Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts





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    Default Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    I have heard of a number of diesel engine rebuilds that had problems not too long after the repairs and often requiring another rebuild and selling shortly thereafter. This made me wonder if it is generally the case. Please share your account of a diesel engine rebuilds, and if it was successful in your opinion (include post repair trouble free km's, year that work was done and year model of vehicle).
    Last edited by Kobus4x4; 2018/05/23 at 12:35 PM.

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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    Maybe make the other criteria IN THE LAST 5 YEARS

    my experience is that a LOT of so-called "engineering workshops" are no longer good at what they do
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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    Maybe make the other criteria IN THE LAST 5 YEARS

    my experience is that a LOT of so-called "engineering workshops" are no longer good at what they do
    Done

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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    It is a bit of a double catch 22.

    As vehicles become more reliable they require fewer rebuilds. These days, by the time the engine is worn out the rest of the car is also pretty much toast.
    And in an effort to be more reliable modern engines use some pretty advanced techniques during manufacture making them much harder to rebuild.
    So the engine rebuilders are faced with less volume of work but the task has become a lot harder.

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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanSlabbert View Post
    use some pretty advanced techniques during manufacture making them much harder to rebuild.
    I must say, this is what I have been wondering about. Exactly the reason I wanted to make this thread and see if it still being done successfully by your average engine re-builder...

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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    Also, our expectations have shifted.

    My Dad tells me in the 60's, if an engine made 100 000 miles between rebuilds, it was deemed exceptional.

    Now we expect minimum 200 000km trouble free and we expect it again after a rebuild.

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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    3 x VW 1.9 tdi. 2 x Golf 4 tdi around 1998 year model - 1 x Jetta 4 2000 year model.

    first done around 2005 - full rebuild with rebore and new pistons. all Injectors refurbed, new turbo fitted. Did around 150k after rebuild then I lost track of it.(sold to another party). Was rebuilt because It overheated and seized a piston.

    second done around 2011 - also full refurb - new pistons but not bored. Injectors just checked was all ok. Did around 60k when I lost track of the car / owner moved away to the cape. Was rebuilt because It started smoking and using oil. Suspect it overheated at some point in it's life as the rings had collapsed.

    third done Two years ago. It dropped a valve. Full rebuild with rebore, new pistons, different head, all new valves - two injectors had to be rebuilt, others tested Ok. Had to source a set of roads as well as it bent one. Currently done around 50k km since rebuild. Owner reports sometimes hard start on very cold mornings but have not bothered them enough to let me look at it. I suspect maybe a dead glowplug.

    Rebuild to me means ALL new bearings, ALL new gaskets, new belts and rollers and guides, Head redone with new guides and seals and valves as required. New hydraulic lifters.

    I'll try to post some pics of the last one during the build. Just struggle from work to load pics.
    Last edited by Stephan van Tonder; 2018/05/23 at 01:11 PM.
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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    I rebuilt my freelander 2 td4 motor 70000kms ago. All good. Head rebuilt. New pistons. New oil pump. Turbo. Cam belt

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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    Defender td5 rebuilt in 2017 at 255 000km now on 275 000km.

    No problems thus far, returns 8,5-10km/l without using oil.

    Im hoping for 200 000km as the rebuild was done properly.
    -new amc head
    -new radiator
    -upgraded oil cooler
    -new thermostat
    - EMS system
    -upgraded IC
    -exhaust free flow to lower egt
    -piston and ring assembly kit
    -block reslieved to standard size
    -new oil pump
    -all round new oil,diesel and air filters
    -oil replaced at 1500km and 5000km after rebuild, now runs 10000km between services.
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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanSlabbert View Post
    Also, our expectations have shifted.

    My Dad tells me in the 60's, if an engine made 100 000 miles between rebuilds, it was deemed exceptional.

    Now we expect minimum 200 000km trouble free and we expect it again after a rebuild.
    Quote Originally Posted by JohanSlabbert View Post
    It is a bit of a double catch 22.

    As vehicles become more reliable they require fewer rebuilds. These days, by the time the engine is worn out the rest of the car is also pretty much toast.
    And in an effort to be more reliable modern engines use some pretty advanced techniques during manufacture making them much harder to rebuild.
    So the engine rebuilders are faced with less volume of work but the task has become a lot harder.
    Johan I.. do not agree one bit with the above.

    20 t0 40 years ago engine oils were not what they are now. Today they offer far better lubrication and protection.

    So far all engines are basically the same as what they were 20 to 40 years ago. Block with pistons....Head with valves. The main thing that changed is the fuel delivery system...New ECU etc. But overall the basic design is still the same. Maybe more valves in the head but what else have changed mechanically? So far there is not one engine that i know of that cant be rebuild.... If they sorted the crank on the Land rovers even that would be successfully rebuild.

