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  1. #1061
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Karol View Post
    I don’t know about the Aussies, but i’m sure those white Saffas that are positive about him might be for how he shut up the urgency of Cyrils EWC program with a tweet.

    be sure if Tump loses in 2020 and a liberal takes over, Accelerating EWC will be priority no1 on the ANC agenda without having to contend with any threat from USA
    The USA gives a rats #rse about South Africa as they did about Zimbabwe. Don’t kid yourself that Trump is going to do anything, or that CR was influenced. CR sold the EFF a dummy and they fell for it.

    Sigh .... pointless thread, never the twain shall meet. I’m actually being mocked by other forum members for coming back here. He’s right ...
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungets Tuft View Post
    The USA gives a rats #rse about South Africa as they did about Zimbabwe. Don’t kid yourself that Trump is going to do anything ...
    I have to agree with you wholeheartedly.

    But, somehow the political rightwing public in South Africa has an infatuation with Donald Trump, seeing him as their “Messiah” who will save them from their perceived oppression.

    While hanging on to an imaginary thread of hope that Trump will bring redemption. They refuse to accept Trump is an incompetent moron and will debunk any critique of their saviour.
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  4. #1063
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Leigh View Post
    RR. What then are your comments on the amount of immigrants Trump is sending back vs. Obama.
    I have never had a problem with the enforcement of the law if that's all it is you seem to be surprised that Obama enforced the law, but then again the great Trump has told us that the Dems are soft on immigration so it must be true. Nonetheless your graph confirms what other statistics show namely that illegal immigration has actually declined. This shows once again shows how Trump makes a mountain out of a molehill so that he can appear to solve it and if you recall he was actually threatening to bus the immigration applicants to the sanctuary cities so that the processing and accommodation became their problem. This goes against your view that he he is trying to stop the problem at the border, personally I think he needs this to be big issue for him to show his base that he and only he can deal with it.

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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Karol View Post
    I don’t know about the Aussies, but i’m sure those white Saffas that are positive about him might be for how he shut up the urgency of Cyrils EWC program with a tweet.

    be sure if Tump loses in 2020 and a liberal takes over, Accelerating EWC will be priority no1 on the ANC agenda without having to contend with any threat from USA
    If only you were correct but as far as I can see EWC is still very much on the table, I think you are giving Trump far too much credit.

    https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...phosa-20190626

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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungets Tuft View Post
    The USA gives a rats #rse about South Africa as they did about Zimbabwe. Don’t kid yourself that Trump is going to do anything, or that CR was influenced. CR sold the EFF a dummy and they fell for it.

    Sigh .... pointless thread, never the twain shall meet. I’m actually being mocked by other forum members for coming back here. He’s right ...
    Didn't the USA impose and still do carry sanctions on Zimbabwe because of there land reform?

    Not not saying Trump will send the cavalry, but you can bet your bottom dollar that sanctions will be imposed.

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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by River Rat View Post
    If only you were correct but as far as I can see EWC is still very much on the table, I think you are giving Trump far too much credit.

    https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...phosa-20190626
    Its being down played now, Cyril distancing his goverment from nationalising all land, Trump was vocal and did not mince is words or leave a grey area as to his position on EWC.

    What I saying is a long as Trump is in office, EWC will be discussed and mulled on below the radar but the won't implement. As soon as he is out there will be action.

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  9. #1067
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Karol View Post
    Its being down played now, Cyril distancing his goverment from nationalising all land, Trump was vocal and did not mince is words or leave a grey area as to his position on EWC.

    What I saying is a long as Trump is in office, EWC will be discussed and mulled on below the radar but the won't implement. As soon as he is out there will be action.
    We are reading the signs very differently, Cyril's stance has always been the same despite Trump's tweets. The debate for me is whether the centre of the ANC will acquiesce to the Radical Economic Transformation crowd or not. I can't see Trump interfering if EWC is debated and voted on through a proper parliamentary process and if he did how does this play out with his America First mantra?

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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Karol View Post
    Didn't the USA impose and still do carry sanctions on Zimbabwe because of there land reform?

    Not not saying Trump will send the cavalry, but you can bet your bottom dollar that sanctions will be imposed.
    Those sanctions didn't exactly help the citizens of Zimbabwe, did they? The sanctions were meant to force the Zim government to stop, so that they can partake in global trade again, however the only thing that ended up happening was that many citizens fled while they could, those that remained behind became insanely poor, and the leaders became insanely rich. The leaders of ZanuPF didn't care about trade with the "evil west". Do you think the US imposing sanctions will be different here? I personally doubt it.
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Karol View Post
    Didn't the USA impose and still do carry sanctions on Zimbabwe because of there land reform?

    Not not saying Trump will send the cavalry, but you can bet your bottom dollar that sanctions will be imposed.
    No they won’t. We’re too strategically important. He’ll huff and puff whenever he needs a dead cat to throw on the table, but nothing else
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Things that make you go hmmmmmm.......
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    And you strike me as being smugly patronising
    he sounds a lot like Eusebius Mckaiser
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by River Rat View Post
    Why, is it because you are challenged by the facts? Perhaps this will help clear this up https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-liberal-surge
    Snide comment aside - no, its because the US's political center (more in line with my spectrum) does not coincide with most of the EU's center - the US center is further to the right of the EU center. US Democrats/liberals can likely be viewed as conservative leaning in the EU. So what you see as center in the EU is most likely seen as left or strong left leaning in the US.
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    The problem with Socialism is that in order for the government to give to the have-nots, they need to take from the haves. It assumes a paternalistic role based on two assumptions, the first being a ''morality'' and the second being that individuals are incapable of taking responsibility for their own lives.

