Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution





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    Default Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Solareff's recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solution for a small-scale agri application consisting of a 9,75kWp solar PV array, one Victron Quattro inverter and lithium-ion 16kWh batteries with generator back-up.

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    Solareff - Solar PV Specialists
    www.solareff.co.za
    [email protected]
    011 675 1114

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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Dif View Post
    Solareff's recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solution for a small-scale agri application consisting of a 9,75kWp solar PV array, one Victron Quattro inverter and lithium-ion 16kWh batteries with generator back-up.

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    Very nice.

    Must have cost a few pennies.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
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    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

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    Dif

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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Dif View Post
    Solareff's recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solution for a small-scale agri application consisting of a 9,75kWp solar PV array, one Victron Quattro inverter and lithium-ion 16kWh batteries with generator back-up.

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    Baie netjies Dif!

    Sal graag wil weet watter grootte batterye julle gebruik het om julle battery banke op te maak!
    En nog meer interresant wat dit gekos het
    Dit moet nogal 'n klomp geld gewees het.
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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Goeie more.

    Dankie vir die kompliment Serieslr. Ek sal maar in Engels antwoord sodat almal die syfers verstaan.


    The battery is a 16kWh Li-ion with guarantee up to 7000cycles to 90% DOD. So you'll appreciate that even the batteries could last 20 years here.

    The total system cost incl VAT was R500k. This is unfortunately the cost to be truly off-grid.

    It also has a 10.4kW generator for the "Geelperskereen" season we had last week.

    And if anyone was thinking to rant about the price...... would that R600k Fortuner save you money long term and last 20 years also?



    Quote Originally Posted by serieslr View Post
    Baie netjies Dif!

    Sal graag wil weet watter grootte batterye julle gebruik het om julle battery banke op te maak!
    En nog meer interresant wat dit gekos het
    Dit moet nogal 'n klomp geld gewees het.
    Last edited by Dif; 2017/12/11 at 07:39 AM.

    Solareff - Solar PV Specialists
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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Impressive!!!!!

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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Hi Dif,

    How does the Victron Quattro manage the PV?


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    Wink Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Dif View Post

    And if anyone was thinking to rant about the price...... would that R600k Fortuner save you money long term and last 20 years also?
    This has always been my same urgument. R250K will get a pretty decent domestic grid tied system, and, not completely off grid, but nearly, and drastically reduce your monthly electricity bill. It will also last longer than a car, require very little running costs or maintenance, and increase the value of your property.

    Yet people will rather spend that buying a luxury car when a more modest car will be just fine, or think nothing of spending twice that on a third or fourth car that really isn't necessary.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
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    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Impressive !
    Gabriel Erasmus


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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Hi Wetkit.

    Your question is somewhat succinct but let me explain a normal day in the life of a PV system:

    At sunset the batteries feed the load and discharges overnight.
    From sunrise, the PV slowly starts adding to the mix to slow the discharging.
    A little later on, the when the Generation exceeds the load, the batteries start charging.
    Dependent on the Depth of Discharge and the daily solar irradiance, the batteries would be full sometime between 10h00 and 14h00.
    Once the batteries are full, the inverter feeds the solar generation directly to the load until the sun starts setting and the cycle repeats.

    The Victron is programmable with many settings whereby you could set the Genset to auto start should the battery not have enough capacity it foresees for the night ahead - thereby the battery could be kept at a level of charge sufficient to have a quiet night.

    As for "managing" the PV, there are two MPPT's (Maximum Power Point Trackers - the two smaller blue units on the pictures) which tracks and optimizes the solar irradiation and feeds that to the system.

    I hope this explanation helps.



    Quote Originally Posted by Wetkit View Post
    Hi Dif,

    How does the Victron Quattro manage the PV?

    Solareff - Solar PV Specialists
    www.solareff.co.za
    [email protected]
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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Yes, it is the MPPT info I am after.
    Those units looks extremely small for about 5kw each?
    Can the Victron unit do other voltage than 48V?
    9kw is just about 180Amps on 48V...


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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Dif View Post
    Hi Wetkit.

    Your question is somewhat succinct but let me explain a normal day in the life of a PV system:

    At sunset the batteries feed the load and discharges overnight.
    From sunrise, the PV slowly starts adding to the mix to slow the discharging.
    A little later on, the when the Generation exceeds the load, the batteries start charging.
    Dependent on the Depth of Discharge and the daily solar irradiance, the batteries would be full sometime between 10h00 and 14h00.
    Once the batteries are full, the inverter feeds the solar generation directly to the load until the sun starts setting and the cycle repeats.

    The Victron is programmable with many settings whereby you could set the Genset to auto start should the battery not have enough capacity it foresees for the night ahead - thereby the battery could be kept at a level of charge sufficient to have a quiet night.

    As for "managing" the PV, there are two MPPT's (Maximum Power Point Trackers - the two smaller blue units on the pictures) which tracks and optimizes the solar irradiation and feeds that to the system.

