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Thread: Is this it?

  1. #3021
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Orxy View Post
    Odd, as JLR are stopping all V8s for the next gen RR/RRS and using BMW turbo engines...
    That's what I thought as well, I thought the 4.4 twin turbo
    V8 BM unit was pegged for the SVR version of the Defender. Maybe someone made a mistake on the capacity when registered

    We'll have to wait and see.
    Last edited by Byron; 2020/04/25 at 12:16 PM.
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    A kiwi review: https://www.driven.co.nz/reviews/giv...ns-in-namibia/

    ProsInstant icon: first new Defender in 72 years
    Impressive new Terrain Response system
    Subtle but clever heritage styling cues

    Cons
    Premium product so premium prices
    High-tech might put old-school 4x4 people off
    Still haven't driven this new model on the road ...


    ... The Defender ate it all up, notwithstanding a few consumables. We got three separate punctures on two different cars for example, but that hardly dented Land Rover’s stock of 120 spares for the event. There are some big rocks out there.


    The 18-inch painted-white steel wheels on the expedition D240 models are not only a fashion master-stroke, they’re more practical for off-roading. “I prefer them,” says lead Experience driver David Sneath. “Alloys can break. With these, they bend and you can just tap them back into shape and carry on.”


    Genuine problems are few. We get a power steering warning at one stage, possibly due to so much water being forced under the bonnet at high pressure as we rage through riverbeds for hours on end. We also lose a piece of sill trim after being instructed to attack a river crossing with “passion”. Could be considered corporate littering, I suppose. Once these cars get back to the UK, they’ll all be stripped down, inspected, analysed and rebuilt. And no, they won’t be resold; all are destined to work as support vehicles for Land Rover Experience events.


    Defender is a fascinating blend of heritage design and the very latest in Land Rover’s off-road technology. Petrol or diesel? I love the earnest clatter of a Defender with a compression-ignition engine, but this is a heavy car at 2.4 tonnes and it’s the grunty six-pot petrol that gives it truly engaging performance, whether you’re creating a rooster tail of sand or not.


    This was an exhausting trip, but not an exhaustive test of course. It was a chance for the Defender to establish its credentials in the harsh environment that helped create the legend, before heading out into the wider (urban) world… and a much broader customer base than the previous model could ever hope to attract. Also, a great chance for us to really give it the beans.
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  3. #3023
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear
    2015 Range Rover Sport Supercharged V8 HSE Dynamic



    Discovery 4 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zZ1en9

    Defender Puma Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zXrtKO
    Range Rover/Sport L320/L322/L494 Workshop Manual: https://bit.ly/2zc58JQ

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  5. #3024
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceT View Post
    After the discussions here (thank you) and seeing what New Defender spec's are coming in (ridiculous and clearly aimed at the yuppie) I have decided to keep the D5 and look for an old Defender 130. The safety still worries me but I will probably fit a roll cage anyway and as swambo reminded me, my daughters will probably very seldom join us on these trips anyway. Swambo has always said we should have never sold our Defender so I guess she wins. (its advertised currently in Pta with 167k kms on it. Looks pretty much exactly the same as when i sold it)

    So now to contradict some of the things Ive said in this thread, my plan is to find a decent 130 (which I may have already done so but obviously cant go see it - see below) and then build a proper Overland vehicle that will be used on our trips. I will be renewing everything on it mechanically when I get it - from suspension bushes to bearings and then upgrading many items, like intercooler, suspension, etc etc

    One thing that I have changed my mind on also, is possible damage to plastic and paint on the new defender on some of our trips - and with a friend mentioning a possible trip coming up following tropic of Capricorn from Mozambique coast to Namibian coast off road mostly, i think i would prefer a vehicle we can basically live out of. Also, packing space is a big question mark on the new Defender and on the 130, with a decent canopy i can pretty much build a trailer type setup that just opens up - i may try something like what the Aussie guys do to their UTE (is that correct). I am also a lazy camper and prefer to set up camp in a few minutes rather than unloading, unpacking, setting up etc I would prefer to just open a door and have everything there - like a kitchen section.


    Thanks for the discussions here, they have been very thought provoking and have changed my mind in certain cases. I havent changed my mind completely and still think that the New Defender in the correct spec would be awesome for holiday trips, but have changed my mind about it being suitable for extended overland trips (5 weeks plus), which we are now planning.
    The new defender needs such a bumper guard. It's such accessories that actually make a car start looking butch

    Looking forward to what ARB , TJM et al will offer.

  6. #3025
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    Post Re: Is this it?

    Just a few thoughts on my needs / wants with the new Defender

    I have not bought a new (out the box / nat nuut) car for myself for 20 years - did buy a few for business and SWAMBO and the "family" wagons that I consider not FOR me

    I am HAPPY with my D4 V8 - 2011 with 230,000km - there are a few niggles on a 9 year old car and the fuel - well the V8's horses needs to be fed...