    Socialism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to society, that the only justification of his existence is his service to society, and that society may dispose of him in any way it pleases for the sake of whatever it deems to be its own tribal, collective good.

    When you consider socialism, do not fool yourself about its nature. Remember that there is no such dichotomy as “human rights” versus “property rights.” No human rights can exist without property rights. Since material goods are produced by the mind and effort of individual men, and are needed to sustain their lives, if the producer does not own the result of his effort, he does not own his life. To deny property rights means to turn men into property owned by the state. Whoever claims the “right” to “redistribute” the wealth produced by others is claiming the “right” to treat human beings as chattel.

    Communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide.

    “To be a socialist,” says Goebbels, “is to submit the I to the thou; socialism is sacrificing the individual to the whole.”

    On another thread, the Boris thread, you’ve made some references to intellect. What woild your opinion be of the intellect of someone like .... um ... Ayn Rand for instance. I’d guess quite high, since you’ve been plagiarizing her writing in your threads. Perhaps at least credit her thoughts when you copy and paste them ... yes?
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungets Tuft View Post
    On another thread, the Boris thread, you’ve made some references to intellect. What woild your opinion be of the intellect of someone like .... um ... Ayn Rand for instance. I’d guess quite high, since you’ve been plagiarizing her writing in your threads. Perhaps at least credit her thoughts when you copy and paste them ... yes?
    Well spotted.
    Is that from Atlas Shrugged?

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    Default Re: Trump...

    Oh...Click image for larger version. 

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    "Everything has its limit - iron ore cannot be educated into gold."




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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by RoelfleRoux View Post
    Well spotted.
    Is that from Atlas Shrugged?
    Aynrandlexicon. She has pretty much a cult following, Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead were two widely published works but there’s a pile
    of other stuff. I’ve read it a lot, mainly as a kind of “ticking off” exercise but her statements on socialism are pretty distinct. The “murder vs suicide” is a signature statement. I’m reading to try to improve my intellect so I can keep up, gnome sane?
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Tony Weaver

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  24. #1078
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by RoelfleRoux View Post
    Well spotted.
    Is that from Atlas Shrugged?
    From the AR Lexicon, a collection of writings
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  25. #1079
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    Default Re: Trump...

    For the record, as pointed out by Gungets Tuft:

    The problem with Socialism is that in order for the government to give to the have-nots, they need to take from the haves. It assumes a paternalistic role based on two assumptions, the first being a ''morality'' and the second being that individuals are incapable of taking responsibility for their own lives.

    Socialism is the doctrine that man has no right to exist for his own sake, that his life and his work do not belong to him, but belong to society, that the only justification of his existence is his service to society, and that society may dispose of him in any way it pleases for the sake of whatever it deems to be its own tribal, collective good.

    When you consider socialism, do not fool yourself about its nature. Remember that there is no such dichotomy as “human rights” versus “property rights.” No human rights can exist without property rights. Since material goods are produced by the mind and effort of individual men, and are needed to sustain their lives, if the producer does not own the result of his effort, he does not own his life. To deny property rights means to turn men into property owned by the state. Whoever claims the “right” to “redistribute” the wealth produced by others is claiming the “right” to treat human beings as chattel.

    Communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide.

    “To be a socialist,” says Goebbels, “is to submit the I to the thou; socialism is sacrificing the individual to the whole.”

    The Ayn Rand Lexicon: Objectivism from A - Z. Compiled from Ayn Rand's statements on some 400 topics in philosophy, economics, psychology and history
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  27. #1080
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    Default Re: Trump...

    For a moment lets forget Trump and look at the process.

    I listened to probably 80% of the Mueller hearing yesterday. The Dem's are in a worse place than when they started the hearing. The appear to have reached bedrock and are still digging. They still want to maintain the narrative, "this is not the end, this is only the beginning". Mueller did not even bother to do a conflict check which allowed the inclusion of partisan people to his team. I do feel for Mueller, by all accounts he is a fine individual, who was not in charge of the investigation, this was clear from his apparent lack of understanding of the facts in the report, but I believe was placed there for credibility purposes. That failed, and what should have been his swansong has become his nightmare. The Dem's should never have had the hearing and should never have called him, it has damaged the party IMO, even insiders in the party are admitting defeat in the hearing.

    I iterate my opinion, I believe this is a very poor strategy. It is almost like the Dem's have conceded that they cannot beat Trump in 2020 so the only way is to remove him from office and to fight against Pence. The problem is that he will not be impeached, like it or not, so what then will the election strategy be? All this time and effort on the impeachment drive robs the election drive.

    Someone explained it very well, there are two standards that have been set. The first is the political standard which touts the numerous transgressions and allows a prosecutor to "not exonerate" someone based on no charges having being presented. The second one is the legal standard, in which the every American citizen is under a blanket of innocence, this facts are evaluated for their substance and their ability to stand in a court of law, the probability of success determines the legal process. Should charges be brought and a not guilty verdict returned, then said individual is not "exonerated" they are found to be not guilty. Should a guilty verdict be returned then the blanket of innocence removed.

    The standard set for the hearing was the political standard.
    Last edited by Andrew Leigh; 2019/07/25 at 10:39 AM.

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