Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass





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  1. #1
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    Default Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    Hi

    I have had the ctek 250 dual in my hilux for a couple years. I also have the victron battery monitor to see exactly what is happening in terms of charge and discharge. It does work. But in practice doesn't suit my needs and can't see how it suits any others..

    I understand the battery determines the charge current (stand to be corrected) , but I want FULL charge possible whenever the car is running. Even if that means damaging the battery. I can't understand guys protecting a battery on a R60k trip to have warm beers and spoilt meat. I have run my deep cycle gel battery flat (10v odd ish) and took almost 14 hours to charge. My trip home....

    I bought the smartpass at the same time but never installed it due to wanting to test the 250...

    Please can anyone that has installed the smartpass let me know if it's worth it or should I rather choose another option?

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    Quote Originally Posted by getoutahere View Post
    Hi

    I have had the ctek 250 dual in my hilux for a couple years. I also have the victron battery monitor to see exactly what is happening in terms of charge and discharge. It does work. But in practice doesn't suit my needs and can't see how it suits any others..

    I understand the battery determines the charge current (stand to be corrected) , but I want FULL charge possible whenever the car is running. Even if that means damaging the battery. I can't understand guys protecting a battery on a R60k trip to have warm beers and spoilt meat. I have run my deep cycle gel battery flat (10v odd ish) and took almost 14 hours to charge. My trip home....

    I bought the smartpass at the same time but never installed it due to wanting to test the 250...

    Please can anyone that has installed the smartpass let me know if it's worth it or should I rather choose another option?

    Thanks
    i have to assume that you know what the Smartpass does.

    One of the very negative attributes of the 250 is the 20A limit. So if you are running a few loads, say 10A while driving, only 10A is available for the battery when charging.

    The Smartpass is smart (go figure). During charging it allows the full 20A, and this is important, at full charge voltage, to charge the battery, and bypasses the extra current needed for the load to the load instead of stealing from the 20A.

    If you already have one. Install it. If you are reading this and think you need this. Save yourself a few thousand Rand and buy a charger that does this for nothing out of the box.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    NA TwinTurbo SuperCharger
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

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  4. #3
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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    Does the smartishpass not increase that 20A limit? For argument sake, with no other stuff drawing, does it charge at a greater amp?

    As space is always an issue, I don't understand why anyone would install both...

    If you had both would you use them?

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    Quote Originally Posted by getoutahere View Post
    Does the smartishpass not increase that 20A limit? For argument sake, with no other stuff drawing, does it charge at a greater amp?

    As space is always an issue, I don't understand why anyone would install both...

    If you had both would you use them?
    No, it is what it says. A Smartpass.

    So instead of sharing the 20A between the battery and the loads. It ensures the whole 20A is available to charge the battery and bypasses (get it ) the current required for the loads around the 250 (Smart ne - get it )

    In practice, it is intended for those systems where you have say two or three fridges or some other heavy consumer.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    NA TwinTurbo SuperCharger
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

  6. #5
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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    So in my case it's useless.....

    What's the best way to send the highest possible charge to a secondary batt?

    Anyone Wana buy a not so smartpass smartpass.....

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    The Smartpass actually allows 80A of current to the battery. When this drops to the Dual current of 20A, te Dual wil go through it's charging cycle. Like Fluffy said, it also isolates the load (fridges etc) from the charge current.

    Some suppliers claim that the max battery charge current is actually 20A +80A =100A. Their documentation is not specific about this.

    This is from their user manual:
    The Smart Pass separates the two battery banks when the engine is off. With the engine on, the alternator charges the service battery with its maximum current until it has tapered off to the D250S Dual max level. Then the D250S DUAL charger finalize the charge. The recharge time is minimized. Solar panels are easily integrated and synchronized if a D250S Dual is used together with the Smart Pass.

    Install yours. It will speed up your charging.


  8. #7
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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeml View Post
    The Smartpass actually allows 80A of current to the battery. When this drops to the Dual current of 20A, te Dual wil go through it's charging cycle. Like Fluffy said, it also isolates the load (fridges etc) from the charge current.

    Some suppliers claim that the max battery charge current is actually 20A +80A =100A. Their documentation is not specific about this.

    This is from their user manual:
    The Smart Pass separates the two battery banks when the engine is off. With the engine on, the alternator charges the service battery with its maximum current until it has tapered off to the D250S Dual max level. Then the D250S DUAL charger finalize the charge. The recharge time is minimized. Solar panels are easily integrated and synchronized if a D250S Dual is used together with the Smart Pass.

    Install yours. It will speed up your charging.
    For the morning.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    NA TwinTurbo SuperCharger
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

  9. #8
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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    Thanks. I'll put it in and let you know otherwise victron says..

  10. #9
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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    Just had a look at their website about more detailed info on the Smartpass unit:


    • Battery separation eliminates diodes and VSR relays
    • Delivers 80A for quick recharge of batteries 28-500Ah
    • Compatible with DUAL D250S and delivers up to 100A charge together with D250S Dual
    • Prioritizing critical consumers and supplies consumers directly from the alternator


    So it seems that it will deliver up to 100A to the batteries, if the alternator can deliver this. The 100A is probably the total of battery charge and the load.

    I connected mine without the load terminal connected, as I manage my connected devices separately. If the maximum combination charge is limited to 20A only, I would have to remove my unit.

    I was also unaware that you could use the smartpass independently without the D250S


  11. #10
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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    I have a powerpoint slideshow that shows you exactly how the 250s and smartpass work together in various stages of operation.
    Send me a pm with your e-mail address and I will send it on to you.

