Defender Defender td5 brakes fading





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  1. #1
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    Default Defender td5 brakes fading

    Hi Gents

    My def 110 brakes don’t feel as if they “bite” quite like they use to. It has new pads and the discs still look decent.

    What are the the typical culprits?

    Im wondering about the following:
    Brake booster
    New or reconditioned brake master cylinder
    Dot4 vs Dot5 brake fluid
    Braided brake hoses
    Brake caliper rebuild

    Cheers
    Pieter Greyling
    ONE LIFE, LIVE IT!
    ORRA: Z85
    LROC member:5881

    -Land Rover Defender 110 Td5
    -BMW F800GS

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    Start with braided flexible hoses. Most old vehicle start getting issues there.

    If still not good, check the booster and master cylinder: some boosters simply split due to age.
    2012 Jeep Sahara Unlimited 3.6 V6
    Percivamus

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  4. #3
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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    Booster some times get hair line cracks where master bolts onto over time, coursing vacume leak
    1995 300TDi Defender with VGT Turbo (stolen by my son now )
    2002 Defender with LS1 MS3 ECU, 4L80e, LT230 1.222, Lockers and HD CW&P, 35" with 4" Lift
    2005 Defender TD5

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  6. #4
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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    Don't forget the pipe from the vacuum pump to the booster. The fitting where it goes into the booster is also suspect.
    Have you bled the system end-to-end as per the manual? A nanocom really makes it a simple job.

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  8. #5
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    Default Defender td5 brakes fading

    I will have a good look at the above mentioned parts and report back. The brake fluid does seem pretty brown so its clearly overdue for a renewal.
    Last edited by pjf110; 2018/05/15 at 09:19 PM.
    Pieter Greyling
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    -Land Rover Defender 110 Td5
    -BMW F800GS

  9. #6
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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    Ok so ive done a visual inspection and the only thing that stands out is the connection at the vacuum pump. Please feel free to comment on anything that looks out of sorts to you. Click image for larger version. 

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    On an unrelated note, the old egr valve is sweating oil. Where can i find a replacement that does not have the egr bits?
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    Pieter Greyling
    ONE LIFE, LIVE IT!
    ORRA: Z85
    LROC member:5881

    -Land Rover Defender 110 Td5
    -BMW F800GS

  10. #7
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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    Quote Originally Posted by pjf110 View Post
    Hi Gents

    My def 110 brakes don’t feel as if they “bite” quite like they use to. It has new pads and the discs still look decent.

    What are the the typical culprits?

    Im wondering about the following:
    Brake booster
    New or reconditioned brake master cylinder
    Dot4 vs Dot5 brake fluid
    Braided brake hoses
    Brake caliper rebuild

    Cheers
    Hi
    check your brake servo where the master cylinder is bolted on. Hairline cracks appear around both the bolts on the servo housing. I have only dealt with this today in my 99 Defender, discovered the hairlines thanks to a photo on this forum, sanded the cracks clean with 100 grit and used black nail varnish ( courtesy of my wife’s handbag) applying two coats to be sure. Vacuum and servo working perfectly again with all four wheels locking up easily- so time enough to order a new servo. Thanks to the okes for the post found here! Cheers and hope it helps. RR.

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  12. #8
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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    Think I may have found the culprit. Hairline cracks in servo booster as mentioned by jelo, clivemd and ratelrory.

    . Click image for larger version. 

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    The other question is do I go for a new master brake cylinder as well or just replace servo.
    Pieter Greyling
    ONE LIFE, LIVE IT!
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    -Land Rover Defender 110 Td5
    -BMW F800GS

  13. #9
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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    Quote Originally Posted by pjf110 View Post
    The other question is do I go for a new master brake cylinder as well or just replace servo.
    I'd go for both but I hate doing stuff twice. Like removing and refitting master cylinders.
    2012 Jeep Sahara Unlimited 3.6 V6
    Percivamus

  14. #10
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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    Not a big job to change out master, try with old one first, also depends what price new one is if cheap change it out
    1995 300TDi Defender with VGT Turbo (stolen by my son now )
    2002 Defender with LS1 MS3 ECU, 4L80e, LT230 1.222, Lockers and HD CW&P, 35" with 4" Lift
    2005 Defender TD5

  15. #11
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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    Quote Originally Posted by clivemd View Post
    Not a big job to change out master, try with old one first, also depends what price new one is if cheap change it out
    We have a LP4A in Midrand, they'll have decent prices
    2012 Jeep Sahara Unlimited 3.6 V6
    Percivamus

  16. #12
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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    Some long overdue feedback, replaced the booster and rebuilt the master with a kit. I suspect a proper bleeding with new oil also helped.

