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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Weaver View Post
    No need to sigh - I have seen more definitions of overlanding on this forum than I have of what constitutes an expedition-ready vehicle. For someone like me or Lekhubu or Stan or others who overland extensively, overlanding means self-supported vehicle-based multi-day expeditions that often cross one or more or even multiple borders.
    To others, overlanding means a weekend's camping at their local dam.
    So yes, no size fits all, and every question has a different answer.

    Yes, I get you... but what does that have to do with the original post? This guy wants to maybe start camping.....
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    I can understand OP's no desire for Toyota. I am quite similar. During the last 10 years I had all the major 4x4 and used them for their purpose. With the same requirements, I started with Discovery 3 TDV6. In 2008, it was the best all round vehicle. I am not sure you can get the same today at that price! I hated the Fortuner. The Pajero has always been problem free. The LC100 is a very good vehicle and easy to suggest even today.
    I would suggest the Nissan Patrol diesel. Unfortunately only in manual gears. I ended up with a Gelandewagon.

    I agree with the comments that you need a easy to live with vehicle but at the same time, you should get something that put a smile on your face during the journey. No cars gave more smiles than the good ol' Range Rover classic V8!

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    Yes, I get you... but what does that have to do with the original post? This guy wants to maybe start camping.....
    Well, the title of the thread is "Which Overland 4x4 to buy?" and to quote the OP, "Overlanding for me = Long cross country trips i.e. into and around Botswana, Namibia, Mozambique (been there already)."

    Not the same as "maybe start camping".
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    Previously Land Rover 1968 SII, 1969 SIIA, 1973 SIII, 1983 Toyota HiLux 2litre, 2006 Land Rover Freelander TD4 HSE.

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  5. #24
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    Like mentioned by others , forget 'exciting' and go for tried and tested (if a bit boring). If you travel out of the SA border extensively it has to be something that's quite common in other countries: LCs , Prados, Hiluxes etc.
    Bit you knew that already, I'm sure...

    Good luck with your search!

  6. #25
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by StarkII View Post
    Hi All

    A couple of years ago I got some advice from you guys to have a look at the Jeep Renegade when considering the most capable of the smaller/soft roader 4x4's available, we ended up buying the Trailhawk and have enjoyed each of the 50k km's done so far, so thanks for that

    We've enjoyed getting out and about but the Renegade does however have a few shortcomings though which has lead me to consider getting another vehicle as we look forward to even more overland adventures, and maybe even start camping out, but this time the list of "needs" is a little more specific.

    All my googling about what's important, what's not important and X vs Y Youtube comparisons has left be utterly confused, so I though I ask you guys for your opinions again and see where that takes us.

    We're hoping to do even more

    So far my list of wants/needs are:
    Budget R550k
    4x4 capability (respectable approach, departure, break-over angles)
    Low Range gearing
    Range (900km on road)
    Ground Clearance (230mm +)
    Center diff lock (front to rear)
    Rear diff lock (ELSD is okay)
    Big wheels (30")
    Normal Suspension (Not Air Suspension)
    Size (bigger than renegade, smaller than land cruiser)
    Towing Capacity (~1800 kg)
    On-board Capacity - 4 adults and their luggage
    Daily use (work and back into town)
    Performance (140kw +)

    I know the list is long, some of these are not as important as others. some vehicles may need to be modified to meet these, but I'm okay with that... doesn't have to be new, but lets limit the age to 2014 and newer.

    A few considerations thus far - please feel free to counter my opinions:
    Jeep Grand Cherokee (2015/2016) 3.0 CRD Limited/Overland - the Trailhawk would have been an awesome option but not available in SA and also Air Suspension
    Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon/Sahara - don't like engine options, forthcoming 2.0T way too expensive (est. R850k standard), not great for long distance, not great as a daily drive either
    Fortuner - ...not particularly fond of the Bakkie/SUV's or Toyota's
    Prado - just not exciting
    Ford Everest - ...not particularly fond of the Bakkie/SUV's, but this one seems okayish

    (edited my list, not sure why only half of it appeared first time round)
    SaveSave

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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    Even if he had stated he would want a new SUV with a manual gearbox and 7 seats, that uses diesel, and had solid axles, someone would come and suggest a 2010 secondhand Pajero.... Strue... Go and check every one of these threads.., someone always mentioned a secondhand Pajero, even if he wanted a new vehicle..
    This made me smile because its so true
    I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right!

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  9. #27
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by StarkII View Post
    Hi All

    A couple of years ago I got some advice from you guys to have a look at the Jeep Renegade when considering the most capable of the smaller/soft roader 4x4's available, we ended up buying the Trailhawk and have enjoyed each of the 50k km's done so far, so thanks for that

    We've enjoyed getting out and about but the Renegade does however have a few shortcomings though which has lead me to consider getting another vehicle as we look forward to even more overland adventures, and maybe even start camping out, but this time the list of "needs" is a little more specific.

    All my googling about what's important, what's not important and X vs Y Youtube comparisons has left be utterly confused, so I though I ask you guys for your opinions again and see where that takes us.