    My daily travel is very do-able with an Electric / Hybrid vehicle and of the 4 sons 2 now at Uni.

    SO - My ideal thinking is:

    a New Defender 90 Hybrid as my Daily - just FUN and practical FOR me and great 4x4 option
    a New Defender 130 as the holiday / family / overland - this will also replace the Kia wagon (YES )

    PROBLEM

    This set-up not available for what 2-3 years and with current state of the world we have zero clue when and in SA .. when if ever ..

    SO .... I want to buy a New 90 / 110 - my gat juk serious - I can do it financially

    BUT

    I love cars - hell I own to many - have zero debt on them and see them as pure an expense and joy not an asset at all and thus buy 2nd hand keep for long time...

    My hart struggle to convince my head that R1.5m for a car is worth it .. this is not a refection on the new Defender price this is on ALL new cars ...

    EISH this is a bit of rambling of my thoughts

    I guess my question is - if you think of the above and I convince my head to spend on a new car for me what would be your advice ?

    - New 90 straight 6 petrol - all the bells and whistles - forget about Hybrid keep for 10 years
    - New 90 2.0 turbo petrol bare basics - test the 2.0 petrol have FUN and trade in when Hybrid arrives ..

    Cheers
    Last edited by NvD42; 2020/05/02 at 11:03 AM.
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  7. #3026
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by NvD42 View Post
    ...... My hart struggle to convince my head that R1.5m for a car is worth it .. this is not a refection on the new Defender price this is on ALL new cars ......
    Cheers
    Agree with you on that. Though for me its not so much "is it worth it" as "can I do better by buying second hand".

    I have also never bought a new car. I leave it for others to take the instant hit on value when its driven out of the showroom, and the steep slide that continues for the first few years.

    I think if its been your life habit, you may resent having to take all that depreciation yourself, especially buying at the higher end of new car price bracket.
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  8. #3027
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    For less money I will have a 2011 low mileage kitted out for overland 130 and a HSE D5. (seeing the 130 next week hopefully I will finalize the deal if I’m satisfied with it)

    i still love the new defender though and was going to take a 110 2.0 liter diesel SE. The 90 doesn’t make sense to me.
    BruceT
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  9. #3028
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceT View Post
    i still love the new defender though and was going to take a 110 2.0 liter diesel SE. The 90 doesn’t make sense to me.
    Do we know if the diesels will be EURO3 or EURO4.. so they can at least venture a bit into Africa..

  10. #3029
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by byaru1 View Post
    Do we know if the diesels will be EURO3 or EURO4.. so they can at least venture a bit into Africa..
    Why would they go backwards?
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    Why would they go backwards?
    Are the current sdv6 and sdv8 not euro 4 for SA..?

  12. #3031
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Not one of those are being used
    Quote Originally Posted by byaru1 View Post
    Are the current sdv6 and sdv8 not euro 4 for SA..?
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  13. #3032
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    Not one of those are being used
    You perhaps missed the point a little...

    Even the newest motors can be repurposed and configured differently for the needs of different markets.

    The sdv6 and sdv8 in EU markets are euro6, those in SA are euro4 if not less. ULSD is not readily available everywhere in Southern Africa. Hence my question about the new defender diesel motors.

  14. #3033
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    https://ineosgrenadier.com/reveal/frame-axles

    I love the way they are developing this, out in the open, visible to all.

    Reliability drives the process.

    Frame and suspension have been done.

    I am wondering what the final selling price will be.

    Could it kill the defender , if priced right? (and if they can build a network).

  15. #3034
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceT View Post
    For less money I will have a 2011 low mileage kitted out for overland 130 and a HSE D5. (seeing the 130 next week hopefully I will finalize the deal if I’m satisfied with it)

    i still love the new defender though and was going to take a 110 2.0 liter diesel SE. The 90 doesn’t make sense to me.

    I understand your choice - possibly the best one out there ... I just have diff needs for now..

    My youngest son is 6 - and I have 4 sons Thus need some form of 7/8 seats and the new 130 could be the best option in that regard - more so as it will be great for holiday and touring. Just that little more packing space than the 110 and mybe if the new Defender is as great as we hope - the 130 can be converted in a VERY NICE camper (yes small) for me and SWAMBO after a few years


    The 90 does not make sense at the price compared to the 110
    BUT maybe that is my reason get a 90 that does NOT make sense and just enjoy
    The 90 should be better offroad - not ?

    Cheers

    Nico
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  16. #3035
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashtego9 View Post
    Could it kill the defender ,
    Land Rover already did that..

    I doubt whether the Grenadier will take any sales off Land Rover, they no longer offer a vehicle in the same segment of the market.

