much. Hopefully they score some Army / Mining contracts to get the numbers going and we consumers then get a bite at it

    Does seem VERY well designed at this stage.

    If they can get the African Safari Market - it could be nice for us SA consumers.
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  2. #3042
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Agreed with previous posters: Grenadier is VERY ambitious. I hope they succeed.

    But I can't see them being able to make money, in which case they will either go bust quite soon, or price their product unrealistically above everything else, even the competition. And then go bust.

    I feel like a killjoy. I'm a bit of a cynic as far as big engineering developments (in niches such as this) are concerned. They always cost way more than anticipated, and bring in way less cash than anticipated. Everyone (well, the dreamers and niche market inhabitants) gets very excited and then.......

    As much as I love the intention.

    I hope I am wrong. And if I am right, hopefully they make a few of them first
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  3. #3043
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by zoneout View Post
    Agreed with previous posters: Grenadier is VERY ambitious. I hope they succeed.

    But I can't see them being able to make money, in which case they will either go bust quite soon, or price their product unrealistically above everything else, even the competition. And then go bust.

    I feel like a killjoy. I'm a bit of a cynic as far as big engineering developments (in niches such as this) are concerned. They always cost way more than anticipated, and bring in way less cash than anticipated. Everyone (well, the dreamers and niche market inhabitants) gets very excited and then.......

    As much as I love the intention.

    I hope I am wrong. And if I am right, hopefully they make a few of them first
    What's the real differentiator between coming grenadier and other ladder frame SUVs like everest, prado, fortuner, LC200 and 70 series SW, Wrangler... If none, I'm a bit pessimistic of its success given unknown brand.

    If they had partnered with JLR to make it the new defender (wishful thinking), perhaps it would have been a different story.

  4. #3044
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by byaru1 View Post
    What's the real differentiator between coming grenadier and other ladder frame SUVs like everest, prado, fortuner, LC200 and 70 series SW, Wrangler... If none, I'm a bit pessimistic of its success given unknown brand.
    The Grenadier is like the 70 Series LC not like a Fortuner or LC200.

    Fortuner is an LDV built on the same plat-from as a Hi-Lux and Quantum. It starts life as a vehicle to deliver goods on roads and then it is modified for leisure, off-roading... whatever.

    LC 200 and Prado is a luxury SUV, like the Discovery or the New Defender. Built for wealthy white collared workers who enjoy some occasional off-roading.

    Wrangler is built on a very similar platform (to the Grenadier), but more for off-road leisure, it is a dedicated leisure off-roader. The Gladiator will be the closest that Jeep builds to a Grenadier but still aimed at the leisure market.

    The Grenadier, like the discontinued Defender is a Light Weight Off Road Truck, a dedicated agricultural/industrial workhorse. A mini Unimorg, Iveco Daily 4x4... Built as such from the ground up.

    Heavier stronger chassis, bigger stronger suspension components, live -axles are the most durable type, best for carrying a load and off-road. As as simply built as possible, to quote Grenadier, "...nothing goes in unless it has to go in..".

    It's been explained many times before.
    Last edited by Fontuin; 2020/05/05 at 08:23 AM.
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  6. #3045
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    OK so has anybody actually bought one of these things in ZA? 153 pages and nobody has pulled the trigger?
    Last edited by jelo; 2020/05/05 at 08:17 AM.
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    OK so has anybody actually bought one of these things in ZA? 153 pages and nobody has pulled the trigger?

    they havent arrived yet and will probably be late due to the lockdown and pandemic going on.
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    OK so has anybody actually bought one of these things in ZA? 153 pages and nobody has pulled the trigger?
    I've bought one - supposed to be arriving on 21 June but pretty sure the closure of the factory will impact delivery times. My dealer told me they were selling very well, but maybe he would say that?
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMark View Post
    I've bought one - supposed to be arriving on 21 June but pretty sure the closure of the factory will impact delivery times. My dealer told me they were selling very well, but maybe he would say that?

