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Thread: Is this it?

  1. #3281
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    I applaud your resolve and there will be many like you, but you will be the minority.

    Unfortunately the marketing strategy of Land Rover, the press photos and the pre launch add campaign speak for itself, also the fact that they have added all this content, or fad to it, has made it more expensive than what it could have been.. And this "content" or gimmicks that were added, was to attract the hipsters.

    My comment stands and will be proven correct.
    The price, the accessories and the trim levels will prove me right.
    And those low profile tyres....

    PS: I love the way your post was liked by someone who drives the biggest fashion accessory out there...
    Now I suspect you may just be trolling. If you actually knew what a hipster was you would know that they are far more likely to be buying a beat up old Series Land Rover than they would the new Defender.

    I don't deny there is group of people that will buy the new Defender and never take it offroad. The 22" tyre option speaks to that. But that was also true of the old Defender. Plenty of them cruising around bought by posers who like the image.

    If the posers buying those cars help make it possible for LR to build an extremely capable offroad vehicle in a way that makes economic sense then I am all for it. A few posers out there wont make any difference to the utility I will get from my vehicle.
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  2. #3282
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMark View Post
    Now I suspect you may just be trolling. If you actually knew what a hipster was you would know that they are far more likely to be buying a beat up old Series Land Rover than they would the new Defender.

    I don't deny there is group of people that will buy the new Defender and never take it offroad. The 22" tyre option speaks to that. But that was also true of the old Defender. Plenty of them cruising around bought by posers who like the image.

    If the posers buying those cars help make it possible for LR to build an extremely capable offroad vehicle in a way that makes economic sense then I am all for it. A few posers out there wont make any difference to the utility I will get from my vehicle.
    The one problem with posers are that they demand those gimmicks, they demand FAD, and those gimmicks and fad, cost money. Imagine this Defender, as you would want it, a comfortable, capable overlander that you could use for travelling all over our country and its neighbors with. A vehicle that is still modern, innovative distinctively Land Rover, and definitely with that wonderful suspension.... But CHEAPER, and with less fad... A Defender is supposed to have LESS fad than other Land Rover products. NOT MORE... Why can people not see that?
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  3. #3283
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    The one problem with posers are that they demand those gimmicks, they demand FAD, and those gimmicks and fad, cost money. Imagine this Defender, as you would want it, a comfortable, capable overlander that you could use for travelling all over our country and its neighbors with. A vehicle that is still modern, innovative distinctively Land Rover, and definitely with that wonderful suspension.... But CHEAPER, and with less fad... A Defender is supposed to have LESS fad than other Land Rover products. NOT MORE... Why can people not see that?
    Just out of interest - using this build as an example: https://build.landrover/131C0361

    What would you consider gimmicks / FADs?
    2015 Land Rover Defender 110 (Sadly sold )
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  4. #3284
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMark View Post
    Just out of interest - using this build as an example: https://build.landrover/131C0361

    What would you consider gimmicks / FADs?
    It would be easier if you just tell us what are not
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  5. #3285
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    It would be easier if you just tell us what are not
    That is a cop out. I don't consider any of the specs on that build a gimmick.

    Why do I get the feeling that if the price of that build was R750,000 instead of R1.1m you wouldn't think any of it was a gimmick either?
    Last edited by PaulMark; 2020/07/07 at 12:00 PM. Reason: Typos
    2015 Land Rover Defender 110 (Sadly sold )
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMark View Post
    That is a cop out. I don't consider any of the specs on that spec a gimmick.

    Why do I get the feeling that if the price of that build was R750,000 instead of R1.1m you wouldn't think any of it was a gimmick either?
    Not a copout, I just cannot open the link.
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  7. #3287
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    This sounds so much like the Lancia history.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fontuin View Post
    D3 and D4 hasn't exactly covered itself in glory.

    Didn't you own a D3, and now you drive an archaic solid axle ox-wagon?

    I was also a fan of the D3, until we owned one, I was very quickly cured of Land Rover after that, no new Land Rover ever again. And to top it all off, it was pretty average off-road and not suited to it all.

    Those who warned me against buying it in those days were correct.

    Many have the same story.

    The reality is that Land Rover has an incredibly poor reputation for dependability and it's because they only build unnecessarily complex, expensive vehicles.

    There is no reason to believe that this new reiteration of the D4 will be any different.
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  8. #3288
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    Default Is this it?