    We're hoping to do even more

    So far my list of wants/needs are:
    Budget R550k
    4x4 capability (respectable approach, departure, break-over angles)
    Low Range gearing
    Range (900km on road)
    Ground Clearance (230mm +)
    Center diff lock (front to rear)
    Rear diff lock (ELSD is okay)
    Big wheels (30")
    Normal Suspension (Not Air Suspension)
    Size (bigger than renegade, smaller than land cruiser)
    Towing Capacity (~1800 kg)
    On-board Capacity - 4 adults and their luggage
    Daily use (work and back into town)
    Performance (140kw +)

    I know the list is long, some of these are not as important as others. some vehicles may need to be modified to meet these, but I'm okay with that... doesn't have to be new, but lets limit the age to 2014 and newer.

    A few considerations thus far - please feel free to counter my opinions:
    Jeep Grand Cherokee (2015/2016) 3.0 CRD Limited/Overland - the Trailhawk would have been an awesome option but not available in SA and also Air Suspension
    Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon/Sahara - don't like engine options, forthcoming 2.0T way too expensive (est. R850k standard), not great for long distance, not great as a daily drive either
    Fortuner - ...not particularly fond of the Bakkie/SUV's or Toyota's
    Prado - just not exciting
    Ford Everest - ...not particularly fond of the Bakkie/SUV's, but this one seems okayish

    (edited my list, not sure why only half of it appeared first time round)
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Weaver View Post
    Well, the title of the thread is "Which Overland 4x4 to buy?" and to quote the OP, "Overlanding for me = Long cross country trips i.e. into and around Botswana, Namibia, Mozambique (been there already)."

    Not the same as "maybe start camping".
    Did we read the same post?

    Get the Pajero.. Its the bestest
    Last edited by Hedgehog; 2018/05/16 at 01:54 PM.
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  10. #28
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    In my mind all I can see as options is the Fortuner or Pajero
    Darryn Van Rooyen
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  11. #29
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    Did we read the same post?

    Get the Pajero.. Its the bestest
    Given all the OP's requirements, why shouldn't a new Pajero Sport or nearly new (2016 - 2017) Pajero GLS or Exceed be on his shortlist? Both tow well on and off road and offer large interior space: https://practicalmotoring.com.au/4x4...-pajero-sport/.
    2001 Gen 3 Pajero swb 3.2 Di-D

  12. #30
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    Thanks all for the responses thus far.

    Regarding the camping aspect, I just don't want to be limited with this vehicle. We're planning a trip to Botswana, hopefully going next month but more on that in another thread.
    Although it's usually just the two we've invited my FIL to join, we though we might camp out a couple of nights, but soon realised the there wasn't going to be enough space for our kit and (borrowed) camping gear in the car. Easy enough problem to solve I thought, just hire a kitted out 4x4 trailer... this is until I found out that they weigh around 900KG which is pretty much on the limit of the Renegade towing capacity, so we'll be staying in lodges this time, and maybe camping next time

    I intended to be a bit vague about particular brands in the initial post in the hope to get some "out there" responses to consider something I hadn't already considered.

    Wrangler Unlimited
    This was our first choice but high fuel consumption and 70L tank means driving range isn't much better than the Renegade, apparently the 2.8 diesel is just as bad as the 3.6 V6 @~15l/100
    By all accounts it not a great long distance car and not great for city driving but can't be beaten on really rough terrain - but how often do you need THAT level of off-road capability?
    Also really like the variety of after-market stuff out there to make it a little unique.

    Grand Cherokee
    To be honest the GC WK2 3.0 CRD ticks ticks almost every box except I'd hate to get caught in the middle of nowhere with a broken suspension... but how likely is that? OR is there an option to fit a lockable rear diff to a WK2 without QL?

    Toyota
    There have been a few suggestions for the Prado.. but doesn't that also have air suspension? I guess I'll have to take one for a test drive some time
    As with the Prado the new "tuna" seems like it may be worth a look, both seem to compare quite well to the Everest which could be awesome with some mods, thinking Raptor like suspension and performance tune
    There are just so many out there... and I realize that not necessarily a BAD thing but the're just a bit bland... just thought of something, maybe I need to see what option are available from Arctic Trucks?

    Pajero
    The Pajero certainly has credentials, we test drove the previous version, it was just too utilitarian.
    Just don't like the looks of the new one... would rather go Prado

    Land Rover
    LR3 / LR4 3.0 D also thought about this but I'm expecting high maintenance costs, expensive repairs and doesn't it also have air suspension? - how's fuel consumption / range?
    Disco Sport - can't see the point of this, no real benefits over the Renegade... except maybe the SVR, but that would be way out of my price range


    Suzuki Jimny
    My wife would love one, but it's even smaller that the Renegade :-)



    Having thought about it a little more, I guess I want something a little more Unique.

    Can you guys recommend any 4x4 builders?
    maybe I should have a look around at what they've done for some more ideas.

    ...just not zone off-road
    Last edited by StarkII; 2018/05/16 at 07:04 PM.
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  13. #31
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    this could be worth a look... wonder how much $$


    Name:  Prado-150-Arctic-Truck-11-of-13-940x537.jpg
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    http://4wdtruckin.com/2016/12/08/arc...prado-35-inch/
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  14. #32
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by StarkII View Post
    this could be worth a look... wonder how much $$
    You do not take a heavily modded vehicle like that overlanding into Africa. Read what Tony said, ask Stan. Keep it simple and standard!