    I doubt that many who are considering the the New Defender will choose a Grenadier instead?

    That said, I know at least one person who was considering the New Defender who after some consideration has decided to opt for a second hand old Defender instead, so perhaps?

    It may take up some of the discontinued Defender sales?

    You are correct though, price and network will determine whether it survives.
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  18. #3036
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by tashtego9 View Post
    https://ineosgrenadier.com/reveal/frame-axles

    I love the way they are developing this, out in the open, visible to all.

    Reliability drives the process.

    Frame and suspension have been done.

    I am wondering what the final selling price will be.

    Could it kill the defender , if priced right? (and if they can build a network).
    Looks cool but I have one question, if the old Defender was not selling how will this and what will make it any different? (maybe improved comfort levels?)
    BruceT
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceT View Post
    Looks cool but I have one question, if the old Defender was not selling how will this and what will make it any different? (maybe improved comfort levels?)


    Yes, I am thinking more modern and comfortable but with less electronics compared to the modern SUVs. Also better built than the old defender.

    I really like that for every component/area they go and shop around for the best in the business in term of quality and durability.

    I can't see many bits of cheap plastic being used in it.

    I liked the way the engineer explained they are not using monocoque: "...we are not building an SUV".

    Which of course will bring the price up...to me that is the main issue with it. Will those people that need such a vehicle be able to afford it?
    Last edited by tashtego9; 2020/05/04 at 04:37 PM.

  20. #3038
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fontuin View Post
    Land Rover already did that..

    I doubt whether the Grenadier will take any sales off Land Rover, they no longer offer a vehicle in the same segment of the market.

    I doubt that many who are considering the the New Defender will choose a Grenadier instead?

    That said, I know at least one person who was considering the New Defender who after some consideration has decided to opt for a second hand old Defender instead, so perhaps?

    It may take up some of the discontinued Defender sales?

    You are correct though, price and network will determine whether it survives.
    I really hope it survives, it's not often that you see a vehicle built like this, from the ground up, getting the basics right.

    It's almost like someone's private build, but on an industrial scale.

  21. #3039
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by BruceT View Post
    Looks cool but I have one question, if the old Defender was not selling how will this and what will make it any different? (maybe improved comfort levels?)
    A question that I was pondering my self.

    I think that the Granedier will be more comfortable? That won't take much.

    I've always been of the opinion that the Defender's largest challenge has been a poor dealership network in rural areas and lack of interest in the vehicle from Land Rover.

    The interest in the Granedier is clearly there from the manufacturer, I don't know if it will be possible to build the dealership network without having an established brand and large volume vehicles to sell together with the Granedier?

    Do whatever it is that Toyota are doing to move LC70s? Or Suzuki are doing to move Jimny's? They have other, fast mover vehicles in their range to keep sales ticking over in rural areas... Grenadier won't have that.

    Perhaps they'll go in to some sort of an arrangement with another manufacturer and piggyback on their dealership network? Some other industry that supplies the professional off-road market. Sell it together with excavators and tractors... someone like Caterpillar, Bell, Massey Ferguson, Mining Equipment... or co-ops? Put them out on tender to industries..?

    They're building a proper no compromise workhorse, I'm quite interested to see what their sales strategy will be.

    They have set themselves a tough task.
    Last edited by Fontuin; 2020/05/04 at 04:45 PM.
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  22. #3040
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fontuin View Post
    A question that I was pondering my self.

    I think that the Granedier will be more comfortable? That won't take much.

    I've always been of the opinion that the Defender's largest challenge has been a poor dealership network in rural areas and lack of interest in the vehicle from Land Rover.

    The interest in the Granedier is clearly there from the manufacturer, I don't know if it will be possible to build the dealership network without having an established brand and large volume vehicles to sell together with the Granedier?

    Do whatever it is that Toyota are doing to move LC70s? Or Suzuki are doing to move Jimny's? They have other, fast mover vehicles in their range to keep sales ticking over in rural areas... Grenadier won't have that.

    Perhaps they'll go in to some sort of an arrangement with another manufacturer and piggyback on their dealership network? Some other industry that supplies the professional off-road market. Sell it together with excavators and tractors... someone like Caterpillar, Bell, Massey Ferguson, Mining Equipment... or co-ops? Put them out on tender to industries..?

    They're building a proper no compromise workhorse, I'm quite interested to see what their sales strategy will be.

    They have set themselves a tough task.
    Very much, very ambitious. I really hope they make it.

    I love the transparent way they develop things, showing each stage and giving insight into their thinking and choices.

    As opposed to LR's secrecy over the new defender: the careful leaking of the pics to the media, the hype they created. The 'we know better attitude', like, 'trust us, we know what's good for you'.

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