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Thread: Trump...

  1. #1021
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Leigh View Post
    I will ignore the racial undertone that as a white I can never understand a black perspective, I don't fall for race baiting. Clearly race is more of an issue to you than it is me. To make the assumption that I am "never capable of understanding" is both false and insulting, it clearly illustrates how judgmental the left is.



    When you are going to attack the spelling of anyone, it would be wise to ensure that the grammar an punctuation used in such an attack is beyond reproach. The cheap shot failed.



    Please read and digest before taking to the keyboard. As a point of discussion, opposition politics as you call it, I mentioned that "many" people were of an opinion. I never said I agreed with these people, I never said "many of us". I was pointing out that this may well have been a well thought out tactic by the right to unsettle the left. I see there are many texts from the left conceding that Trump won this one, yes you will find it hard to believe. This point had nothing to do with racism but tactics. The tactic to divide the Dem caucus buy forcing the Dem's to confront the fractious fab four who continue to undermine the party. The damage being done to the Dem's will be evident in the elections.



    Handling the "how" is irrelevant, 137 Dem's voted NOT to impeach, case closed one would think. Yet the call's to impeach will continue unabated despite overwhelming evidence that many Dem's, totally opposed to Trump's politic's, simply cannot see their way clear to impeach. These people are more in the know than what we are.

    So perhaps the time has come for the Dem's to stop wasting time on a motion that will not be carried, clean up their own house, get united and come up with a strategy that can defeat Trump instead of the incessant whining and negative politics. Let's see if they can convince the American public to vote Trump out, current tactics are not working and they need a change of plan IMO. To spend 2020 to 2024 with the same "we were robbed" and "impeach" rhetoric would be more that anyone could bear.

    So I state again; I neither hate Trump nor do I love the Dem's, conversely, I neither love Trump nor hate the Dem's. I have no partisan hat in this one.
    On the language point - I am well within my rights to attack someone's stupidity, when he himself calls himself the world's biggest genius. Not a cheap shot.

    As to your second point on reading before typing. Point taken, I retract. I do tend to get excited.

    As to your point about impeaching - you are missing one critical point - the Dems are more concerned about the impact of impeachment, and the worry that he may not be criminally prosecuted if he is impeached. Pelosi doesn't want him impeached, she wants him behind bars.

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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kifaru View Post
    That's the typical fear-mongering rhetoric the Trumpians love. Oh, and by the way, Trump's views are not capitalist, they are Fascist.

    Your first points is nonsense for the way it ends. Society is not so easily pigeonholed. Capitalism creates wealth, but also creates inequality, which needs to be catered for by using socialist principles.

    Your second paragraph is my first point - keep on drumming that drum, you will have Trump follows drooling at your feet.

    As to the property rights etc - you don't have a right to the tax you have paid after it sits in the fiscus.
    Inequality is created at an individual level, capitalism rewards the individual effort while socialism punishes the individual effort with taxes in order to reward the individuals in the group who dont make the effort.

    I do have the right to pay as little tax as I need to unless that is taken away from me and I also have the right to change the government to one that suits me better.

    This is where the Trump detractors miss the point by focusing on the man and not the game. The Average US Joe has an innate fear of socialism and taxation particularly any Federal laws and taxes. Their whole nation was built on a tax revolt so its ingrained. Whether it is a real fear or fear mongering, it speaks to the Average Joe.
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kifaru View Post

    Secondly, South Africa does not have racist laws or policies (racist laws are laws that exist on the basis of the assertion that one race is superior to another, by virtue of skin colour). At all. We did have, pre 94. Today the legislation and regulation is designed to remedy the idiocy of the laws pre 94. The seeds "we" sow, etc. Whether you agree with it or not, is irrelevant, the fact is it looks to solve for generations of suffering (many multiples of generations, I can assure you). There is no such thing as "reverse racism" - that is an ignorant view. White South Africans need to wake up to the fact that generations were destroyed by a codified set of rules and laws.

    The laws that we as whites interpret as racist are those that are directly discriminating against us now, although they are justified under Section 36 of the Bill of Rights. But to say someone that has absolutely nothing to do with the generations of suffering you exclaim now needs to "reap what we sowed" is ridiculous and based on a rather large generalization. Did all white people that were never part of the apartheid regime inherit a benefit? I would argue no... (I can give examples) Yet they are the ones that are "reaping" the most of things they did not sow... Do you want to hand me a tissue?
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  6. #1024
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kifaru View Post
    I didn't say it comes from the east, it comes from everywhere. But innovation is quite often born out of the need to innovate. Tariffs remove the need (or purport to - Trump's tariff fight will end up with everyone losing).
    I dont agree, it will end up possibly with higher prices for US consumers but it wont dampen their innovation.
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    Default Re: Trump...