    In future I may have a look at braided hoses as they are about 22 years old now.
    Pieter Greyling
    ONE LIFE, LIVE IT!
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    -Land Rover Defender 110 Td5
    -BMW F800GS

  17. #13
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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    Quote Originally Posted by pjf110 View Post
    Some long overdue feedback, replaced the booster and rebuilt the master with a kit. I suspect a proper bleeding with new oil also helped.

    In future I may have a look at braided hoses as they are about 22 years old now.
    i make my own braided hoses up to how long i need them as my brother sells the hose and fitting all FTF they are the top too
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    1995 300TDi Defender with VGT Turbo (stolen by my son now )
    2002 Defender with LS1 MS3 ECU, 4L80e, LT230 1.222, Lockers and HD CW&P, 35" with 4" Lift
    2005 Defender TD5

  18. #14
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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    In need of some advise from the gurus here please!


    1. Brakes on my Td5 Defender started getting "harder", needing more force on the pedal - as if there's no power assistance.
    2. If I put my foot on the pedal before starting, the pedal still got "sucked in".
    3. All hoses found in good condition.
    4. Found (the usual) hairline crack on the booster - replaced.
    5. Found a leak on the front calipers - overhauled front and rear calipers (no scarring or pitting found on caliper's sleeves, seals on pistons inserted correctly, pistons moving freely).
    6. Brakes bled correctly - no air in system.
    7. Made no difference. Had to carry on driving as is, due to being daily transport.
    8. Next the brake pedal stopped returning fully and had to be "lifted" by foot for the last 3-5mm.
    9. Brakes were working correctly as I could feel their "drag" release the moment I lifted the pedal.
    10. Upon braking on Monday the pedal went "soft" and nearly to the firewall. Not as in collapsed, but as in still got resistance, still got a modicum of brakes.
    11. Pedal not returning at all, but if I pump it by hooking my left foot under the pedal and right foot on top, brakes return (Still hard).


    I'm a bush-mechanic - which is the most dangerous kind, but all I could figure it out to be is the brake master-cylinder?
    I've ordered a kit - they're cheap. If it fixes the issue, I'll replace the cylinder with a new one.

    If it doesn't solve my problem, am I correct in assuming all that is left is the vacuum pump on the alternator and also all its pipes? If so - how can I ascertain whether it has gone belly-up on me - I'm sitting in the Bundu and the closest LR mechanic is 300km's away, in another province.
    "ASK YOURSELF HOW OLD YOU'D BE IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW THE DATE YOU WERE BORN" - Toby Keith

    1959 SII 88"
    196? S2B FC "Over Lander" Camper
    1975 Land Rover Air-Portable Lightweight
    197? RRC
    2002 Defender Td5 D/C
    AND SWAMBO's Unmentionable Abomination

  19. #15
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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    Pedal not returning sounds like a broken return spring inside the main brake cylinder, had the same on a BMW 318 long time ago.
    '89 LR 110 V8

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  21. #16
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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    Etienne , Iwould first off check for play on front wheel bearings. Then check for a bulging brake line under pressure. Then start looking at the expensive stuff. Come to think of it, since its all round discs, check the rear bearings as well.
    Last edited by Francois Theron; 2020/06/26 at 02:31 PM.
    We can't change the wind but we can set our sails

  22. #17
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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    Yep, sounds like the master cylinder.
    2012 Jeep Sahara Unlimited 3.6 V6
    Percivamus

  23. #18
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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    Any update on this problem Etienne?
    We can't change the wind but we can set our sails

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    Default Re: Defender td5 brakes fading

    Quote Originally Posted by Francois Theron View Post
    Any update on this problem Etienne?
    Francois, I'm close to running out of talent on this:


    1. As you suggested, I checked and the brake lines are not bulging.
    2. Whilst under the car I also checked all other brake lines in case one or more got whacked and pinched by a rock or something - all fine.
    3. Checked the wheel bearings - all good, but "sommer" packed with grease.
    4. Installed new master cylinder.
    5. Checked if pump is supplying vacuum at brake booster - all good.


    Still got the same symptoms/problem.

    All I can still think of is that one or more of the brake hoses' interior is "collapsing" when pressure is applied - but doesn't show it when bleeding the brakes as there's not enough pressure.

    I've ordered a set of 4.
    "ASK YOURSELF HOW OLD YOU'D BE IF YOU DIDN'T KNOW THE DATE YOU WERE BORN" - Toby Keith

    1959 SII 88"
    196? S2B FC "Over Lander" Camper
    1975 Land Rover Air-Portable Lightweight
    197? RRC
    2002 Defender Td5 D/C
    AND SWAMBO's Unmentionable Abomination

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