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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartho View Post
    Start and stop seamlessly
    .aircon works normally and if heat inside gets above chosen setting it will restart car . No irritation at all
    Agreed, the Merc's works absolutely faultlessly and is only a bit annoying in very slow crawling traffic but on the other hand you have to keep a certain constant pressure on the brake pedal for about 2 or 3 seconds before it kicks in. Slowly crawling with my foot lightly on the brake does not activate stop and start.

    When the car does start, it is barely noticable but maybe because it is a petrol. A previous diesel CC did have a clear shudder when starting.

    I am sure it has minimal wear and tear effect and all the components would have been thoroughly tested.
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  2. #22
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartho View Post
    Start and stop seamlessly
    .aircon works normally and if heat inside gets above chosen setting it will restart car . No irritation at all
    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Eventually, somebody with more than two brain cells that isn’t living in the past.
    My Alfa's also works seamless and manages the battery and aircon excellent. But, however perfect it works, I fail to see the positive in shut down the engine for two seconds every time I come to a halt as traffic stops momentarily. Fluffy would you care to explain why this keeps me in the past?
    Luckily my Alfa has a hard switch so I can keep it switched off permanently :-)


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  3. #23
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    I cannot believe this won't cause excessive wear on the starter motor and ring gear.

    Although who cares as long as they sell the vehicle before the maintenance plan expires............
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  5. #24
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThysleRoux View Post
    Flufster, you are really turning into an abrasive old Git ....................... Where is the wise, helpful old Phart of yore?
    royal game

    some guys can say what they want
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  7. #25
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    I don't see the problem. I've had it on 3 BMW's. It is so effortless that you hardly notice it.
    Overkill - isn't!

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  9. #26
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    Start/stop vehicles have

    Uprated starters
    Larger batteries
    Fuzzy logic to make sure it's not over used

    Read through this attached VW start stop file and realise it's a well engineered system.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #27
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    Start/stop vehicles have

    Uprated starters
    Larger batteries
    Fuzzy logic to make sure it's not over used

    Read through this attached VW start stop file and realise it's a well engineered system.
    doesn't this increase cost and also carbon emissions due to extra engineering and components?
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  12. #28
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    doesn't this increase cost and also carbon emissions due to extra engineering and components?
    Since when do the bunny lovers care about the bigger picture?

    They want the car to be low on emissions when it leaves the factory. How that is achieved is above their heads seemingly.

    Same like EGR and DPF systems. I sometimes highly doubt if the short term gains by these systems is worth the rubbish it does when they fail and the complexities of making them.

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  14. #29
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    Since when do the bunny lovers care about the bigger picture?

    They want the car to be low on emissions when it leaves the factory. How that is achieved is above their heads seemingly.

    Same like EGR and DPF systems. I sometimes highly doubt if the short term gains by these systems is worth the rubbish it does when they fail and the complexities of making them.
    I get your point. Like when they buy a Prius.

    https://science.howstuffworks.com/sc...d-benefits.htm

    "In 2007, a report commissioned by an auto industry trade group insisted that when you factor in the waste generated during production, the notoriously gas-guzzling Hummer is actually greener than the Prius."

    "According to an in-depth study by the U.S. Department of Energy's Argonne National Laboratory, hybrid cars do, in fact, require more energy to produce than conventional cars, emitting more greenhouse gases and burning more fossil fuels during the manufacturing process. The production of hybrid batteries, in particular, requires much more energy than producing a standard car battery and results in higher emission levels of gases like sulfur oxide."

    You need to drive a hybrid for over 260,000kms before you get to a break-even point..........
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  16. #30
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThysleRoux View Post
    Flufster, you are really turning into an abrasive old Git ....................... Where is the wise, helpful old Phart of yore?
    Umm, very well put, and unfortunately probably quite true.

    Here’s the thing. I try my best to be positive about just about everything and helpful when I can.

    But one can only be a helpful old Phart some of the time. Sometimes life just beats you into submission and you retaliate by being an abrasive old Git.
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  18. #31
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    Default Stop/start - do you use it?

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    Since when do the bunny lovers care about the bigger picture?

    They want the car to be low on emissions when it leaves the factory. How that is achieved is above their heads seemingly.

    Same like EGR and DPF systems. I sometimes highly doubt if the short term gains by these systems is worth the rubbish it does when they fail and the complexities of making them.
    Gross generalization alert :
    The bunny hugger wants to be seen making the difference. So if they drive a prius, they appear to be environmentally friendly to their equally clueless peers.

    In my opinion if you want to be more environmentally friendly rather continue driving an old vehicle instead of stimulating demand for a new one, and instead take your house off grid ito electricity.
    But then you can't be a know it all at tea parties with peers if they don't understand big picture thinking.
    Last edited by PhlippieV; 2018/03/14 at 09:20 AM.