    Eventually - I think there are a few items on these lists that I would describe as gimmicky and if they took some of it out, it would be a) cheaper, b) more reliable, c) a Defender . Now stop trying to garner the opinion that I am complaining because I cannot afford it (I prom ice you I can) and admit that what I am saying, is making sense. But you wont... because you have bought one BTW: I love your blog


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    Last edited by Hedgehog; 2020/07/07 at 12:20 PM.
    _______________________________________
    Andrew van Staden
    With a mild case of "Camping Personality Disorder" or CPD

    I drive a five cylinder bakkie and tow an army inspired van.

  9. #3289
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    The one problem with posers are that they demand those gimmicks, they demand FAD, and those gimmicks and fad, cost money. Imagine this Defender, as you would want it, a comfortable, capable overlander that you could use for travelling all over our country and its neighbors with. A vehicle that is still modern, innovative distinctively Land Rover, and definitely with that wonderful suspension.... But CHEAPER, and with less fad... A Defender is supposed to have LESS fad than other Land Rover products. NOT MORE... Why can people not see that?
    True.

    Should've lost air suspension at least for entry models, with Prado/fortuner-like ground clearance. Kinda like Prado TX.

    But hey, works for many it seems. I hope they sell as JLR expects...

  10. #3290
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by byaru1 View Post
    True.

    Should've lost air suspension at least for entry models, with Prado/fortuner-like ground clearance. Kinda like Prado TX.

    But hey, works for many it seems. I hope they sell as JLR expects...
    The 90 comes standard with coils. Apparently the 110 will also be available with coils at a later date.
    2015 Land Rover Defender 110 (Sadly sold )
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  11. #3291
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    Eventually - I think there are a few items on these lists that I would describe as gimmicky and if they took some of it out, it would be a) cheaper, b) more reliable, c) a Defender . Now stop trying to garner the opinion that I am complaining because I cannot afford it (I prom ice you I can) and admit that what I am saying, is making sense. But you wont... because you have bought one


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    Many of those items are considered standard on a modern passenger vehicle but I take your point, they're not strictly necessary on a dedicated offroader. Hopefully LRSA bring in the basic spec "Hardtop" version which may be closer to your requirements. If they can price it decently I think there is definitely a market in SA for it.
    2015 Land Rover Defender 110 (Sadly sold )
    2020 Land Rover Defender 110 (On order )
    Website: www.africanrover.co.za
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  13. #3292
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMark View Post
    Many of those items are considered standard on a modern passenger vehicle but I take your point, they're not strictly necessary on a dedicated offroader. Hopefully LRSA bring in the basic spec "Hardtop" version which may be closer to your requirements. If they can price it decently I think there is definitely a market in SA for it.
    We agree
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  15. #3293
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMark View Post
    The 90 comes standard with coils. Apparently the 110 will also be available with coils at a later date.
    True, but it's not sprung high enough. Reminds me of the D4 XS. Pointless coils if sprung too low. Rather get air suspension..

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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fontuin View Post
    D3 and D4 hasn't exactly covered itself in glory.

    Didn't you own a D3, and now you drive an archaic solid axle ox-wagon?
    I am not talking about anything other than the comments before launch, that it will would never be used for off-road, and look now

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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMark View Post
    Shew - so much stereotyping in one statement! I have bought one and I don't classify myself as any of the people you are describing above.

    I am in the bush at least once a month and undertake at least one overlanding trip per year. I sold my fully kitted 2015 Puma to in order to buy this one and it was not an easy decision for me. I loved my Puma but it was an irrational love. The Puma was slow and noisy, the driving position uncomfortable for front passengers and terrible for rear passengers. If you sat in the back and tried to look out the window for game you would be staring straight into the panel between the door window and the alpine window. No matter how much I tried to prevent it, the Puma would suck in dust like an electrolux and it became a daily routine to wipe down the interior while on a trip. Still I loved it

    But ultimately rationality won out. I will be able to use my new Defender as daily driver while at the same time it will be fully capable of doing what I need it to do on all the overlanding trips I plan to use it for and it will be a LOT more comfortable!

    Long story short maybe you should stick to debating the merits of the vehicle based purely on what it is and not on what you assume the people motivations are for buying it are.
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  18. #3296
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMark View Post
    Shew - so much stereotyping in one statement! I have bought one and I don't classify myself as any of the people you are describing above.

