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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    I have more usable space in the 76, than what I had in my 4.8 Patrol. Absolutely true!
    It still does not make it adequate.
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  2. #42
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    Quote Originally Posted by biltong View Post
    It still does not make it adequate.
    touché..
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  3. #43
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    Quote Originally Posted by stevan View Post
    Useless comparison. Why did they left the Pajero out.
    It is not suitable as an offroader as it is a softroader, wife is needed to keep the dash from falling down.
    Last edited by PierredW; 2018/07/13 at 01:16 PM.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    I have more usable space in the 76, than what I had in my 4.8 Patrol. Absolutely true!
    and a 110 Defender has even more

    I'm with Biltong: I'd rather buy an old 110 or 130 and iron out the little irritating issues for R100k and have an epic overlander.

    The Defender doesn't need much to make it perfect:

    - move the drivers seat inward 4 inches
    - change the steering column to suite
    - make it waterproof
    - give it a large lump of an old school turbo diesel
    - Upgraded axles and diffs
    - a pair of lockers
    - normal stuff like consoles and dashes
    - MOVE THE HAND BRAKE LEVER

    sorted!
    Last edited by jelo; 2018/07/13 at 01:12 PM. Reason: Forgot the stupid hand brake
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  5. #45
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    and a 110 Defender has even more

    I'm with Biltong: I'd rather buy an old 110 or 130 and iron out the little irritating issues for R100k and have an epic overlander.

    The Defender doesn't need much to make it perfect:

    - move the drivers seat inward 4 inches
    - change the steering column to suite
    - make it waterproof
    -
    - Upgraded axles and diffs
    - a pair of lockers
    -
    - MOVE THE HAND BRAKE LEVER

    sorted!
    All of those that you mentioned are almost impossible..

    Well... It wont be cheap...

    Making a defender waterproof IS... impossible
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  6. #46
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    An 11 ton truck is just stupid.

    An Iveco has the same wheel track as most standard 4x4s.

    Body is 2m wide compared to an LC70 @ 1.9m.

    Roof height of the Iveco is 2.6m, and the distance between the ladder chassis and cab roof height is 1.54m, so a camper body with a pop-top will easily give you 2m of headspace.

    A bog standard LC70 is 2m high without a lift, bigger tyres or a roofrack.

    WHAT IS THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT AND WIDTH LIMITATION for the stated national parks?
    The 11 ton truck is what some people like and some even more like the 6x6.

    I like the Iveco but it is larger and heavier than my 79 but a great vehicle and surely suitable for overlanding though I still prefer a bit smaller like my 79 which to me is the maximum weight and size limit.

    No idea about park standards, Tanzania Parks work on weight, a 2.1 ton 79 Cruiser pay more than a 1.9 ton Colt as an example. Been there with the Colt many moons ago.
    Last edited by PierredW; 2018/07/13 at 01:22 PM.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    All of those that you mentioned are almost impossible..

    Well... It wont be cheap...

    Making a defender waterproof IS... impossible
    no it isn't

    Only 4 places it leaks:

    - roof seal : remove roof, use proper Sykaflex and use proper bolts and captive nut brackets
    - vent rubber : plenty of tips on how to fix these
    - windscreen seal : as above
    - door seals : there is a nice door seal upgrade on the Interwebs somewhere

    Basically use some brainpower to see where Solihull cut corners.
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  8. #48
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    and a 110 Defender has even more

    I'm with Biltong: I'd rather buy an old 110 or 130 and iron out the little irritating issues for R100k and have an epic overlander.
    Not "even more"... It is in another galaxy. Compared to the D1 or a 76, it is just about a black hole.
    1999 Discovery 1, 300 TDi - "Tink Tanky"

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  9. #49
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    Quote Originally Posted by biltong View Post
    Not "even more"... It is in another galaxy. Compared to the D1 or a 76, it is just about a black hole.
    agreed

    I packed 2 x bow tents (3mx3m) plus cooler boxes and luggage into the back of mine and had space for a Weber, wood, and a few cases of Windhoek. If i didn't have the sliding drawers, I would packed in more. But I had a roofrack and the extra crap went up there......


    I think the D1 would have been full after the Weber and the coolbox and one case of Windhoek.
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  10. #50
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    Quote Originally Posted by Stan Weakley View Post
    In my travels I have come across a number of the truly amazing truck conversions, Iveco, Unimog and the like. I am not a great fan of these trucks. They provide comfort and durability and become a home on wheels.

