Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system





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    Default Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    This might be a completely stupid question & comparison, but here goes:

    I have been looking at getting a wide angle zoom lens for my DSLR, (Nikon, but brand mostly irrelevant for my question). For what it's worth at present I have old film era 35-135mm plus 28mm lenses. (I have long lenses for wildlife etc but that also not relevant). I have been looking at the Tokina 11-20mm f2.8, Tamron 10-24mm f3.5-f4.5 and then the Nikon offerings of around the same focal lengths, but if I had to buy it will probably be one of the 1st 2, due to price, possible usage, value for money etc. USA prices are up to $500. Purpose would be mostly for landscape, with the odd close-up (but not macro) type photo, i.e. flower in front in focus with big whatever background out of focus. No star-trails etc, although early mornings & evenings with the odd extended exposure.

    However...a few threats and videos had me thinking - would a mirrorless system not give me the same capabilities, but also more possible usages?
    See: http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/...85-Mirror-less

    Also, I have been looking for a lens/compact camera set-up for travel (city & nature), but without multiple lenses (I know the 35-135 covers a lot of that though), but also when one goes hiking or other outdoor activity, something that is not so bulky but which still takes DSLR quality photos. I have a Fujifilm WP camera but not impressed with its above water photo or video quality.


    I was considering one of the better Canon P&S e.g. Powershot G7X or similar, but still want DSLR type quality and I don't know if they can give you that. Also when one travels on holiday, going to Moz, (overseas?) etc, something that is smaller to use but also not the same value as my car. I again researched this topic over the last few days, as I have family coming over from the US that can bring me "a small item!', so saw this clip:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwAm5A52ELw ; which got me thinking about this again...

    I see on the B&H website, and I assume these are entry level systems, one can get an Olympus (OM-D E-10 Mark III with 14-42mm lens) for $724, the Mark II with the 14-42mm plus 40-150mm lens for $778; Panasonic (DMC GX 85) with 12-32mm lens for $598. Fujifilm seems to be around the $1000 mark.

    Nikon does not seem big on this yet, which is a pity as I have a couple of old Nikon manual lenses. I also have a nice manual Olympus short zoom lens and I see one get adapters to fit these on the mirrorless cameras.

    So my thinking, rightly or wrongly is, won't this give me a nice, compact system, but still with DSLR type quality of photos? For about the same price as just a wide angle zoom lens? Or is it too good to be true, i.e. these entry level systems are only as good as the G7X/similar P&S, or one needs lots of other accessories, etc? I know there is also the multiplying factor to consider, so 14mm is not really 14mm, which might be the big issue?

    I know there are excellent and very knowledgeable photographers on the forum, some shooting with both formats or who might have considered the above or swopped over or have both, so I would appreciate your input on this conundrum please. Or as they say in Afrikaans, "sit ek nou die pot heeltemal mis"??! You may be brutal, I have a thick skin!
    Last edited by walkabout; 2018/04/17 at 04:09 PM.
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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    A couple of guys I know use Sony RX100R's for this role, and are extremely happy with them.

    The lens is not quite as wide (I think), but it does have a built-in Pano function which makes up for that to some extent.

    I am actually considering getting something like that for my wife at some point.
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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    The mirroless DSLR substitute might be better bang for the buck than the ultrawide lenses. The 10/12mm on a crop sensor is murofa wide and as such are speciality lenses and have limited use.

    Apart from ths sidekick's bridge camera which is mirrorless, I have not used any of the interchangable lens ones so can't comment on them. I won't buy one though for reasons of my own.

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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    This is a very contentious issue and some people have very strong views on the subject.

    It depends on what you want to do, and what you can do without.

    Mirrorless with large sensor can capture some amazing images in a reasonably small package. It is excellent at taking still images at wide angles. Even moving objects are OK at wide angles.

    It is absolutely useless at taking moving images (tracking) at longer focal lengths, anything more than 70mm is just an exercise in frustration.

    Depending on how those capabilities/limitations fit into your requirements will give you an idea of how well it will work for you.

    That Sony Peter referred is also amazing but little bit pricey.
    Last edited by MarcR; 2018/04/17 at 08:23 PM.
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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    I have been looking at the Fuji kit, and it is really amazing, a totally different shooting experience. Several PE photographers have switched over from DSLR to this, but there is one common factor, none of them ever shoot anything that moves.