    I was about to answer but I think Estee said it better than I could.

    To the heart of the debate (for me at least), is the opposing forces of collectivism vs. individualism. I agree that the solution lies somewhere in the middle. The problem is that, just like in South Africa, there is a lack of will between the opposing sides to find common ground.

    One point that I strongly agree with is that only an idiot will want to buy a bump stock. Not because it makes a semi-auto more deadly but because it is a piece of crap equipment.
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kifaru View Post
    Nope. Not at all. Firstly, Craig (who I am assuming is white, which I agree is a dangerous assumption, but let's assume I am correct) and I are both white, so racism doesn't apply.

    Secondly, South Africa does not have racist laws or policies (racist laws are laws that exist on the basis of the assertion that one race is superior to another, by virtue of skin colour). At all. We did have, pre 94. Today the legislation and regulation is designed to remedy the idiocy of the laws pre 94. The seeds "we" sow, etc. Whether you agree with it or not, is irrelevant, the fact is it looks to solve for generations of suffering (many multiples of generations, I can assure you). There is no such thing as "reverse racism" - that is an ignorant view. White South Africans need to wake up to the fact that generations were destroyed by a codified set of rules and laws. The fact that we are now, in this fledgling democracy, feeling the pain of this remedy is something we have to accept. Of course, this is not easy, its very personal, and can be painful, but that's life.

    Back to the point: Trump is racist, and he is stoking the conservative fire around the world, and is unhealthy for the world's psyche and general well-being.
    How do you come to this conclusion, "South Africa does not have racist laws or policies"?

    I cannot take anything you say seriously after that statement. I can not even suggest typing b-bbee into your browser, you are more deluded than I can imagine.

    That statement is something the majority party can sell to their voters, not a statement you can get away with on the forum. You are not trying to convince Zuma supporters here.
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  10. #1027
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Leigh View Post
    Because he was a patriot that loved America for all it's warts. That is one of Trumps criteria for an American, USA first.
    So are you suggesting that these four women of colour are not patriots because they disagree with the construct of American society in so far as it affects their constituents? Or because they disagree with the Democrats voting for the funding to sort out the legal immigration crisis that Trump created, because they wanted greater reforms to the immigration process? Or are they not patriots because they disagree with Trump as John McCain did? None of these issues warrant his attacks so why did he do it to them and not McCain? Simple he is a racist and he speaks directly to his base which is starting look more and more like a bunch of white supremacists. I looked at the crowd standing behind him in his last rally and I struggle to find black or coloured faces, I am sure that there are some but it's a lot less than compared to 2016. Trump knows this and I see his campaign is trying a yarn that says Trump tried to intervene when they started chanting "send her back". When you see the vitriol coming from his rallys and from his supporters this is not America first but it looks like white America first, dare I use the word facism?

    For me, Trump is not a racist because of his tweet to these four women, but his birther comments on Obama, his attack on Khizur Khan the father of a slain American war hero, his muslim ban, his s###hole country comments, the son of a b###thes for the protesting black NFL players, the comments after Charlottesville and the fact that he treats white people differently prove that he is a racist. This man is creating more hatred in America than any President that went before him and his supporters seem to think that his actions are somehow designed to unite America. All he is uniting is the white right.

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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by River Rat View Post
    So are you suggesting that these four women of colour are not patriots because they disagree with the construct of American society in so far as it affects their constituents? Or because they disagree with the Democrats voting for the funding to sort out the legal immigration crisis that Trump created, because they wanted greater reforms to the immigration process? Or are they not patriots because they disagree with Trump as John McCain did? None of these issues warrant his attacks so why did he do it to them and not McCain? Simple he is a racist and he speaks directly to his base which is starting look more and more like a bunch of white supremacists. I looked at the crowd standing behind him in his last rally and I struggle to find black or coloured faces, I am sure that there are some but it's a lot less than compared to 2016. Trump knows this and I see his campaign is trying a yarn that says Trump tried to intervene when they started chanting "send her back". When you see the vitriol coming from his rallys and from his supporters this is not America first but it looks like white America first, dare I use the word facism?

