Pretoria Plane Crash





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    Default Pretoria Plane Crash

    I'm hearing reports of 1 dead and 20 injuries?

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    Default Re: Pretoria Plane Crash

    https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...crash-20180710

    Yup, Wonderboom, chartered plane went down

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    Default Re: Pretoria Plane Crash

    Seems like engine failure on takeoff. Ouch...


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    Default Re: Scary!

    Ah merged. Neat.

    Engine failure on takeoff is any pilots nightmare. You don't have speed, you don't have altitude, you don't have power, so you simply can't fly.
    Last edited by Johan Slabbert; 2018/07/10 at 10:55 PM.

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    Default Re: Pretoria Plane Crash

    It would appear the aircraft was a Convair 340 belonging to a Dutch cargo company. It has just undergone a major rebuild and was supposed to be flown back to Holland.

    http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewt...673&p=20545905

    Sad when one of these historic workhorses gets destroyed.

    For our fellow plane spotters, there's a Convair on display at the Wijnlands Auto Museum on the N1 towards Paarl.

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    Default Re: Pretoria Plane Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanSlabbert View Post
    It would appear the aircraft was a Convair 340 belonging to a Dutch cargo company. It has just undergone a major rebuild and was supposed to be flown back to Holland.

    http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewt...673&p=20545905

    Sad when one of these historic workhorses gets destroyed.

    For our fellow plane spotters, there's a Convair on display at the Wijnlands Auto Museum on the N1 towards Paarl.
    Sad indeed, Johann, particularly when life is lost.

    The Convair at the Wijnlands Auto Museum is a Convair 580 with turboprops, ex Safair, then Court Helicopters and recently Titan.
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    Default Pretoria Plane Crash

    It was ex Rovos Rail, donated to a collector in the Netherlands. Had just been re-painted and about to be flown to Europe. Yesterday was a test flight of sorts. ZS-BRV
    Last edited by Kortgat; 2018/07/11 at 05:35 AM.
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    Default Re: Pretoria Plane Crash

    Luckily it didn't crash on the N1 highway otherwise who knows how many would be dead.
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    Default Re: Pretoria Plane Crash

    Was pretty close to N1, very lucky indeed.

    I drive Moloto road daily, on my way home went passed the crash site minutes after the crash, could not see the plane but only distant smoke, what pissed me off is that the crash site was accessible by a quiet road turning out of Moloto. That road was packed to a standstill by vehicles of nosy people trying to get to the crash site to have a look, ambulance struggled to get passed the blockade. Flippen people that can't mind their own business.
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    Default Re: Pretoria Plane Crash

    Very sad.
    I have the same bad luck.
    The moment a mechanic touches one of my vehicles somethings goes wrong immediately afterwards.
    Last edited by Damdan; 2018/07/11 at 09:46 AM.
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    Default Re: Pretoria Plane Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by staalwol View Post
    Was pretty close to N1, very lucky indeed.

    I drive Moloto road daily, on my way home went passed the crash site minutes after the crash, could not see the plane but only distant smoke, what pissed me off is that the crash site was accessible by a quiet road turning out of Moloto. That road was packed to a standstill by vehicles of nosy people trying to get to the crash site to have a look, ambulance struggled to get passed the blockade. Flippen people that can't mind their own business.
    A worst case scenario for any crash investigator is what happened here. Contaminated evidence and souvenir theft are a huge problem. With all the air crash investigation training I have done there is huge emphasis placed on accident scene preservation. You can work around disturbance done by emergency workers but when crucial things are moved, walked over or even taken as a souvenir, it can cause an incorrect conclusion to be made of the cause of the accident.
    With an engine failure on take off of everything but your commercial jets, its recommended that a forced landing is made while continuing on the heading the aircraft was on. More often than not a worse crash happens when the crew try to turn back to the airport.
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    Default Re: Pretoria Plane Crash

    I had a flight to Pietersburg in that aircraft a few years back when it still belonged to Rovos.
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    Default Re: Pretoria Plane Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul#25 View Post
    A worst case scenario for any crash investigator is what happened here. Contaminated evidence and souvenir theft are a huge problem. With all the air crash investigation training I have done there is huge emphasis placed on accident scene preservation. You can work around disturbance done by emergency workers but when crucial things are moved, walked over or even taken as a souvenir, it can cause an incorrect conclusion to be made of the cause of the accident.
    With an engine failure on take off of everything but your commercial jets, its recommended that a forced landing is made while continuing on the heading the aircraft was on. More often than not a worse crash happens when the crew try to turn back to the airport.
    No disrespect to the pilot flying, Iím sure he did his best. I do wonder if the historical value of the aircraft made him decide to try and save the situation instead of aborting the takeoff and ending up in the overrun area, with possible damage.
    From the video however it would seem the engine failure occurred after he was already airborne, and out of options.

    My flight instructor used to say he hates 2 engine aircraft, because the second engine only takes you to the scene of the crash.

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    Default Re: Pretoria Plane Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanSlabbert View Post
    No disrespect to the pilot flying, Iím sure he did his best. I do wonder if the historical value of the aircraft made him decide to try and save the situation instead of aborting the takeoff and ending up in the overrun area, with possible damage.
    From the video however it would seem the engine failure occurred after he was already airborne, and out of options.

