EB-License; Towing weights and fines...




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  1. #1
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    Default EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    Morning All;

    So, after receiving a message from my parents that they are standing next to the road and the traffic-cop is moaning about my dad not being legal on the road... I have taken a stroll to calm down, my parents are safely back on the road and after having a lovely 10-days in KNP, bar the slight blip with this (.......), is on their way home.

    The details:
    - Pulled of just outside Malelane Gate, this morning, around 08:45
    - Dad drives a 2007 Prado V6, towing a Jurgens Explorer
    - Dad has a valid and in-order EB-license and both Vehicle and Caravan licenses are up to date
    - Traffic Cop is of the opinion that my dad's combination may not exceed 3 500kg as he does not have a EC-1 license.... (see attached photo of the fine)
    Prado's GVM: 2 850kg
    Jurgens Explorer's GVM: 1 650kg
    Total GVM = 4 500kg....

    As I read / understand the law, you are allowed to tow, with a EB-license, up to a maximum of 3 500kg, permitting the trailer's GVM does not exceed the Tare (2 050kg in this instance) and is fitted with run-in brakes??

    Please help me right if I am wrong....

    Then my next question is, where do we report the Traffic Cop(Fool), for not understanding the law that he is supposed to implement?? In my opinion, he was looking for a bribe?

    How & where do we go about objecting this insane-incorrectly and unjustifiable R 1 500.00 fine.....

    Thanks in advance to the clever oaks that will take time to respond here....

    Now to try and focus on the work for the rest of the day.....

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Martinj; 2018/03/13 at 09:31 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    Phone the number on the fine

    Explain the scenario
    Take a name, date, time etc.
    Follow up with email or fax

    Follow up weekly.

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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    Thanks Marius; Appreciate the feedback.

    So the process starts to correct their incompetence....

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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    Pretty sure it will be thrown out, just the pain of getting that done.

    Anyone with some common sense can tell a Prado is not an EC class of vehicle.

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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    As I read / understand the law, you are allowed to tow, with a EB-license, up to a maximum of 3 500kg, permitting the trailer's GVM does not exceed the Tare (2 050kg in this instance) and is fitted with run-in brakes??
    The way I read it is a license will allow you to drive a certain class of vehicle, in the case of an EB you are limited to 3500kg GVM which means you may drive a vehicle with a GVM of up till 3499kg GVM to be safe. And that has nothing to do with towing, the only indication of towing on the EB license is that you may tow a trailer of 750kg GVM and higher. In other words the towing limits are defined by individual vehicle capabilities and other supplementary laws, not the the license class you hold.
    As for towing the vehicle manufacturer must have rated it to be able to tow and will allocate a GCM ( gross conbination mass) number in kg which would have been part of the homolgation process to get a vin number registered and this data would be uploaded to the Natis database. This is your first port of call for any towing related query, in your case the traffic officer was using the wrong data to issue a fine. The correct way would to be to establish the tow vehicle GCM , GVM and subtract the GVM from the GCM, this will give you what the manufacturer has rated it for towing. Then you can compare that with the trailer GVM to see if you are legal, next would be the tow vehicle tare to trailer GVM as you have stated above to be with in the limits.
    As for the fine it's self, start with contacting the head of that traffic dept, the next would be to make a submission to the clark of the court, hope this helps.
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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    Thanks for the replies guys - for a moment I thought I was the one at fault and missed some changes....

    Parents are making good progress and will start to sort tomorrow..

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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    Quote Originally Posted by Martinj View Post
    Thanks for the replies guys - for a moment I thought I was the one at fault and missed some changes....

    Parents are making good progress and will start to sort tomorrow..
    Hello Martin

    I got this from https://www.gov.za/services/driving-...riving-licence

    Code EB: This is for a:
    • light motor vehicle that is articulated (light motor vehicle drawing a trailer) with a gross combination mass not exceeding 3 500 kg. You must be 18 years or older to apply
    • combination of a motor vehicle with a tare not exceeding 3 500 kg and a minibus, bus or goods vehicle with a gross vehicle mass not exceeding 3 500 kg. You must be 18 years or older to apply.

