Roadholding - centre diff versus straight coupling. - Page 3




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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Roadholding - centre diff versus straight coupling.

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    If you are driving in a way that it slides too much or the esp is interfering constantly you are going too fast.

    It's all about experience. You need to play a bit and purposefully get into situations.

    Do this enough and you drive instinctively.

    There is no time to think about what to do in situations like that.

    Softroaders with AWD are actually the best gravellers in my experience.
    Quite so. One of the biggest killers are the last few kilometers of a journey.

    You travel 500km at 140km/h on tar to get to a resort/game farm/campsite...... The last 10km are dirt. You are tired, hungry, thirsty, excited, it's dusk, you don't know the road, you are still in 140km/h sensitized mode. 110km/s feels soooo slow.


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  2. #42
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    Default Re: Roadholding - centre diff versus straight coupling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    You travel 500km at 140km/h on tar to get to a resort/game farm/campsite...... The last 10km are dirt. You are tired, hungry, thirsty, excited, it's dusk, you don't know the road, you are still in 140km/h sensitized mode. 110km/s feels soooo slow.


    KAPOW.
    One of the reasons I never drive more than 100km/h unless Iím overtaking something.

    Yeah Iím and old slow git but Iím a relaxed old slow git.
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  3. #43
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    Default Re: Roadholding - centre diff versus straight coupling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Quite so. One of the biggest killers are the last few kilometers of a journey.

    You travel 500km at 140km/h on tar to get to a resort/game farm/campsite...... The last 10km are dirt. You are tired, hungry, thirsty, excited, it's dusk, you don't know the road, you are still in 140km/h sensitized mode. 110km/s feels soooo slow.


    KAPOW.
    Indeed, in our area the most serious accidents used to happen at a sharp bend in the road just 2km after it turns from tar to gravel. This is despite numerous signs posted to warn against the bend...

    After years of asking, the council has now installed a few huge "speed bumps" before the bend, to force people to slow down. The amount of complaints from people damaging their vehicles went up, but I can't remember when last there was a fatal accident on that one notorious corner.

  4. #44
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    Default Roadholding - centre diff versus straight coupling.

    The problem with gravel is it is straight, then it is not.

    It's easy to go fast, straight line speed is easy, drivers get over confident, go faster and faster. A corner comes up far too quickly AND the gravel is normally looser on a corner. and how's your father!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and if driving on a hard surface with little slip, with a locked centre diff or part-time 4x4 in 4x4, that's when the axial windup is released, causing more problems. if not expecting it.

    The has been rest said already in previous posts.

    The other problem is modern cars are so, so comfortable today, we don't realise what speeds we are doing. until the what it hits the fan.

    As said by somebody else, go and play. Years ago you could get into the canal by the M7, it is flat wide and at the right time of the year the bottom was covered in green slime, no sand - just slippery stuff to drive on and the sides sloped up in such away you could not damage your vehicle, great stuff.
    Last edited by K-9; 2018/09/23 at 08:07 PM.
    Current off-road vehicles: *** Great family accommodation.. see facebook and airbnb.. Mkulu Kei /Wild Wind Ranch
    * 1978 Land-Cruiser HJ40 DIESEL P/U "SHREK", BFG 31x10.5 muds.
    * 1994 Land-Cruiser J70 DIESEL P/U, my truck recovery vehicle. 15000 warn winch. And 3.5ton hand winch. Back full of appropriate sized recovery gear. BFG31x10.5 muds.

    * 2014 Land-Cruiser LX V8 76 DIESEL STATION WAGON, BFG's 285 all terrain.
    * 1988 HILUX TOYOTA 4x4 D/C. FOR SALE.
    * 2011 HILUX 4X4 P/U, BFG 31x10.5 all terrain.
    * 1999 PAJERO 3.5 V6 Mitsubishi (sorry not a Toyota), BFG 31x10.5 all terrain.
    * 2006 FORD ranger 2.5 diesel. 4x4, (what was I thinking, also not a Toyota!) I have a spare 5000 warn winch I might fit.

    * 4x4 trailer, 1987, BFG all terrain. *GSA 1200 BMW ADVENTURE [liquid cooled} 2018, the closest motorbike to a land cruiser. A Massey Fergusson 375 tractor. Not BFG's and not a 4x4.
    ^^1999 TOYOTA 4x4 HILUX 2700i D/C, SOLD TO MY SON.



  5. #45
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    Default Re: Roadholding - centre diff versus straight coupling.

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    If you are driving in a way that it slides too much or the esp is interfering constantly you are going too fast.

    It's all about experience. You need to play a bit and purposefully get into situations.

    Do this enough and you drive instinctively.

    There is no time to think about what to do in situations like that.

    Softroaders with AWD are actually the best gravellers in my experience.
    Agreed.To get the proper experience you actually need to push YOUR OWN boundries. And the problem with the newer generation of cars with all their electronics etc is actually preventing people from learning HOW to drive and instead rely on the electronics to save them.
    Renault Duster 1.5Dci 4WD

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  7. #46
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    Default Re: Roadholding - centre diff versus straight coupling.

    Quote Originally Posted by JuanB View Post
    Agreed.To get the proper experience you actually need to push YOUR OWN boundries. And the problem with the newer generation of cars with all their electronics etc is actually preventing people from learning HOW to drive and instead rely on the electronics to save them.
    Have to agree with you here!! I grew up on a farm and learnt to drive on gravel at a very young age. We had a big open area that was quite clayi. When it rained my dad used to take me in the bakkie and told me to drive and turn woth varying amounts of throttle so that i can feel how to correct it when it started sliding. On the wet clay the speeds were below 40 but it tought you proper handling skills. Especially doing it at night with no sight and landmarks, you had to rely on feeling.