    My flight instructor used to say he hates 2 engine aircraft, because the second engine only takes you to the scene of the crash.

    as you say -he was probably adhering to specific data for that aircraft

    -V1 is decision speed, and I think he had reached this, -it looks like the smoketrail only began closer to Vr- (rotate speed), so he had no option but to continue the take-off.

    Not sure what over-run areas there are, but one imagines he did all possible under the conditions.

    Condolences to family/friends of victims-and speedy recovery to those injured.

    In aviation, V-speeds are standard terms used to define airspeeds important or useful to the operation of all aircraft.[1] These speeds are derived from data obtained by aircraft designers and manufacturers during flight testing and verified in most countries by government flight inspectors during aircraft type-certification testing. Using them is considered a best practice to maximize aviation safety, aircraft performance or both.[2]
    The actual speeds represented by these designators are specific to a particular model of aircraft. They are expressed by the aircraft's indicated airspeed (and not by, for example, the ground speed), so that pilots may use them directly, without having to apply correction factors, as aircraft instruments also show indicated airspeed.
    In general aviation aircraft, the most commonly used and most safety-critical airspeeds are displayed as color-coded arcs and lines located on the face of an aircraft's airspeed indicator. The lower ends of the green arc and the white arc are the stalling speed with wing flaps retracted, and stalling speed with wing flaps fully extended, respectively. These are the stalling speeds for the aircraft at its maximum weight.[3][4] The yellow range is the range in which the aircraft may be operated in smooth air, and then only with caution to avoid abrupt control movement, and the red line is the VNE, the never exceed speed.
    Proper display of V-speeds is an airworthiness requirement for type-certificated aircraft in most countries.[5][6]


    Other V-speeds

    Some of these V-speeds are specific to particular types of aircraft and are not defined by regulations.

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    Default Re: Pretoria Plane Crash

    V1 is the critical engine failure recognition speed or takeoff decision speed. It is the speed above which the takeoff will continue even if an engine fails or another problem occurs, such as a blown tire.[9] The speed will vary among aircraft types and varies according to factors such as aircraft weight, runway length, wing flap setting, engine thrust used and runway surface contamination, thus it must be determined by the pilot before takeoff. Aborting a takeoff after V1 is strongly discouraged because the aircraft will by definition not be able to stop before the end of the runway, thus suffering a "runway overrun".[34]

    V1 is defined differently in different jurisdictions:

    • The US Federal Aviation Administration defines it as: "the maximum speed in the takeoff at which the pilot must take the first action (e.g., apply brakes, reduce thrust, deploy speed brakes) to stop the airplane within the accelerate-stop distance. V1 also means the minimum speed in the takeoff, following a failure of the critical engine at VEF, at which the pilot can continue the takeoff and achieve the required height above the takeoff surface within the takeoff distance."[7]
    • Transport Canada defines it as: "Critical engine failure recognition speed" and adds: "This definition is not restrictive. An operator may adopt any other definition outlined in the aircraft flight manual (AFM) of TC type-approved aircraft as long as such definition does not compromise operational safety of the aircraft."[8]
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    Default Re: Pretoria Plane Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick L View Post
    as you say -he was probably adhering to specific data for that aircraft

    -V1 is decision speed, and I think he had reached this, -it looks like the smoketrail only began closer to Vr- (rotate speed), so he had no option but to continue the take-off.

    Not sure what over-run areas there are, but one imagines he did all possible under the conditions.


    Indeed it seems the engine failed at the worst possible moment, between V1 and where stable level flight was possible. There really are no options when you're too low, too slow and have no power to change it.

    Kudos to the pilot for getting it back on the ground in such a way that almost everyone survived.

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    Default Re: Pretoria Plane Crash

    Seems the confirmed death toll is now two.

    https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...light-20180711

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    Default Re: Pretoria Plane Crash

    Quote Originally Posted by staalwol View Post
    Was pretty close to N1, very lucky indeed.

    I drive Moloto road daily, on my way home went passed the crash site minutes after the crash, could not see the plane but only distant smoke, what pissed me off is that the crash site was accessible by a quiet road turning out of Moloto. That road was packed to a standstill by vehicles of nosy people trying to get to the crash site to have a look, ambulance struggled to get passed the blockade. Flippen people that can't mind their own business.
    I drive the Moloto everyday as well but the Sakabuka Ave is not really a quiet road in my view, lot of trucks turning into and exiting that road into Moloto and quite a number of bakkies. Labucon is one of the companies that have a plot there.
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    Default Re: Pretoria Plane Crash

    I was on the scene helping out with fire fighting and looking for missing people as their was confusion at first of how many passangers were onboard,it was chaos..
    And yes the public made things worse,me and other Kameelfontein CPF members had their hands full in controlling traffic and keeping people away
    AFAIK one passanger passed away at the scene,one of the workers that was working at the dairy lost both his legs

    It could have been worse,the pilot definitaley kept a cool head,and knew exactly where and how he was going to put that Convair down

    Big thanks to Kameelfontein CPF that took control of the scene and was also first on the scene fighting fires and helping pasients

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