    In quite a few reviews I read was it mentioned that the mirrorless systems are brilliant for static objects, portraits, landscapes etc, but the focussing systems cannot yet copy with the fast pace of sport shooting.

    That said, I am still really keen to get one, but would prefer to wait for Canon to release a version compatible with the lenses I have to get more use out of it.

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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    Here is my strong view.

    I Spent lots of money on "compromising" and i now know i will eventually upgrade.

    Go for propper full frame DSLR!!! everything else is a compromise. i get amazing pics with the cropped APS-C sensor 750D, but always think of how much better it could be.

    Get a EOS 6D and a 16-400 telephoto lens.

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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    Quote Originally Posted by JEEPS-RULE View Post
    Here is my strong view.

    I Spent lots of money on "compromising" and i now know i will eventually upgrade.
    I'm not going to argue with that... nobody has made a truer statement.

    All photography is just about compromise.

    It depends on what you are prepared to give up. You can never have it all.

    There is always a compromise between the factors that make up a camera purchase decision. And, the factors involved are not always straight forward with so many angles to consider.

    If we take the OP's situation we see there are at least three very plausible solutions and he will have to make the decision based on what's important to him.

    Midrange DSLR and appropriate lenses

    Good
    Excellent picture quality
    Ability to shoot moving objects
    Can be extended (lenses & gadgets)

    Bad
    Over budget
    Bulky

    Midrange P&S /Bridge camera

    Good
    Almost starting within budget
    Very compact
    So so picture quality

    Bad
    Manual functions not easy to use
    So so to shoot moving objects
    Can't be extended

    Mirrorless entry level and appropriate lenses

    Good
    Excellent picture quality
    Can be extended (lenses & gadgets)
    Reasonably compact

    Bad
    Slightly over budget
    Reasonably compact
    Difficult to shoot moving objects

    This is far from a comprehensive list... just a starting point.

    It all depends on what you want to shoot... and that changes as you get more kit or experience different opportunities. The process never ends...
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    Default Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    Hi walkabout

    No experience with mirrorless, but take my dslr with most times with 2-3 lenses.

    i Buy used or refurbished from b&h and keep your eye on Orms and odp used sections in Sa.

    Kit 18-140mm vr is a great buy used as walkabout/travel lens for your d500 for 220usd used from b&h. I still have a old 18-200vr doing this duty, but looking to replace as not sharp enough for 20mp camera’s and have to shoot around f8 to have sharp shots. Go have a look for size and weight of dx lenses. Much smaller and lighter than your old film lenses, so much better for travel and carrying around.

    I also recently got a used 70-300af-p vr dx refurbished for 180usd from b&h pre-shipping and R2500 incl Vat & shipping landed. I will sell my fx 70-300 vr-i as new lens focues so much faster and so much smaller and makes no sound when focussing. 70-200 vr i with 1.4x will do duty on my d610 fx in place of the old fx 70-300vr.

    For ultra wide on d500, look at older tokina 11-16mm f2.8. Ver i of this lens a bit cheaper is need body with af motor. Ver ii has motor in lens, so also af on cheaper bodies. No problem on your d500.

    11-16 Virtually the same as new 11-20 as you always shoot these lenses at their widest and usd400 new at b&h for ver ii or 350usd new vs 500usd for 11-20.
    Last edited by BennvdmWhk; 2018/04/18 at 06:38 AM.
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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    Thank you for all the feedback everyone. I am glad it isn't just me considering this option. RiaanvWyk I would appreciate to know your reasons why it wouldn't work for you (it's purpose is like a lot of your travel photos)? Every bit of reasoning helps one's decision.

    MarcR thank you for the detailed answers - the most important part, as also mentioned by Dirk, is the movement factor. For my intended purpose it does not affect me much, maybe the odd street scene or moving "wildlife" type subject, but I have DSLR gear if that is my main aim to shoot.

    JEEPS RULE full frame is a whole new debate and much more $$, but I agree on the compromise part, the thought came up when I considered the mirrorless crop factor, that it is maybe not wide enough for my intended purpose. (I have a whole APS-C set-up incl. the above lenses & longer to 200-500mm that works for me for now though, I just didn't want my introductory essay to be even longer!).

    BennvdmWhk thank you for your detailed answer & research. Yes I have noticed the new lenses are smaller now. [That was actually a topic of another possible thread, which of these all-in-one lenses one get nowadays are any good (I have the 1st Tamron 18-200mm which is dreadful and the same with a friend's second generation Sigma). But nowadays one also get the Nikon (& Canon) ones and Tamron & Sigma have presumably also upped their game.] But you are right, maybe I must still look around and compare the different lenses & systems, I suppose it is not that much more to order from B&H if getting good 2nd hand. I was also hovering between the Tokina 11-16 vs 11-20 & as said the Tamron.