    As an expedition vehicle they have their drawbacks. The most obvious is costs, both purchase price and running costs. Another is that because of their size and track breadth, there are many places they cannot comfortably get to because of narrow tracks and in fact some game reserves do not allow entry. They can be difficult to fit into some campsites and many will charge them very high fees, including entry to the very expensive East African National Parks.

    Their biggest drawback is when these develop mechanical problems in out of the way places. Not every bush mechanic can work on them and spares often have to be imported and flown in with great inconvenience, expense and delays. Even finding new tyres can be a mission.

    By definition as far as I am concerned, the best expedition vehicle is one that would prove the most convenient, the most durable but also be the simplest to sort out when the inevitable problems arise in out of the way and isolated places.
    I agree with you Stan. I dream of owning an overland unimog but after all my different trips, I prefer a vehicle and not a truck. It is cheaper and easier to handle. The ultimate overlander is a KISS vehicle. Keep it simple and the best example is Otto

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  11. #51
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    "Ultimate" has different meanings for different folks.

    Our ultimate was our Defender. It had everything, and could go anywhere, was small enough (under 3.5t) not to attract higher vehicle fees, fit through overgrown tracks, maintenance costs were very low and consumption good at around 8km/l.

    But, there was effort involved, as with most setups. RTT had to be opened (5min). Awning setup - 3min. Kitchen setup was quick. When it rains, a gazebo was handy. This was our great setup for many years, and served us well.

    A stiff back helped us chose a more comfortable solution. Our camper could be described as ultimate as well, even with restrictions. It is super comfortable and needs no setup. No packing is necessary except food and clothes before a trip. On the spur quick getaways on weekends are effortless. It's track is marginally wider than the average 1t 4x4s, and poses no problem with deep sandy 2 spoor tracks, and will go anywhere where the normal 4x4 will go. Consumption is worse than the Defender at 6km/l, but better than many other 1t 4x4s.

    With a tare of 4t, it does attract higher vehicle fees in eg Botswana. So to remain "ultimate" here needs deeper pockets. The weight also restricts certain routes where wooden bridges will not carry it's weight. The full height camper also restricts access to overgrown tracks. Campers with pop-up roofs solves this to a certain degree - cab height is 2.6m and width is a fraction over 2m.

    For us it is more "ultimate" than our previous Defender setup, even with the above sacrifices.

    Going for bigger trucks, like the Unimog, and then the bigger 4x4 Mercs and MANs, you have more sacrifices with size, weight and cost. But "ultimate" is increased in the comfort and space departments, and allows you to bring along non-essential nice to have comfort equipment.

    The Australians have quite a few variations in dual purpose Iveco vehicles. Flat decks are very popular there, and many have built great campers which bolt onto their flat deck, converting their work vehicle into a fully blown camper in minutes. The Iveco is popular because it has loads more space than your 1 tonners, and does not fall into the truck category of Unimogs and bigger. The other advantage in Australia is that one can drive vehicles up to 4.5t with a car licence. Unfortunately we need higher category licences, which is a concern reading some posts above.


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  13. #52
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    Quote Originally Posted by PierredW View Post
    Don't agree, if you do overlanding you want to see more of a country than the piece of land next to the main roads. Go to Botswana and won't see much of Chobe, Moremi etc, to Moz you can drive on tar to Pemba but can only visit very few beaches as it is sandtracks to them, go to Namibia, how much of Damaraland and the Kaokoveld can you see with a Tazz? So yes if you want to overland from point a to b you can in most cases use a platkar but hell, you miss al lot.

    The point I was making is that an 80 year old granny went from Cape Town to Italy, on her own with a Tazz, yes sure you won't be-able to go serious off-road in the Tazz I agree, so there will be things you may miss out on. But everything you mention above, can be done with any stock standard 4x4 off the showroom floor.


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  14. #53
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    Quote Originally Posted by stevan View Post
    Useless comparison. Why did they left the Pajero out.
    You are asking why.

    Firstly, it is an American Publication doing the comparison, and your Pajero is not sold there.

    Secondly, its belly is way too low to the ground to transverse undulated terrain, and a lift complicates things. Wheel articulation is particularly poor. It is a gravel-roader, not an off-roader.

    Thirdly, its plastic or tupperware falls off.

    Fourthly, look at their sales figures. It is difficult enough finding spares outside the main centres in South Africa, let alone in Africa. (Kuilsriver Mitsu has now also closed down)

    Lastly, The Prado would have been a better contender, but is also not regarded to be a truck.
    Last edited by Poen; 2018/07/15 at 11:03 AM.
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  15. #54
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    I quite like the original article, in the sense that it is consistent with what I have observed over the years.