    Prado VX has air suspension which is actually superb and give zero hassles. TX has coils and shocks. Both are capable overlanders and towing vehicles in standard form.
    Last edited by lekhubu943; 2018/05/16 at 07:49 PM.
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  16. #33
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    Any reason why double cabs are not on the list? For that price you can buy a brand new Navara out the box with the current discounts. You can get the top LE spec with all the bells and whistles and the drive is very nice for a bakkie, if you fit a canopy you can do some serious overlanding. I got mine a month ago and I must say I am mighty impressed. You will get a 6yr 150k warranty with it!
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  17. #34
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    Default Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    Double Post
    Last edited by Hooly; 2018/05/16 at 10:42 PM.
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  18. #35
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    I think Tony nailed it. However, I don't think that this is what the OP wants to hear. Too boring.

    I also have a suggestion that we implement a system of levels of overlanding.

    1. Mall Crawling - never more than 100km from home.
    2. Tar travel to a lodge in Pilanesberg or Knysna. Some gravel travel involved.
    3. Same as 2, but with more gravel and maybe some camping - let's say a long weekend in the Tankwa.
    4. 2-3 week self-supported trips into Namibia, Botswana or Zambia.
    5. Multi-week (or -month) self-supported travel into isolated areas, possibly crossing multiple borders on the way.
    6. Round-the-world and other OTT trips

    Then it is easy to pick the right vehicle. If you are going to do mostly 2's, buy something exciting and quick. If on the other hand you are going for 5's, you would want something reliable, fixable and capable. If you are aiming for a 4, like most on here I would imagine, then just about any pukka 4x4 on the market will do, so go out and drive them all and then choose the one you like. @#[email protected]#, it is not like you are marrying. If it doesn't work or your needs change, sell it, pay your school fees and get something better suited to your needs.
    Last edited by dph; 2018/05/16 at 09:37 PM.

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  20. #36
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by lekhubu943 View Post
    You do not take a heavily modded vehicle like that overlanding into Africa. Read what Tony said, ask Stan. Keep it simple and standard!

    Prado VX has air suspension which is actually superb and give zero hassles. TX has coils and shocks. Both are capable overlanders and towing vehicles in standard form.
    THIS, keep it stock standard.

    It is causing me grey hairs and stress management. Weight goes up with all the added bits and the car sits skew. First thing the guys say ... change the suspension.

    Other than not taking SWAMBO and mini SWAMBO I just do not see a way round this.

    I loaded the car with all the kit but empty on food and water and half tank of fuel. 3080 kg ... GVM ..... 3160.

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  22. #37
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by dph View Post
    I think Tony nailed it. However, I don't think that this is what the OP wants to hear. Too boring.

    I also have a suggestion that we implement a system of levels of overlanding.

    1. Mall Crawling - never more than 100km from home.
    2. Tar travel to a lodge in Pilanesberg or Knysna. Some gravel travel involved.
    3. Same as 2, but with more gravel and maybe some camping - let's say a long weekend in the Tankwa.
    4. 2-3 week self-supported trips into Namibia, Botswana or Zambia.
    5. Multi-week (or -month) self-supported travel into isolated areas, possibly crossing multiple borders on the way.
    6. Round-the-world and other OTT trips
    + 1000 on all points.
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  23. #38
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    I work in Afrika most of the time . Most of the vechicles used by NGO’s are landcruisers because they paid and run by tax payers money and up to a point maybe most reliable. Whe got 2 x cruisers and both clutch problems between 27000 and 37000 km and very very heavy on fuel.Spoken to a overland operator he use Defenders and Cruisers. He said ,Cruisers more reliable than defenders, but he said got request from some clients to use Defenders because Cruisers ride too hard. He also said defenders more economical . He also said Cruiser spares more available at remote locations.

  24. #39
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by dph View Post
    2. Tar travel to a lodge in Pilanesberg or Knysna. Some gravel travel involved.
    3. Same as 2, but with more gravel and maybe some camping - let's say a long weekend in the Tankwa.
    I'm wanting to start this.

    Hilux 4L V6 a good option? Budget about R150k
    Always think: Could this be sarcasm?

  25. #40
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    Default Re: Which Overland 4x4 to buy?

    From my experience with a Disco 4, I don't think you should necessarily view having air suspension as a bad thing. It is very comfortable, and we never had problems with the air suspension touring Namibia, or the badly corrugated roads of the Northern Cape, in a fully loaded vehicle (4 people, camping gear etc).
    Ex: 2010 Discovery 4 V8 - bought 93k km, sold 149k km. Awesome vehicle, but a bottomless pit.
    Ex: 2006 Fortuner D4D - Best vehicle I've owned Bought 47k km, sold 267k km.
    Ex: 4x4 Hilux 2.7i - bought 70k km, sold 241k km.
    Company vehicle: 2006 Hilux D4D 4x4 - still going strong at >310 000km.

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