    There is nothing mythical about an engine or a rebuild...Do it properly and it will last. Use reputable engineering companies. Use decent quality gaskets and parts.
    Problem is that people try to take shortcuts and it turns around to bite them right up the arse.

    Give you a simple example...
    Jeep quoted R164K to remove ..rebuild...and refit a 2.7crd motor in a 2004 Grand Cherokee. I did it myself for 12K. New pistons, Sputter bearings, rings, oil pump, water pump and quality gasket set.
    My personal opinion is that the costs of engine rebuilds are getting more and more prohibitive.....Not the fact that they cant be rebuild.

    The only difficult thing about engines these days is the electronics...But once you understand the basics it is ok.
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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkie7 View Post
    Johan I.. do not agree one bit with the above.

    20 t0 40 years ago engine oils were not what they are now. Today they offer far better lubrication and protection.

    So far all engines are basically the same as what they were 20 to 40 years ago. Block with pistons....Head with valves. The main thing that changed is the fuel delivery system...New ECU etc. But overall the basic design is still the same. Maybe more valves in the head but what else have changed mechanically? So far there is not one engine that i know of that cant be rebuild.... If they sorted the crank on the Land rovers even that would be successfully rebuild.

    There is nothing mythical about an engine or a rebuild...Do it properly and it will last. Use reputable engineering companies. Use decent quality gaskets and parts.
    Problem is that people try to take shortcuts and it turns around to bite them right up the arse.

    Give you a simple example...
    Jeep quoted R164K to remove ..rebuild...and refit a 2.7crd motor in a 2004 Grand Cherokee. I did it myself for 12K. New pistons, Sputter bearings, rings, oil pump, water pump and quality gasket set.
    My personal opinion is that the costs of engine rebuilds are getting more and more prohibitive.....Not the fact that they cant be rebuild.

    The only difficult thing about engines these days is the electronics...But once you understand the basics it is ok.
    That bit in bold I'm not so sure of.

    Fact is, these days engines are more reliable than ever, so it figures there are fewer left to rebuild.

    Would you be able to rebuild another persons Jeep engine for R12K and offer a warranty? If not, I'm afraid your cost comparison is rather irrelevant.

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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanSlabbert View Post
    That bit in bold I'm not so sure of.

    Fact is, these days engines are more reliable than ever, so it figures there are fewer left to rebuild.

    Would you be able to rebuild another persons Jeep engine for R12K and offer a warranty? If not, I'm afraid your cost comparison is rather irrelevant.
    Nope ..I never said that i can give a warantee for that price at all. I just tried to show how inhibitive rebuild costs are these days.....Not that engines cant be rebuild.

    Speak to the guys who had engines that failed after a rebuild and find out why that engine failed.... I myself had a engine that gave trouble after a rebuild....An Injector failed and overfueled burning a psiton. Did i do a shitty job....NO NOT AT ALL. It was completely out of my hands.

    I still stand by the fact that engines are basically the same that they were years ago.....They are tweaked for more power...Better economy...etc. Heck they now pull from a 1200cc what they used to get from a 3l ford. But that does not mean that the 1200cc cant be rebuild. The basics did not change
    Sakkie van Staden
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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    Quote Originally Posted by JohanSlabbert View Post
    That bit in bold I'm not so sure of.

    Fact is, these days engines are more reliable than ever, so it figures there are fewer left to rebuild.

    Would you be able to rebuild another persons Jeep engine for R12K and offer a warranty? If not, I'm afraid your cost comparison is rather irrelevant.
    Have to agree with you. sakkie7 is smoking the good stuff if he thinks engines are basically the same now as 20-40 years ago.

    Just about the only thing a 4 cylinder engine from then to now has in common is the word 4.
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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkie7 View Post
    Nope ..I never said that i can give a warantee for that price at all. I just tried to show how inhibitive rebuild costs are these days.....Not that engines cant be rebuild.

    Speak to the guys who had engines that failed after a rebuild and find out why that engine failed.... I myself had a engine that gave trouble after a rebuild....An Injector failed and overfueled burning a psiton. Did i do a shitty job....NO NOT AT ALL. It was completely out of my hands.

    I still stand by the fact that engines are basically the same that they were years ago.....They are tweaked for more power...Better economy...etc. Heck they now pull from a 1200cc what they used to get from a 3l ford. But that does not mean that the 1200cc cant be rebuild. The basics did not change
    While in broader terms, the workings of the engine remain the same, people also need to know that when comparing older engines to newer engines, the newer engines are also made from various alloys so reboring an alloy block may not be the same as boring an old cast iron block.