    For me, Trump is not a racist because of his tweet to these four women, but his birther comments on Obama, his attack on Khizur Khan the father of a slain American war hero, his muslim ban, his s###hole country comments, the son of a b###thes for the protesting black NFL players, the comments after Charlottesville and the fact that he treats white people differently prove that he is a racist. This man is creating more hatred in America than any President that went before him and his supporters seem to think that his actions are somehow designed to unite America. All he is uniting is the white right.
    I think Chuck Shumer put it quite well:

    "President @realDonaldTrump whipped up a toxic brew of racism, xenophobia, nativism

    His crowd chanting ďsend her backĒ about a member of Congress & US citizen

    The way he appeals to the worst instincts of some people was despicableóeerily familiar to what happens in dictatorships."

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    Default Re: Trump...

    What really baffles me most is how the great nation of America could have allowed this mess to come to pass...... Out of all the brilliant people they had to chose from, they came up with another Clinton vs Trump. They kind of deserve the mess they're in.....

    And it looks like GOP will continue to support Trump, and Democrats? Who knows? Looks like another Biden run... Please please get your thinking caps on and get yourselves decent candidates, there must be hundreds of real intelligent leaders to choose from.

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    Default Re: Trump...

    All the hysterics, for what? Why dont they impeach him - its the right thing to do after all.... So they are not so serious about the impeachment, just the free TV time for the last two years. Bla bla bla


    Democratic majority led House of Representatives voted 332-95 not to impeach Trump.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hou...-impeach-trump
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by RiaanJ View Post
    What really baffles me most is how the great nation of America could have allowed this mess to come to pass...... Out of all the brilliant people they had to chose from, they came up with another Clinton vs Trump. They kind of deserve the mess they're in.....

    And it looks like GOP will continue to support Trump, and Democrats? Who knows? Looks like another Biden run... Please please get your thinking caps on and get yourselves decent candidates, there must be hundreds of real intelligent leaders to choose from.
    It's called balance - the pendulum swing too far left.
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  20. #1032
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by macjohnw View Post
    It's called balance - the pendulum swing too far left.
    Nope, don't believe so. More likely "politics" not as attractive a job as in the past. So the best people just not interested any more. And this applies across the whole political landscape. This will be really difficult to turn around

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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Estee View Post
    My feelings would be that if Trump said to a white Irishman to return to Ireland, no one would bat an eyelid. If he told a black Irishman to return to Ireland, everyone would claim he is racist. Even if both had made the same statement.
    And if he deported a pink unicorn to Scandinavia it wouldnít raise an eyebrow, but he hasnít, and wonít, so thatís just blowing smoke.
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by MarcR View Post
    Unlike the (now violent) snowflakes, he seems to be fixing problems... not just bitching and whining.

    Who is more of the stuff America is made of? Certainly not a socialist or communist leading America!

    The complainers keep on whining, but don't have answers.
    What has he fixed?
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungets Tuft View Post
    And if he deported a pink unicorn to Scandinavia it wouldnít raise an eyebrow, but he hasnít, and wonít, so thatís just blowing smoke.
    You are right, it would be the LGBT crowd ranting about him being a homophobe
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bex View Post
    I don't follow the logic. How is implying that they are not american being racist? It does not mention race at all.
    Because the microscopic dust mite that passes for his one functioning brain cell sees them as "refugees" simply by virtue of them being non-white.
    The man is too shallow to even conceptualise the notion that Black people can be and (shock, horror) actually ARE born in the US all the time.
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnoK View Post
    Because the microscopic dust mite that passes for his one functioning brain cell sees them as "refugees" simply by virtue of them being non-white.
    The man is too shallow to even conceptualise the notion that Black people can be and (shock, horror) actually ARE born in the US all the time.
    It's the same as when white people who are born in Africa ( sometimes been here for generations ) are told by the likes of Julius to go back where they came from.

    As I said before, I think that there is a lot in common between Donald and Julius, they share a nativist and racist view of humanity. They both love to whip up their crowds with racist chants and ridiculously narrow-minded statements.

    Once the affair with Kim is over , I reckon Julius with become Donald's new BFF.

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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gungets Tuft View Post
    What has he fixed?
    Everything.

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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by Richsav730 View Post
    Everything.
    Thats a Trump response. List 5 things heís fixed.
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    Default Re: Trump...

    Quote Originally Posted by tashtego9 View Post
    It's the same as when white people who are born in Africa ( sometimes been here for generations ) are told by the likes of Julius to go back where they came from.

    As I said before, I think that there is a lot in common between Donald and Julius, they share a nativist and racist view of humanity. They both love to whip up their crowds with racist chants and ridiculously narrow-minded statements.

    Once the affair with Kim is over , I reckon Julius with become Donald's new BFF.
    Boris Johnson. Boris and Trump might actually try to breed. In the event you e never seen anything worse than Deliverance ....
    Love your neighbour. Thatís about it, itíll be the world we want.

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