    I have had mine installed for a few years, everything seems to work Ok BUT if you are going to run your fridge off the smartpass as a "consumer" it will cut out when your second battery reaches 11.5 volts.
    Not usually a problem for me as I normally camp in the cooler months of the year and also drive enough each day to use the alternator as well as solar - but your scenario may be different.
    Safe Diving - Andy

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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    Tx Andy. Your info clears this up.

    So the D250S plus smartpass will deliver 100A to the aux batteries, plus supply power to the "non-critical" consumers terminal. Do you know what the max current through consumers terminal is possible when 100A is used for charging the batteries?


  13. #12
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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    The smart pass will be limited to the alternator's output, if less than the 80 or 100 what ever it is. So what ever the alternator's output is, till the ctek 250 takes over at 80% ? charge state.
    Last edited by JLK; 2018/02/18 at 07:36 PM.
    Johan Kriel

  14. #13
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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    Has any body actually measured the output of the smartishpass in amps?

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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    Quote Originally Posted by getoutahere View Post
    Has any body actually measured the output of the smartishpass in amps?
    I doubt that will help you much.

    It will be different for different vehicles and systems, all with varying cable lengths, cable thicknesses, battery types and sizes. A typical deep cycle battery of say 200Ah and charging at 80A to 100A will soon reach 14V and then the current will be dropped rapidly by the Ctek system to control gassing.

    Perhaps if you have a marine application with a powerful alternator and 800Ah of deep cycle batteries, but that is not your typical 4x4 forum camper.
    Eggie.

    "Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
    - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    If you already have one. Install it. If you are reading this and think you need this. Save yourself a few thousand Rand and buy a charger that does this for nothing out of the box.
    Iím exactly in that boat, I have the D250s and considering the additional smartpass. Any suggestions for a out of the box solution that can charge at 30A or more? Iíd like to have one unit that can do everything the D250s can at more amps and keep the D250s as a spare.

    Also something else Iíve been wondering about, has anyone tested the amp output of the D250s at high temperatures? My aux battery and charger is mounted in the engine bay, working good enough so far, no problems. But Iím curious with how much the D250s automatically adjusts the amps sent to the aux battery under high heat conditions, like when youíre driving in the middle of the Namib on a scorching summer day? Would a smartpass then even do anything if the D250s automatically sends out less than 20A?

  17. #16
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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    I would not bother about a smart pass for a 100Ah battery. The smart pass will probably do nothing anyway on such a battery setup. The smart pass is for bulk charge, on a larger battery bank where you need more than 20 amps, and where the batteries can take more amps also.

    The 250 on its own can bulk charge a 100Ah battery within within an hour or two, connected to a 60l fridge.

    Yes there are many report on the ctek 250 and heat in the engine bay. Mine never had an issue in the engine bay. Might be a matter where the battery is situated also.
    Johan Kriel

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  19. #17
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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    I had issues charging 2 x 105AHr flat batteries with just the D250 in my Defender. It probably would have been fine with just one x 105Ahr battery.

    The solution was a "manual smartpass" - I simply bridged out the input and output terminals on the D250 with a big solenoid and switch. This effectively allowed the batteries to get more than the 20A restriction. Once the current was less than 20A, I disabled the solenoid. You can short these terminals out on the D250 without ill effects.

    I also used change-over relays to switch off my 12V aux loads (fridges, radio etc) from the aux batteries to the main battery, ensuring that the full 20A available charge current went to the Aux batteries as soon as the alternator was charging


  20. #18
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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    Quote Originally Posted by JLK View Post
    I would not bother about a smart pass for a 100Ah battery. The smart pass will probably do nothing anyway on such a battery setup. The smart pass is for bulk charge, on a larger battery bank where you need more than 20 amps, and where the batteries can take more amps also.

    The 250 on its own can bulk charge a 100Ah battery within within an hour or two, connected to a 60l fridge.

    Yes there are many report on the ctek 250 and heat in the engine bay. Mine never had an issue in the engine bay. Might be a matter where the battery is situated also.
    You say you can charge/bulk charge a 100ah battery in 2 hours... I beg to differ. I have watched the rate of charge of the 250 on numerous occasions using the victron and can take anything up to 12 hours or more to charge.. Even with 2 game drives a day, of a couple hours, the system looses. The charge starts at 19.9 amps and drops off after a couple minutes to 4-5amps. No matter how flat the battery is. Highly irritating.

    Originally thought it was because of the heat in the engine bay but I've tested from richtersveld to frosty mornings in the free state. Same thing.

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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    Quote Originally Posted by getoutahere View Post
    You say you can charge/bulk charge a 100ah battery in 2 hours... I beg to differ. I have watched the rate of charge of the 250 on numerous occasions using the victron and can take anything up to 12 hours or more to charge.. Even with 2 game drives a day, of a couple hours, the system looses. The charge starts at 19.9 amps and drops off after a couple minutes to 4-5amps. No matter how flat the battery is. Highly irritating.

    Originally thought it was because of the heat in the engine bay but I've tested from richtersveld to frosty mornings in the free state. Same thing.
    Not my experience. A smartpass will also not solve that problem How good is your battery still?
    Johan Kriel

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    Default Re: Ctek 250 upgrade to smartpass

    Ive installed a 250 and smartpass in my Bush lapa using two vehicles to tow. Vehicle A with 35sqr cable to tow hitch, vehicle B with 16sqr cable.
    Working perfect on vehicle A but on B, the voltage drop below 12.8 the moment you start pulling serious amps and smartpass kicks our.
    Need to upgrade B now to 35sqr.

    Lesson learn which make sense, ensure you are running proper cable between smartpass and alternator especially over distance.
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