    Hope this clarifies the issue and that your make reaches home safely.
    Regards
    Henry

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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    simple scenarios:
    Scenario 1
    Tow vehicle GVM 2800kg and CVM 4801kg
    Trailer : GVM 1800kg

    Scenario 2
    Tow vehicle GVM 2800kg and CVM 4000kg
    Trailer : GVM 1800kg

    Scenario 3
    Tow vehicle GVM 3500kg and CVM 7001kg
    Trailer : GVM 3500kg

    Scenario 4
    Tow vehicle GVM 3500kg and CVM 10501kg
    Trailer : GVM 7000kg

    Scenarios one, three and four are valid, two is not.

    EB allow articulated vehicle up to 3500kg(trailer on a fifth wheel) and a braked trailer exceeding 750kg if the trailer weight and combined vehicle weight falls within the vehicle specifications. Articulated should not be confused with vehicle + trailer. A prado and caravan is not an articulated rig.

    Edit to add:
    Scenario 4 is an extreme example and I do not know of any vehicle(GVM3500kg and under) rated to tow more than 3500kg in SA
    Last edited by Tanrack; 2018/03/13 at 01:50 PM.
    I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.

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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanrack View Post
    Scenario 2
    Tow vehicle GVM 2800kg and CVM 4000kg
    Trailer : GVM 1200kg
    National Road Traffic Act
    EB
    A motor vehicle, excluding a motor cycle, motortricycle, motor quadrucycle, tractor and a motorvehicle which is a type of mobile agricultural orindustrial equipment or machinery not designedprincipally for the conveyance of persons orgoods, being—
    (i) an articulated motor vehicle, of which thegross combination mass of the truck-tractordoes not exceed 3 500 kilograms;
    (ii) a combination of—
    (aa) a motor vehicle the tare of which doesnot exceed 3 500 kg; or
    (bb) a minibus, bus or goods vehicle, thegross vehicle mass of which does notexceed 3 500 kilograms,
    with a trailer the gross vehicle mass of whichexceeds 750 kilograms.
    Last edited by LouisF; 2018/03/13 at 02:21 PM.

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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanrack View Post
    simple scenarios:
    Scenario 1
    Tow vehicle GVM 2800kg and CVM 4801kg
    Trailer : GVM 1800kg

    Scenario 2
    Tow vehicle GVM 2800kg and CVM 4000kg
    Trailer : GVM 1800kg

    Scenario 3
    Tow vehicle GVM 3500kg and CVM 7001kg
    Trailer : GVM 3500kg

    Scenario 4
    Tow vehicle GVM 3500kg and CVM 10501kg
    Trailer : GVM 7000kg

    Scenarios one, three and four are valid, two is not.

    EB allow articulated vehicle up to 3500kg(trailer on a fifth wheel) and a braked trailer exceeding 750kg if the trailer weight and combined vehicle weight falls within the vehicle specifications. Articulated should not be confused with vehicle + trailer. A prado and caravan is not an articulated rig.

    Edit to add:
    Scenario 4 is an extreme example and I do not know of any vehicle(GVM3500kg and under) rated to tow more than 3500kg in SA
    Only scenario 1 is legal.
    Remember the tare rule or service brakes.
    If the trailers in your scenarios are fitted with service brakes instead off run in brakes then you are correct.

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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanrack View Post
    simple scenarios:
    Scenario 1
    Tow vehicle GVM 2800kg and CVM 4801kg
    Trailer : GVM 1800kg

    Scenario 2
    Tow vehicle GVM 2800kg and CVM 4000kg
    Trailer : GVM 1800kg

    Scenario 3
    Tow vehicle GVM 3500kg and CVM 7001kg
    Trailer : GVM 3500kg

    Scenario 4
    Tow vehicle GVM 3500kg and CVM 10501kg
    Trailer : GVM 7000kg

    Scenarios one, three and four are valid, two is not.