    I am in the bush at least once a month and undertake at least one overlanding trip per year. I sold my fully kitted 2015 Puma to in order to buy this one and it was not an easy decision for me. I loved my Puma but it was an irrational love. The Puma was slow and noisy, the driving position uncomfortable for front passengers and terrible for rear passengers. If you sat in the back and tried to look out the window for game you would be staring straight into the panel between the door window and the alpine window. No matter how much I tried to prevent it, the Puma would suck in dust like an electrolux and it became a daily routine to wipe down the interior while on a trip. Still I loved it

    But ultimately rationality won out. I will be able to use my new Defender as daily driver while at the same time it will be fully capable of doing what I need it to do on all the overlanding trips I plan to use it for and it will be a LOT more comfortable!

    Long story short maybe you should stick to debating the merits of the vehicle based purely on what it is and not on what you assume the people motivations are for buying it are.
    I'm glad you posted this because I've always been curious as to why someone would replace their old Defender with the New one. Considering they are so completely different.

    Why did you punish yourself by continuing to drive the Puma?

    If a vehicle such as the New Defender was what you were after in the first place. Why didn't you just buy one of the many other alternatives on the market?
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  19. #3297
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fontuin View Post
    I'm glad you posted this because I've always been curious as to why someone would replace their old Defender with the New one. Considering they are so completely different.

    Why did you punish yourself by continuing to drive the Puma?

    If a vehicle such as the New Defender was what you were after in the first place. Why didn't you just buy one of the many other alternatives on the market?
    Fair question - I never felt like I was punishing myself but then again I think many Defender owners are suckers for punishment. The fact is if I could afford to keep both I would have because - as you say - they are very different vehicles. But for my use case the new Defender makes more sense. Hopefully post-Covid I'll be using it for the daily commute. I travel on a regular basis to the Kruger (at least I did pre-Covid) - often only for the weekend. For those long journeys on tar the new Defender is the obvious choice.

    For the annual overland trip - maybe I'm wrong but I don't believe having the new one will prevent me from doing any of the kind of overlanding I've enjoyed in the past? I might not be so gung ho about drilling holes in the new one as I was with the old, but I plan to kit it out in much the same way as my old Defender was.

    As to why Land Rover and not one of the perfectly good alternatives? There is no logical answer to that question other than you pick a side and you stick to it
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  20. #3298
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulMark View Post
    I travel on a regular basis to the Kruger (at least I did pre-Covid) - often only for the weekend. For those long journeys on tar the new Defender is the obvious choice.

    For the annual overland trip - maybe I'm wrong but I don't believe having the new one will prevent me from doing any of the kind of over-landing I've enjoyed in the past? ...
    The New Defender is built for this, so other than the price, it makes perfect sense.

    Still not sure why you were driving the old one?

    Maybe I'm not woke enough to get it?
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Reading through the comments and the utter useless arguments with the intent of going absolutely nowhere, I've realized again us humans are really a funny species.

    Believe it or not, but the new Defender, the Grenadier, the Disco 4, the Cruiser, the ........ will all be fantastic vehicles for the person that bought it. I'm not very much of a competitive person and can only say that my D4 has taken me to heaps of rough places and so did my Defender. I can't remember one camelthorn tree, one African person, one elephant, one river crossing, one rooftoptent nor one tire that discriminated against the level of electronics my vehicle had. This apparent harsh Africa doesn't give a [email protected] about what your drive - as long as you know the capabilities, limitations and have adequate mitigations in place.

    Having moved from a couple of Defenders to a Disco 4, I can totally understand the hesitance towards anything modern and not fitting the pretty African sunset picture. Trust me, you'll get over it and take similar nice sunset pictures. Even in a new Defender.
    Disclaimer - All my posts on this forum is without prejudice, is based on my fair assumptions or perceptions, is in no way intended to cause harm to anyone and is acted upon at your own discretion.

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  23. #3300
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    Default Re: Is this it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fontuin View Post
    I'm glad you posted this because I've always been curious as to why someone would replace their old Defender with the New one. Considering they are so completely different.

    Why did you punish yourself by continuing to drive the Puma?

    If a vehicle such as the New Defender was what you were after in the first place. Why didn't you just buy one of the many other alternatives on the market?
    Well you can't very well go back on all those countless arguments around the campfire explaining why it is the best 4x4xfar !

    Sorta like if that's your story, you have to stick to it!

    And then there's all the "Defending" those Land Rover jokes...

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