  19. #32
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhlippieV View Post
    Gross generalization alert :
    The bunny hugger wants to be seen making the difference. So if they drive a prius, they appear to be environmentally friendly to their equally clueless peers.
    I was referring more to the politicians higher up making the rules. Not the general populace.

    Also generalising but I fail to see how any engineer deep down will encourage EGR and DPF systems. It's a bandaid.

    There are waaaaay bigger things that need attention.

    If they were so set on emissions, why not invest more in cold fusion energy that can be used to develop hydrogen fuel cells.

    Both energies are 100% clean but nothing gets done to advance that tech on a big scale.

    Oil still runs the economy, and the economy runners don't give a hoot about bunnies.

  20. #33
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    I cannot believe this won't cause excessive wear on the starter motor and ring gear.

    Although who cares as long as they sell the vehicle before the maintenance plan expires............
    Beacause they have special starters and ring gears, and the newer ones no starters and ring gears as such.

    And they stop the engine in a position in the 4stroke cycle where it just needs a tiny little nudge to get it running again.

    People who haven’t driven these expect that each new start begins with a solenoid clicking in, followed by a starter spinning up, followed by a centrifugal bendix engaging a ring gear, followed by a second or two of engine swinging. No such thing, as some have already said here, it just comes alive, unobtrusively.

    —————-

    This is yet another example of automotive engineering where they have taken a troublesome maintenance item (starter and ring gear) and replaced it with something that has far superior performance, and will probably last forever.
    Cheers

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  22. #34
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeepiscool View Post
    My Alfa's also works seamless and manages the battery and aircon excellent. But, however perfect it works, I fail to see the positive in shut down the engine for two seconds every time I come to a halt as traffic stops momentarily. Fluffy would you care to explain why this keeps me in the past?
    Luckily my Alfa has a hard switch so I can keep it switched off permanently :-)
    You’re not honestly expecting me to answer a question like that, are you.
    Cheers

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  23. #35
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post

    And they stop the engine in a position in the 4stroke cycle where it just needs a tiny little nudge to get it running again.

    .
    That makes sense because when the stop is discontinued, it does not sound or feel the same as when starting the car. It is most definitely not the same as starting and "off" engine. I thought they put the engine in a sort of special sleep mode but your explanation clarifies the technical happenings quite well.
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  24. #36
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    I've always wondered about oil supply to the turbo...does it have an electric oil pump supplying the turbo, when the engine switches off?

  25. #37
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    I get your point. Like when they buy a Prius.

    https://science.howstuffworks.com/sc...d-benefits.htm

    "In 2007, a report commissioned by an auto industry trade group insisted that when you factor in the waste generated during production, the notoriously gas-guzzling Hummer is actually greener than the Prius."

    "According to an in-depth study by the U.S. Department of Energy's Argonne National Laboratory, hybrid cars do, in fact, require more energy to produce than conventional cars, emitting more greenhouse gases and burning more fossil fuels during the manufacturing process. The production of hybrid batteries, in particular, requires much more energy than producing a standard car battery and results in higher emission levels of gases like sulfur oxide."

    You need to drive a hybrid for over 260,000kms before you get to a break-even point..........
    That all goes about the net effect to the planet, it’s pretty neutral all in all.

    The real push for more eco friendly “running” cars, goes about keeping the air clean in the cities, and keeping the pollution contained where it can/may be dealt with.

    Oh, and the wording in that “not so scientific” report was penned by a 6 year old pseudo scientist whose dad has shares in the oil companies.
    Cheers

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  27. #38
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    Unrelated to the topic- but adding to what someone mentioned here about engineers and designing a car;

    I met a couple on my nightly jaunts down the mountain to Ndumu River Lodge who turned out to be on holiday and from Germany. And of all things the gent was an engineer for BMW. From what I understood he was in charge of the ambiance of one of the ranges, "touchy feel soundy" stuff in the cabin as he tried to explain, with fifty okes worked under him in three corners of the world. I was rather impressed.

  28. #39
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    Last edited by Roberto Betta; 2018/03/14 at 09:58 AM.

  29. #40
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    Default Re: Stop/start - do you use it?

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    Start/stop vehicles have

    Uprated starters
    Larger batteries
    Fuzzy logic to make sure it's not over used

    Read through this attached VW start stop file and realise it's a well engineered system.
    uhm ja ... nee ...


    It is one of the VW's that we use that has this technology. The engineering is good. The "application" certainly not so !

    The daily driver dont like it.

    Even as a passenger it is obvious how often it is off for 1 or 2 seconds only ....

    In the right conditions it certainly does work as designed. But often the design and the application dont gell, not yet ....

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