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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Have to agree with you. sakkie7 is smoking the good stuff if he thinks engines are basically the same now as 20-40 years ago.

    Just about the only thing a 4 cylinder engine from then to now has in common is the word 4.
    Oom Flufmeister...here in Cape Town it is to dry to grow the GOODSTUFF....

    But please tell me why you guys disagree
    I every now and again open a engine up and rebuild them...From engines from the 60's to up to date engines.

    The internals stayed basically the same.
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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    Quote Originally Posted by Therackermann View Post
    While in broader terms, the workings of the engine remain the same, people also need to know that when comparing older engines to newer engines, the newer engines are also made from various alloys so reboring an alloy block may not be the same as boring an old cast iron block.
    The sleeves in diesel engines are 99% Cast iron. They can be rebored....I just prefer to keep things standard and have new sleeves fitted. Engineering company that i normally use charges R240 to press out sleeve and to refit new sleeve per cylinder.

    Even the new alloy blocks have Cast iron sleeves.
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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    I can see where Sakkie is going, take off all the fancy hanging bits and it is still 4 or 6 cylinders with crank bearings and heads with valves.

    Fact of the matter is that things have become easier, tolerances are much better than ever before. I learned the now forgotten skill of scraping white metal bearings and a ring file is something I still have ( haven't ever needed to use it but if needed I know how to). If you buy a new crankshaft and fit it to a new engine it is a relatively simple operation, have it ground to your spec and 99.9 times you don't even need plasitgauge ( another obsolete tool)

    Unfortunately the modern diesel is a different animal, any engine that could produce more than 700 nm on the wheels id awesome but if it happens to be a 1,9 tdi it is even more so. Revving to over 5000rpm with fuel consumption as low as 20 - 25 km/l changes the rules of the game. I can rebuild most petrol engines successfully and reliably but as far as the modern Diesel.......reliability will always be an issue. I am sure the real fundis and experts can but at what cost
    Last edited by hbannink; 2018/05/23 at 11:31 PM.
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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkie7 View Post
    Oom Flufmeister...here in Cape Town it is to dry to grow the GOODSTUFF....

    But please tell me why you guys disagree
    I every now and again open a engine up and rebuild them...From engines from the 60's to up to date engines.

    The internals stayed basically the same.
    Basically the same yes, but at the same time sufficiently different to have made it impractical or near impossible to rework.

    ——————-

    Materials and coatings. Especially anti friction chemical coatings. Touareg R5 engine a prime example.

    Aluminum blocks with steel sleeves that can’t be rebored.

    4/5 valves per cylinder, coated with exotic materials. Multiple overhead cams with variable valve timing mechanisms that defy logic. No such thing as wip of a head, reseat some valves, give it a skim and replace with a gasket homemade with some cork or cardboard lurking in the tool cupboard.

    And then we can’t simply discard the mechanical things that have been removed and replaced by sensors and servos and electronics. Like a geared distributor being replaced by crank angle sensors and computer controlled coil per cylinder coil packs ( yes in know that’s petrol but) Or geared pumps and valves being replaced by multipoint sequential fuel injection systems.

    And as hbannik says above, the manufacturing tolerances. To me that makes the internals similarities more of an optical illusion than anything else.

    —————

    Right now we still have a mix of older technologies and ultra high tech diesels, but I can see it getting to the point where complete subs is the only option, purely because the motors are designed that way and piece parts aren’t available.

    ————

    Old telephone lines barely managed a noisy two way conversation. New ones give us real time HD video streaming with a Skype video conference call and high speed data.

    On the face of it, both use a piece of copper wire in a pipe underground.
    Last edited by Fluffy; 2018/05/24 at 09:14 AM.
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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkie7 View Post

    Even the new alloy blocks have Cast iron sleeves.
    Sorry not 100% completely correct. Although SOME might have that there are several that actually run in the aluminium. VW/Audi has several of these and I can assure there there is no cast iron sleeve or even a coating.
    There is silicon particles embedded in the aluminium and it is chemically stripped and then diamond tip cut to give a surface that the piston can run in. On top of that the main bearing cradle is press fitted and glued into the block so those are engines that are really not rebuildable. You cannot even buy any of the parts to do it. Yes the example I gave you is a petrol but it just describes the method it is done. It's the same for some of the newer alu block diesels.

    http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_377.pdf
    Last edited by Stephan van Tonder; 2018/05/24 at 11:57 AM.
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    Default Re: Successful/Unsuccessful Diesel Engine Rebuild Accounts

    I agree with Fluffy on this. The new engines are miles ahead of what we had 15 years ago, let alone 30 years ago.
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