LPG geyser SANS regulation




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  1. #1
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    Default LPG geyser SANS regulation

    I need some hot water in my maids bathroom and bought a 10l gas geyser. I know there are humorous regulations and you need a COC...but why?

    What is the difference between one of these gas heaters on weels and a small geyser? Fix installation you might say. But what if I install the geyser with flex hose shorter than 2 meters and flex water hose connection? What defines a fix installation by law? And what does the law say about gas cylinders? Can it stand outside with a regulator and flex hose?

    I am doing such a simple job I dont want to pay some oke thousand for the install, but also dont want to put myself at risk with insurance so need my facts straight. (FYI: I am extremely technical and capable)

  2. #2

    Default LPG geyser SANS regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stekel View Post
    I need some hot water in my maids bathroom and bought a 10l gas geyser. I know there are humorous regulations and you need a COC...but why?

    What is the difference between one of these gas heaters on weels and a small geyser? Fix installation you might say. But what if I install the geyser with flex hose shorter than 2 meters and flex water hose connection? What defines a fix installation by law? And what does the law say about gas cylinders? Can it stand outside with a regulator and flex hose?

    I am doing such a simple job I dont want to pay some oke thousand for the install, but also dont want to put myself at risk with insurance so need my facts straight. (FYI: I am extremely technical and capable)
    It is an insurance requirement to have a coc for any gas installation. No way around it. Been through the exercise.

    Then I asked my insurance co about the insurance regulations around having a “donkey geyser” they seemed a bit confused.
    Last edited by Therackermann; 2018/05/02 at 09:08 PM.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: LPG geyser SANS regulation

    Whoever fits it has to be certified. The cylinder also has to stand outside and have a stop cock outside and inside the building on copper pipe. The cylinder must stand on a pedestal as the gas is heavier than air and can't pool around the cylinder. Ensure that it is away from a drain and the gas can't seep into the drain. You won't get past the insurance without a CoC. If you do have a fire and they find no Coc for the installation you're looking at big problems.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: LPG geyser SANS regulation

    Maybe I am putting my foot into the fire but the basic requirements are:

    Firstly, the definition of a fixed appliance reads as follows:
    any appliance that is permanently mounted into a fixture, for example, a stove or a fireplace

    So even if you put it on wheels it is IN a frame (fixture) and will be regarded as a fixed appliance.

    SANS 10087-1: para 6.2.1 Fixed appliances shall be installed by a registered installer. - Your HWC/geyser is a fixed appliance so you need to have the geyser installation done by a registered installer. The alternative is that you do it yourself using the specifications as per SANS 10087-1 and get an Engineer to sign it off.

    Then all the ventilation requirements by para 6.3 needs to be met as well.

    The installation needs to be inspected every five years and certified again.

    Your insurance house will require of you (as the owner of the property) an installation certificate if you claim due to gas related damage or death.

    Having said that I seldom come across an installation that is in full compliance with SANS 10087-1 ... sad but true.
    Last edited by mygoggie; 2018/05/02 at 09:03 PM.

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    Default Re: LPG geyser SANS regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Therackermann View Post
    Then I asked my insurance co about the insurance regulations around having a “donkey geyser” they seemed a bit confused.
    Have you ever seen a 'donkey' blow its top? I have. Think 'Old Faithful', but in the African bush.

    For every 10 gas geyser installations I have seen in my travels around Southern Africa, I think 1 might have been installed more or less to code.

    But donkeys, gas or electric, these things are downright dangerous. The Mythbusters blew an electric up by bypassing all safeties. I think the thing flew 100m into the air. So I think its best to inform yourself as best you can when installing, or having one installed.


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  6. #6

    Default LPG geyser SANS regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Naes-Landy View Post
    Have you ever seen a 'donkey' blow its top? I have. Think 'Old Faithful', but in the African bush.

    For every 10 gas geyser installations I have seen in my travels around Southern Africa, I think 1 might have been installed more or less to code.

    But donkeys, gas or electric, these things are downright dangerous. The Mythbusters blew an electric up by bypassing all safeties. I think the thing flew 100m into the air. So I think its best to inform yourself as best you can when installing, or having one installed.


    Relax Sir. Nobody that I know of would install a donkey geyser to their suburban houses main hot water supply.

    My question was merely tongue in cheek seasoned with a hint of sarcastic flavouring, cooked in a Cobb to perfection and served to the hypersensitive yellow umbrella insurance company call centre guy telephonically. He on the other end, didn’t know what it was so he wasn’t sure if he was to use a knife and fork or a set of chopsticks.