    Decisions decisions.
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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    Quote Originally Posted by walkabout View Post
    Thank you for all the feedback everyone. I am glad it isn't just me considering this option. RiaanvWyk I would appreciate to know your reasons why it wouldn't work for you (it's purpose is like a lot of your travel photos)? Every bit of reasoning helps one's decision.
    Long story short, I am a landscape photographer foremost, shoot off tripod 99 percent of the time so weight and size is of no concern to me, in fact I would like to go over to medium format at some stage which is an even bigger camera.

    The other stuff I shoot is incidental and I make do with what I have, like a cellphone or my partner's bridge camera if I realy need to.

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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    Quote Originally Posted by walkabout View Post
    Thank you for all the feedback everyone. I am glad it isn't just me considering this option.

    Decisions decisions.
    Hi walkabout

    You linked to another thread in your original post, I posted a response with some samples from my Olympus OMD EM5 plus added the fact that I had just upgraded.

    Subsequently I went on a 16 day hiking trip in Nepal, I had the EM1 MK II with 12-100mm lens on a clip on my shoulder strap every day.
    I found it to be a huge advantage over larger bodied cameras in that it was always accessible and thus it got used more often.

    I have seen the results that folk are getting with their Olympus OM-D E-10 Mark III cameras and am quite impressed.
    Also have a look at the OMD EM 5II. It is being updated later this year and there will be sales around for sure if you intend going this route.

    The nice thing about the mirrorless system is that the camera is not a bulky item to carry around, plus if you choose wisely there are a few pancake lenses that are easily pocketable.

    Link to my Flickr profile in my signature has some more recent pics (not underwater .......).
    Last edited by AndyT; 2018/04/18 at 02:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    Quote Originally Posted by Riaan van Wyk View Post
    Long story short, I am a landscape photographer foremost, shoot off tripod 99 percent of the time so weight and size is of no concern to me, in fact I would like to go over to medium format at some stage which is an even bigger camera.

    The other stuff I shoot is incidental and I make do with what I have, like a cellphone or my partner's bridge camera if I realy need to.
    Ah ha thank you Riaan, understand. I also enjoy and appreciate your excellent photos, especially in your thread in the KZN section, so that clearly works for you.
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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    I have just sold my 100-400 canon lens as it is too bulky and heavy for me to use, replaced it with a Nikon P900 and a mono pod to keep it steady at 2000mm zoom. Very happy, now I can get the shot.

    My Canon 600D plus 104 converter and the 100-400 lens only gave me about 900mm of glass.
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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    NO question about decisions decisions and about controversy here.

    I'll just make a few general comments:

    If you are thinking a whole new system, want the possibility of upgrading to whatever is needed in terms of lens, with retained quality of images, and want to spend a bit, then I think you must consider mirrorless.
    The weaknesses of mirrorless have been mentioned, but may I caution against assuming that shooting moving objects is impossible with mirrorless.
    I shoot Professional level DSLR (Canon 1Dx2 and 5D4) alongside Fuji XT2. I recently took the Fuji to the beach to shoot birds flying to assess the possibilities: I was MASSIVELY impressed. It works, once the settings sorted. Have a look at Arthur Morris, birds as art, for an evaluation by a professional wildlife photograher.
    Long lenses in the Fuji system: no problem. I use the 'FL equivalent 70-200 /2.8 and it is SUPERB glass. I believe the longer 100-400 equivalent is similar in quality. There is recently an even newer Fuji mirrorless body out there, and I guess it could be even better than my XT2!

    Weight and size is massively reduced, cost is however still significant. (mirrorless vs DSLR).
    If you want wildlife and birds, and it seems you want decent quality, then I would definitely stick with mirrorless or SLR rather than go to compact/bridge etc cameras, although some of the bigger sensors with a long zoom offer decent IQ: Shorter zoom ranges on interchangeable lenses, with various quality points to choose, is always going to win in terms of versatility, and image quality.

    ALthough at first sight, mirrorless may appear cheaper at the same quality point as SLR, this can be misleading. For example, in the second hand market, Canon and Nikon will have lots of possibilities. Eg, a 5D3 with 400/5.6 Tele lens, at crazy low prices relative to new equivalents. Or a second hand Nikon FF 750, for example.