    My dealer told me the same thing. I cant remember the figure but at the time I saw him in March he had sold 6 or 7 IIRC before me. I havent got the heart to tell him I may cancel now as the poor guy has been in lockdown and obviously has not made any money during that time.
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceT View Post
    My dealer told me the same thing. I cant remember the figure but at the time I saw him in March he had sold 6 or 7 IIRC before me. I havent got the heart to tell him I may cancel now as the poor guy has been in lockdown and obviously has not made any money during that time.
    If you've ordered, surely you need to cancel ASAP? Aren't these things built per custom order?
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  11. #3050
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceT View Post
    My dealer told me the same thing. I cant remember the figure but at the time I saw him in March he had sold 6 or 7 IIRC before me. I havent got the heart to tell him I may cancel now as the poor guy has been in lockdown and obviously has not made any money during that time.
    What will be interesting is when they arrive will they honour the quoted price? Rand has depreciated significantly over the lockdown period. I'm already having second thoughts about spending so much money with the economy in a perilous state. If they push the prices up by 20% I will definitely have to cancel.
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  12. #3051
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    If you've ordered, surely you need to cancel ASAP? Aren't these things built per custom order?
    When things are "normal" they usually don't have a problem selling a customer order to someone else so dealers are usually happy to refund deposits. In the current environment - I"m not so sure.
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  13. #3052
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMark View Post
    What will be interesting is when they arrive will they honour the quoted price? Rand has depreciated significantly over the lockdown period. I'm already having second thoughts about spending so much money with the economy in a perilous state. If they push the prices up by 20% I will definitely have to cancel.

    Usually they are but the first batch that are coming in have been built by sales managers at the dealerships. Some really stupid builds have been done......like for example all the off road trickery but then they have added 22 inch wheels.

    So in my case I have given them a spec I want which they are trying to get, a vehicle closest to it. So far the closest spec is a colour I really dont like and the next closest spec coming in has 22 inch wheels. So I have a way out.
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  14. #3053
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMark View Post
    What will be interesting is when they arrive will they honour the quoted price? Rand has depreciated significantly over the lockdown period. I'm already having second thoughts about spending so much money with the economy in a perilous state. If they push the prices up by 20% I will definitely have to cancel.

    I am sure this first batch will be at the quoted price as they would have either paid already or bought forward cover. This may be a huge benifit to the first ones delivered......but yeah, i changed my mind for a number of reasons.
    - Im planning some big rough trips and the New Defender will not carry what I need it to carry. I dont want to tow
    - Guys here convinced me its not as tough as it should be and I could easily use my D5 and achieve the same as I would in the new defender
    - For less money I can drive a D5 daily (dont really use it daily as I ride a bike) and have a properly built 130 for my trips
    - I too am concerned about the future and financial situation in SA, so dont want to have more debt on a vehicle that will depreciate drastically.
    - I still love the old defender.
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceT View Post
    Usually they are but the first batch that are coming in have been built by sales managers at the dealerships. Some really stupid builds have been done......like for example all the off road trickery but then they have added 22 inch wheels.

    So in my case I have given them a spec I want which they are trying to get, a vehicle closest to it. So far the closest spec is a colour I really dont like and the next closest spec coming in has 22 inch wheels. So I have a way out.
    Thats interesting - mine is a custom build and its supposed to be in the first batch of arrivals. I suspect what happened in that the dealers modified one of their orders to my spec before the cut off date for changes. I subsequently tried to change the spec slightly and they said that it was too late.
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  16. #3055
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMark View Post
    Thats interesting - mine is a custom build and its supposed to be in the first batch of arrivals. I suspect what happened in that the dealers modified one of their orders to my spec before the cut off date for changes. I subsequently tried to change the spec slightly and they said that it was too late.
    From my understanding many spec's where ordered in Feb. So if you placed your order before Feb you probably will get the spec you want.
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  17. #3056
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceT View Post
    - I still love the old defender.
    This may be the real reason, and all others mere bluff

  18. #3057
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    I ordered one.
    Put a 50k deposit down. But I'll need to cancel now. Will probably be joining the UIF queue soon . I just can't get it over my heart to tell them yet. (Not for their sake but more because I'm so gutted about it)
    But I realise there are people out there with far bigger things to be gutted about.
    But I should probably do it sooner rather than later.... Especially if there's to be any hope of recovering the deposit....