    Mythbusters? Now that was a good programme.
    Last edited by Therackermann; 2018/05/03 at 06:35 AM.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: LPG geyser SANS regulation

    [QUOTE=Therackermann;3884468]Nobody that I know of would install a donkey geyser to their suburban houses main hot water supply./QUOTE]

    Actually seen a few. Been contemplating one myself as pruning the trees provides enough wood for many hours of free kWs.

  8. #8

    Default Re: LPG geyser SANS regulation

    [QUOTE=mygoggie;3884470]
    Quote Originally Posted by Therackermann View Post
    Nobody that I know of would install a donkey geyser to their suburban houses main hot water supply./QUOTE]

    Actually seen a few. Been contemplating one myself as pruning the trees provides enough wood for many hours of free kWs.
    Best way to convince the wife to bulldoze the garden and replace it with a sekelbos plantation.

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    Default Re: LPG geyser SANS regulation

    [QUOTE=Therackermann;3884525]
    Quote Originally Posted by mygoggie View Post

    Best way to convince the wife to bulldoze the garden and replace it with a sekelbos plantation.
    I seriously doubt if I will have a Boss after such an adventure ....

  10. #10
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    Default Re: LPG geyser SANS regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by mygoggie View Post
    So even if you put it on wheels it is IN a frame (fixture) and will be regarded as a fixed appliance.
    This is a gas stove fixed inside a frame? So I need a COC?
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: LPG geyser SANS regulation

    Actually thinking about it now? What about mobile homes, caravan and bush trailers with fixed installed gas geysers? What is the stance from you motor vehicle insurer regarding these installation and COC's?
    Ouch...my head is starting to hurt.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: LPG geyser SANS regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stekel View Post
    Actually thinking about it now? What about mobile homes, caravan and bush trailers with fixed installed gas geysers? What is the stance from you motor vehicle insurer regarding these installation and COC's?
    Ouch...my head is starting to hurt.
    LPG installations in mobile homes, caravans, trailers must adhere to the requirements of SANS 10087-2. As per this regulation and I quote: "The installation of a container(s) and all associated equipment and appliances and any subsequent repair or modifications to the installation shall be carried out by a registered installer qualified to the appropriate grade (domestic or commercial).

    NOTE This requirement does not include the replacement of empty containers.

    Container installation requirements for each type of mobile unit described in this part of SANS 10087 will be dealt with in the appropriate annex for that particular unit."

    So yes, these have very specific details for each as stipulated in the various appendices.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: LPG geyser SANS regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stekel View Post
    This is a gas stove fixed inside a frame? So I need a COC?
    That is regarded as a gas stove per sae and not equipment fixed in a frame. So it will be qualified to comply to SANS 1539 which has its own very specific requirements. The one in the picture most likely does not comply with SANS 1539 in my opinion (which stands to be corrected).

    The issue you are sitting with is that you live in country where lots of legislation exist that are not enforced effectively. This has created an environment where the norm has become a non-compliant "standard". You cannot claim ignorance of the law when you are complying with the norm of the day.

    I understand and respect your technical skills. No issues with that. Like I said, buy the SANS doc, study it up, get a registered Engineer mate over and let him check and certify your installation.

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    Default Re: LPG geyser SANS regulation

    Thanks for the info, dont get me wrong, I am not trying to argue my way around the law, It just seems like there are loopholes in the gas installation law. Maybe it only seems that way to me since I have not read the SANS yet.

    You mention that you need a registered engineer? Is this just a figure of speech or do you have to be a PrEng to be able to issue a COC? (Just for interest sake)

  15. #15
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    Default Re: LPG geyser SANS regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stekel View Post
    Thanks for the info, dont get me wrong, I am not trying to argue my way around the law, It just seems like there are loopholes in the gas installation law. Maybe it only seems that way to me since I have not read the SANS yet.

    You mention that you need a registered engineer? Is this just a figure of speech or do you have to be a PrEng to be able to issue a COC? (Just for interest sake)
    You can go two routes, have a DoL (Dept of Labour) registered gas practitioner (read installer) design and sign off the work or have a Pr. Eng. do the same. The gas practitioner will certify your gas installation complies with SANS 10087 whilst the Engineer will certify the building components (the gas installation and ventilation) complies with the National Building Regulations which is deemed to include SANS 10087.
    Last edited by mygoggie; 2018/05/03 at 03:40 PM.

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    Default Re: LPG geyser SANS regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stekel View Post
    I need some hot water in my maids bathroom and bought a 10l gas geyser. I know there are humorous regulations and you need a COC...but why?
    "Humorous regulations" - that's a gas! (sorry)
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  18. #17

    Default Re: LPG geyser SANS regulation

    Quote Originally Posted by An3s View Post
    "Humorous regulations" - that's a gas! (sorry)
    Looks like you’re having a “blast”

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