    Up until today I still handle situations like I learned back then. Let you upper body shift easily from side to side, with your shoulders above the steering wheel you will automatically correct your slide with no deliberate input to start off with.

    The biggest problem that I see on gravel roads is people driving to fast all the way. You gotta slow down significantly for corners!! And of you don’t know the road and so much more in the dark you need to slow down significantly. On the road to the one windfarm I worked I used to drive at quite high speeds at a stage with the isuzu kb300 I had back then, sometimes 2x4 other times 4x4. Never had a close call but I always slowed right down to the appropriate speeds for the corners. One corner claimed 6 bakkies over the project. It was a 50-60km/h corner in an isuzu, less in a hilux. Not to be funny it was just a fact.
    In the same corner I was almost in an accident as a passenger in a car because of someone doing the exact opposite thing he should have done in a fwd car. Ended up doing 3 360s but staying uproght and in the road.

    coming back to electronics. I do find the esp in the amarok to be superb but even with Esp switched off it will still catch you before you can learn proper handling skills. In compensates so much and effective that I would see it hard to show someone the effects of under and over steering on a wet or loose surface.

    In the end of the day it makes the vehicle much safer as it reacts faster than most people would have or can.
    Have always felt more stable in the amarok in 4wd. Have never felt the windup that you’re talking about.

    But I must admit, I think without the electronics I can definitely not say for sure that the amarok handles way better than my 2007 kb300 dc 4x4 did, maybe a little. With abs being the only electronic aids that thing drove gravel absolutely amazing.

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  9. #47
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    Default Re: Roadholding - centre diff versus straight coupling.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Correctly interpreted the question is permanent 4x4 ( ie centre diff) vs a part time 4x4, in 4x4 mode ( ie straight coupling )

    Roadholding - in almost every possible circumstance that I can conceive centre diff wins hands down. Especially if you can lock the centre diff when you need to. (I am not aware of, or cant think right now, of a fulltime 4x4 that cant do that)

    In this regard older BitsOfSushis and XJ Series Cheeps with their SuperSelect type boxes where the best of two worlds. Every combination possible.

    Wranglers are HORRIBLE with a capitol H.
    I had an interesting experience on the Trans Baviaans a few weeks ago in the Patrol. It is part time 4x4 obviously with a transfer case, either in 4x4 or out, no in between as with a centre diff. How I would have loved my old Pajero again. What has happened is the parks board have cemented the worst sections of "road" This caused havok with the part time 4x4. I very obviously had 4x4 engaged as I was ascending and descending the mountains. You then come across a cement section with a really sharp bend ... part time 4x4 nightmare. It get's to the stage where I felt I had to stop and disengage 4x4 before I broke a half shaft, really bad wind up. Picture the scenario, see cement section, analyse cement section quickly in the headlights, do I or don't I ... Half way through you find a 120 degree cement bend, stop, disengage 4x4, round the bend, re-engage 4x4 plenty. What a blooming hassle, over and over again at midnight and beyond. The Pajero with it's Super Select or even a full time 4x4 with it's centre diff unlocked would have been much more at home.

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  10. #48
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    Default Re: Roadholding - centre diff versus straight coupling.

    This video explains the issue nicely. I just love the presentation style! Enjoy!
    *
    Youth is such a wonderful thing - what a pity it is being wasted on the young.

  11. #49
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    Default Re: Roadholding - centre diff versus straight coupling.

    Nice video: He states you must do your homework and know the vehicle before going to the dealership, to stop being nonsenseted. agreed.


    I have always said: It is CRITICAL that you know your 4x4 system before you drive it;;;; before you break it and have massive repair bills.


    The correct info for your vehicle to a (new) owner with a different vehicle with a different 4x4 system, can be lethal to him and or his vehicle.


    In other words: Good informative information given on this forum in good faith to a beginner (not knowing his 4x4 system or any system) can have huge negative consequences.

    That is why proper 4x4 training in your vehicle is critical.
    Current off-road vehicles: *** Great family accommodation.. see facebook and airbnb.. Mkulu Kei /Wild Wind Ranch
    * 1978 Land-Cruiser HJ40 DIESEL P/U "SHREK", BFG 31x10.5 muds.
    * 1994 Land-Cruiser J70 DIESEL P/U, my truck recovery vehicle. 15000 warn winch. And 3.5ton hand winch. Back full of appropriate sized recovery gear. BFG31x10.5 muds.

    * 2014 Land-Cruiser LX V8 76 DIESEL STATION WAGON, BFG's 285 all terrain.
    * 1988 HILUX TOYOTA 4x4 D/C. FOR SALE.
    * 2011 HILUX 4X4 P/U, BFG 31x10.5 all terrain.
    * 1999 PAJERO 3.5 V6 Mitsubishi (sorry not a Toyota), BFG 31x10.5 all terrain.
    * 2006 FORD ranger 2.5 diesel. 4x4, (what was I thinking, also not a Toyota!) I have a spare 5000 warn winch I might fit.

    * 4x4 trailer, 1987, BFG all terrain. *GSA 1200 BMW ADVENTURE [liquid cooled} 2018, the closest motorbike to a land cruiser. A Massey Fergusson 375 tractor. Not BFG's and not a 4x4.
    ^^1999 TOYOTA 4x4 HILUX 2700i D/C, SOLD TO MY SON.



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