    For comprehensive travel involving different countries and terrain the main thing for me is to use a vehicle that is used, available and well known in the countries you are visiting. Because of spares and the ability of local workshops/mechanics to work on it.

    For Africa it's a no brainer, LC in its various shapes and forms and Hilux.
    That's 'ultimate', meaning you minimise the risk of lengthy stops due to breakdowns or waiting for parts.

    Otherwise if you are willing to take some risks and not bothered about waiting for a part , anything will do.

    My only reservation is with the defender: overlanders who use defenders that I have come across, they were all quite handy with the spanner and carried a few spares .

    If you can't yourself work on a defender then I think better go for the tried and tested .

    Cheers

  16. #55
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    Quote Originally Posted by PierredW View Post
    I saw 2 in Angola. Both were on low beds, also one X5, also on a low bed. One Range Rover that was driving on tar in Lubango. Many 70 series Cruiser, some 100 series, Prados, lots of Hilux but very few non Toyota vehicles. Many taxi's as well but also Toyota. O yes, many small chinese motorbikes. So I guess it is your choice if you want to take one there.
    OK.
    Last edited by oradba69; 2018/07/16 at 07:31 AM. Reason: Decided against commenting about our recent trip.

  17. #56
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    For me my F250 with it's slide on Camper is a ultimate overlander.
    Had a Prado ,80 series cruiser and other 4x4 before.

  18. #57
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    I think the LC 78 is also a serious contender here.

    Meaning the Troopie, either with the 1HZ (no whistle) or the imported 24 Valve TDi.

    Spacious, very capable and that long wheelbase makes it a comfortable ride.
    "Everything You See, I Owe to Spaghetti" (Sophia Loren)

  19. #58
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    I'm not totally qualified to comment but I note a broadly similar trend with adventure motorcycles. No one bike can do it all; comfortably. If it is asphalt and gravel roads through Africa then a GS1200 is great. If it's van Zyl's Pass, West Coast sand and Dood's Akker then a KTM 500 may be the weapon of choice, sacrificing some comfort and load. The middle ground may be 600cc to 700cc bikes (Suzuki, KTM, Kawasaki etc).

    I've sort of done the comfort aspect with a 4x4 but only to roof top tent, shower, gas cooker and so on. I understand the desire to have a house on wheels but it will have obvious limitations. I now favour lighter and simpler, sacrificing some comfort.

    My guess. If you travel once a year for a month of adventure offroading, a 4x4 "bakkie" or SUV can do it; longer and further, a Land Cruiser or bigger may be needed. Based on what the experienced guide on a Namib dune trip said, the HiLux / Fortuner is becoming their back up vehicle of choice over the traditional Land Cruiser!

  20. #59
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    Default Re: Ultimate Overlander

    Quote Originally Posted by mudgrubber View Post
    I'm not totally qualified to comment but I note a broadly similar trend with adventure motorcycles. No one bike can do it all; comfortably. If it is asphalt and gravel roads through Africa then a GS1200 is great. If it's van Zyl's Pass, West Coast sand and Dood's Akker then a KTM 500 may be the weapon of choice, sacrificing some comfort and load. The middle ground may be 600cc to 700cc bikes (Suzuki, KTM, Kawasaki etc).

    I've sort of done the comfort aspect with a 4x4 but only to roof top tent, shower, gas cooker and so on. I understand the desire to have a house on wheels but it will have obvious limitations. I now favour lighter and simpler, sacrificing some comfort.

    My guess. If you travel once a year for a month of adventure offroading, a 4x4 "bakkie" or SUV can do it; longer and further, a Land Cruiser or bigger may be needed. Based on what the experienced guide on a Namib dune trip said, the HiLux / Fortuner is becoming their back up vehicle of choice over the traditional Land Cruiser!
    Interesting thoughts overall...

    Just know that sand is very different from other off-road surfaces.
    Here, small and light vehicles, on road tyres may outperform a bigger and heavier vehicle, such as a LC running aggressive rubber. Obviously, both vehicles will drop tyre pressures substantially on sand.

    On other off-road surfaces though, something like a LC will far outperform small and lighter vehicles that do not have high-clearance, low-range gearing, decent suspension, and high torque. Stronger more aggressive rubber really comes into its own in rocky terrain and mud.
    Obviously any smaller and lighter vehicle that does have all the above features will go well here too.
    Then, perhaps, the main differentiation is how robust the vehicle is: again perhaps some of the smaller and lighter vehicles really do have the same toughness, durability and longetivity, of a Toyota LC or Nissan Patrol...

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