    EB allow articulated vehicle up to 3500kg(trailer on a fifth wheel) and a braked trailer exceeding 750kg if the trailer weight and combined vehicle weight falls within the vehicle specifications. Articulated should not be confused with vehicle + trailer. A prado and caravan is not an articulated rig.

    Edit to add:
    Scenario 4 is an extreme example and I do not know of any vehicle(GVM3500kg and under) rated to tow more than 3500kg in SA
    I disagree, what is CVM ? or do you mean GCM, there are no tare values included to work with, thus your whole post makes no sense.
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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    Hope this helps Click image for larger version. 

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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    Quote Originally Posted by patrick miller View Post
    Hope this helps Click image for larger version. 

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    That is so clear that even the traffic cop would understand it. Suggest that anybody with a trailer or caravan prints this out and stick it in the cubby hole in case you also end with and uninformed c(h)op.
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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    EB = a rigid vehicle up to 3500kg, towing a trailer of more than 750kg.
    So max combined weight of 7tons. Correct?
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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    Last edited by Henris; 2018/03/19 at 07:20 AM.
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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    Interressant, as ek jou post quote, is post daar in pre-post venster
    Last edited by Prof; 2018/03/19 at 07:22 AM.

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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hedgehog View Post
    So max combined weight of 7tons. Correct?
    The gross weight of the trailer may not exceed the empty weight of the car when only overrun brakes are fitted to the trailer. A Land Rover is certified to tow 3500kg trailers but, since the empty weight of the Landie is 1770kgs the gross weight of the trailer may not exceed 1770kgs without service (power-driven) brakes being fitted to the trailer.

    Applying this to the start of the thread the combination is legal as long as the empty weight (TARE) of the Prado is greater than 1650KGs, since that is the gross weight of the trailer.

    It would certainly be nice if the original victims in this thread, those picked upon by yhr fool of a traffic officer, could have theit day in court and bring some well-deserved ridicule onto the head of the traffic cop, but when they indicate their intention to defend, the matter will come before a senior prosecutor who will throw the thing into a bucket rather than bring embarrasment onto the province's traffic department.
    Last edited by Fyko; 2018/03/19 at 08:46 AM.

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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    The problem is which source the traffic cop will believe:

    If you read the SA government's interpretation of the EB towing restriction, it gives a picture much different than what many local South African auto advocacy websites indicate: (http://www.transport.gov.za/web/depa...riving-licence)
    "Code EB: This is for a light motor vehicle that is articulated (light motor vehicle drawing a trailer) with a gross combination mass not exceeding 3500kg."


    And the actual EB regulation is as follows:
    "A motor vehicle, excluding a motor cycle, motor tricycle, motor quadrucycle, tractor and a motor vehicle which is a type of mobile agricultural or industrial equipment or machinery not designed principally for the conveyance of persons or goods, being—
    (i) an articulated motor vehicle, of which the gross combination mass of the truck-tractor does not exceed 3 500 kilograms;
    (ii) a combination of—
    (aa) a motor vehicle the tare of which does not exceed 3 500 kg; or
    (bb) a minibus, bus or goods vehicle, the gross vehicle mass of which does not exceed 3 500 kilograms,
    with a trailer the gross vehicle mass of which exceeds 750 kilograms."

    Definition:
    (ii) "articulated motor vehicle" means a combination of motor vehicles consisting of atruck-tractor and a semi-trailer;


    Unfortunately the law is badly written and ambiguous

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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    Just keep in mind that at some stage Toyota limited some of its vehicles, including Prados to only tow up to 1.5t, despite the tare mass of the vehicle.

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    Default Re: EB-License; Towing weights and fines...

    Quote Originally Posted by vnitos View Post
    Just keep in mind that at some stage Toyota limited some of its vehicles, including Prados to only tow up to 1.5t, despite the tare mass of the vehicle.

    The Prado in question is a Prado 120, it will have a towing capacity of 2,5 t. The issue was only with the D4-d 150 Prado's where towing capacity was limited to 1,5 t but it was changed back to 2.5 t again later.
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