  19. #3058
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by shady View Post
    I ordered one.
    Put a 50k deposit down. But I'll need to cancel now. Will probably be joining the UIF queue soon . I just can't get it over my heart to tell them yet. (Not for their sake but more because I'm so gutted about it)
    But I realise there are people out there with far bigger things to be gutted about.
    But I should probably do it sooner rather than later.... Especially if there's to be any hope of recovering the deposit....

    Sorry to hear Shady. Good luck with everything.
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  20. #3059
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    deleted
    Last edited by zoneout; 2020/05/06 at 09:57 AM. Reason: Posted something that had already been posted (Defender V8)
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    https://www.whichcar.com.au/reviews/2020-land-rover-defender-l663-review


    Drive impressions
    Our first taste of the new Land Rover came in Namibia driving a D240 variant looking very traditional in its Pangaea Green paint with white roof and white steel wheels. The overall look of the new vehicle is sure to be polarising, as it takes no prisoners with a design that is modern while incorporating hues of the classic Land Rovers of the past.

    The vehicles on this trip were fitted with the Expedition package which includes a raised air-intake snorkel, expedition roof rack, a ladder to access the roof on the passenger’s side, and a storage box on the driver’s side. They were also fitted with Goodyear Duratrac all-terrain tyres to conquer sharp, rocky tracks in confidence.

    The D240 is powered by the 2.0-litre Ingenium diesel engine that makes a sprightly 177kW and 430Nm, making light work of the steep African terrain and sandy tracks. The diesel engine is stunningly quiet both at idle and under load and you’d be hard-pressed to pick it as a diesel from within the cabin.

    The eight-speed automatic transmission is perfectly matched to the modern powerplant, giving smooth and refined shifting. The engine is relatively small but the power and torque figures are on the money; though it will be interesting to drive this combination with a heavier load on board than what we had here. ...

    The low-range/low-gear engine braking is good, but, even so, the descent still required the driver to hover a foot over the brake to control speed. We found the sensitivity of the brake-by-wire system to be odd, providing little to no retardation at minimum brake input and then jolting the vehicle to a stop if squeezed a tad more.

    We brought this up with chief engineer, Steven Frick, citing it as a problem, and he said we weren’t the first to note it and it is something the company will look at on the production vehicles. All of these cars were pre-production models and calibration of the brake-by-wire system should be easy to refine to get the right feel and performance. It’s something we’ll certainly look for when we get to drive production vehicles back here in Australia later this year. ...

    We also got to drive the P400 110, and what a pleasure that was. This is powered by Land Rover’s new 3.0-litre inline six-cylinder, turbocharged petrol engine, which is also boosted by an electric supercharger feeding from the 48-volt electrical system. The theory is that the electric supercharger provides the boost at low revs before the turbocharger wakes up as the revs climb.

    It works too, with 294kW on tap and 550Nm from as low as 2000rpm. That torque feels almost diesel-like in its delivery, making the P400 a pleasure to drive both at low speed over off-road terrain and quicker over fast-flowing roads.

    We didn’t get actual fuel figures on this drive, but at fill-up time the diesel D240s were taking almost half as much fuel as the petrol P400s, and that’s driving over the same 680km route, of which only 4km were on sealed roads.

    It was on these flowing open roads that the true ‘breadth of ability’ of the new Defender revealed itself. Never before has a Defender felt so composed at speed – it is a real confidence-inspiring high-speed tourer. The steering is perfectly weighted and the communication of the suspension through to the driver is superb for such a large vehicle. The L663 feels right at home on high-speed sand and gravel roads, which is something you would never have said about a Defender in the past.

    It’s this new-found performance and on-road manners that make this new Land Rover such a revelation which, depending on sale price, should be hugely popular in a big country like Australia. ...
    Last edited by Orxy; 2020/05/07 at 12:37 PM.
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