    In your position, I would buy second hand DSLR from reliable sources (do not get scammed on Gumtree, this is a COMMON occurrence), and I would slowly build up the lenses that I need. As your kit grows, you specialise, or find your own passion. With second hand the trade cost is not very high, and you will likely have less lenses, and a smaller kit, of what you particularly need.
    Weight will not be an issue for most if travel is by car, and you are young and strong!

    My 'complete' DSLR kit, is now down to 2 bodies (redundancy mandatory when you travel a long way to get pics!), and 3 lenses. My 4th and only other lens on occasion only.

    GOod luck. The advice not to buy cheap and then lose money is very good. Most of us with lots of high end equipment have wasted lots buying unecessary iterations previously. Save and get, second hand, what you want. Good stuff lasts for years, and besides bodies, the lenses if needed are often sold for what they were purchased for!

    Just my opinion, : )

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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    AndyT thank you for your input! I was hoping you (& Dawid Loubser) would come in here as I know you both have mirrorless systems.

    Your mentioned set-up is $3000 though and I am sure you have other lenses (& old body) as well, that then becomes a whole system switch for which I am not ready yet. My intended purpose is as said in my OP, so your hiking experience (Nepal, nice!) confirms that for me. I don't need a top of the range camera, the OM 10 Mark II or III will do it for me, as long as image quality is not comprised on. I suppose the downside is the slow f-stops of the kit lenses? So effectively DSLR quality (entry level with kit DSLR lenses equivalent I suppose) but in a P&S size package, do I understand that correctly?

    Great Flickr profile by the way, I looked at it when I read the quoted thread and now again.
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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    Thanks pwgg, I am not ready for a bridge camera yet, but it clearly works for you. My sister loves hers and also not interested in anything bigger/more fancy.

    IanK thank you for all the information. I have a (mostly) complete Nikon DSLR set up, this is really just for ultra wides and effectively for better quality images (DSLR level) in a travel camera, but contained in a smaller package, close to P&S size.

    Good to know about the Fuji XT2, even if movement shouldn't be that important for my intended purpose. I am sure the systems will improve all the time though. Will search Arthur Morris thanks.
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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    Quote Originally Posted by walkabout View Post
    My intended purpose is as said in my OP, so your hiking experience (Nepal, nice!) confirms that for me. I don't need a top of the range camera, the OM 10 Mark II or III will do it for me, as long as image quality is not comprised on. I suppose the downside is the slow f-stops of the kit lenses? So effectively DSLR quality (entry level with kit DSLR lenses equivalent I suppose) but in a P&S size package, do I understand that correctly?
    Yup pretty much so. If I did not have my old EM 5 as a second camera I would probably be buying an OM 10 Mark II or III right now for my June trip to Bots.
    I would not let the slow f-stops bother me - my 12-100 is an f4.0 lens and I have never struggled with it at all.
    In fact most of the kit lenses are pretty good.

    A point to bear in mind is that the Olympus cameras have in body image stabilisation so whatever lens you use it with will benefit.
    As you stated there are many adapters for most lenses available for these cameras.
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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    Also, Nikon should be coming out with a new mirrorless system sometime this year. Maybe good idea to wait and see what they dish up. Might be high end though i.e. expensive ..

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    Default Re: Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    OP, I see your widest lens is a 28mm? Why not just get an 18-55 kit lens, a bit more wide for the landscapes and is light and compact. Guess your setup then can't be that much bigger then than a mirrorless camera.

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    Default Wide angle zoom lens vs (entry level) Mirrorless camera system

    Quote Originally Posted by Riaan van Wyk View Post
    OP, I see your widest lens is a 28mm? Why not just get an 18-55 kit lens, a bit more wide for the landscapes and is light and compact. Guess your setup then can't be that much bigger then than a mirrorless camera.
    Thats also why I recommend the 18-140 or 18-105 vr as can also double as travel lens, but a lot bigger. For 18-55 Try to get the newest af-p or vr ii version. Af-p is newest, silent & very fast af & sharpest of the bunch. Goes for around R1400 used for vr & r1200 non vr. The better kitt lenses are bargain used.

    18-55 Version Comparison & review of af-p
    https://photographylife.com/reviews/...5mm-dx-vr-af-p
    Last edited by BennvdmWhk; 2018/04/18 at 07:30 PM.
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