    I hope this explanation helps.
    I'm a real fan of Victron and the Quattros are excellent.
    You can even achieve the same setup as above with a PV inverter on the local side of the Victron.
    Obviously intended for grid-tie installations.
    It changes the output frequency to signal the PV that it must generate more or less power.
    (https://www.victronenergy.com/live/ac_coupling:start)
    In my case I have a SMA Sunnyboy PV and Victron at home combined functioning with the same logic as Dif explained.
    My setup is not complete yet, but the one at my collegue has been running about 2 years like that.
    There are limitations where the PV must not exceed the power of the Victron combined.
    In our case it is programmed with special firmware for increased self-consumption, where extra power is not pushed back into the grid and at night it runs off batteries.
    The Victron has a healthy built-in battery charger if your setup uses a PV inverter and not MPPT.

    We supplied a handful of 2kW Victrons to farmers in really remote places in the Karoo and they did a DIY install.
    Where the Chinese makes have been killed long time ago the Victron takes any load.
    If that Victron is rated 4 kW, it can power 4 kW 24/7 without falling over in really hot conditions.

    With the Quattro it's really nice the management of the GenSet and completely separate input into the inverter.
    No extra contactors or ATFs needed.

    Disclaimer: This is just one of my hobbies, so don't do this for a living. Just happen to have done a fair amount of research about it.
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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Baie, Baie nice

    Kan jy dalk so paar fotos van die batterye opsit asseblief, asook bietjie meer detail oor hulle (waar gekoop, of self gemaak, en ook wat binne daai boks is - dalk 18650's?)
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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Wetkit View Post
    Yes, it is the MPPT info I am after.
    Those units looks extremely small for about 5kw each?
    Can the Victron unit do other voltage than 48V?
    9kw is just about 180Amps on 48V...
    We used the 250/85 MPPT's - So DC string voltage could be up to 250V.

    Solareff - Solar PV Specialists
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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    The point about R600k car vs solar power is valid, BUT, It would really be helpful, for somebody to put together a list of all the equipment required, including cost, to take an average 3 bed , 4 person house off grid..would I be correct to say a 8kw setup would cost approximately 1/2 of a 16kw setup. There is so much conflicting info out there, the layman is too confused/ scared to invest in what could be a total disaster. Just list a good kit, not junk, not the best of breed, but good for the next 20 yrs.
    Last edited by NewLandy; 2017/12/31 at 05:51 PM.

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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Quote Originally Posted by NewLandy View Post
    The point about R600 car vs solar power is valid, BUT, It would really be helpful, for somebody to put together a list of all the equipment required, including cost, to take an average 3 bed , 4 person house off grid..would I be correct to say a 8w setup would cost approximately 1/2 of a 16kw setup. There is so much conflicting info out there, the layman is too confused/ scared to invest in what could be a total disaster. Just list a good kit, not junk, not the best of breed, but good for the next 20 yrs.
    Hi Newlandy.

    To add some perspective to your question - I recently installed a similar system at my own house in Mossel Bay.

    My system has the following items:
    8.9kWp Glass/glass Solar array;
    2 x 250/85 MPPT
    8kW Victron Inverter
    10kWh BYD Li-ion battery
    (plus all the engineering design, artisan, monitoring, metering niceties and safety equipment - which people often neglect when budgeting)

    Total system cost incl VAT would be R370k.

    So you unfortunately, especially with custom engineered grid interactive systems, apply a simple rule of division of the cost based only on the solar array.

    My system is grid-interactive meaning that although I have storage, my system is constantly connected to the grid for those rainy days and to take up excess load.

    As a side note my house runs 3 conventional geysers.

    My total consumption from the grid since 1 December was a mere 59.66kWh - So I expect to buy prepaid power of only R244.00 for the whole month!



    We took a client off-grid within the Tshwane metro this week with a similar consumption than my house for R540k - due to the larger battery bank required as he wouldn't have the grid for the rainy days like I do.


    To address your fear of the layman investment, your concerns are perfectly valid. There are many rogue installers out there. Many migrated from the former solar geyser market into the PV market - Plumbers doing Electrics!! I respect each trade but as the saying goes: "Skoenmaker hou jou by jou lees."

    A good place to start finding reputable installers is the industry association SAPVIA www.sapvia.co.za. Within industry we launched the PV GreenCard program (I was the chairperson of the steering committee) which vets installers regarding quality assurance. From this you would be guided to the properly trained suppliers who would refuse to budge on quality. Obviously Solareff is also one as I took some of the lead on the program and we work nationally.

    You're most welcome to make further enquiries. We are also going into slow motion for the next few weeks

    Should you be interested, please contact Julian Nel at our office direct: [email protected]
    Last edited by Dif; 2017/12/14 at 05:48 AM.

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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Dif, the installation looks extremely neat and professional!

    I have some solar panels at home running grid tie inverters, no batteries. We have a large array at work, also grid tied, no batteries. I have been reviewing the financial returns of both installations for the last two years. On average, over a complete year in Jhb, you can expect 4.5 x the peak kWh production per day. At 9.75 kwhp, this equates to 43.875 kWh per day or 16 000kwh pa. At Aprox R1.30/kWh, this amounts to a saving of R20 800 pa. On an outlay of R500k, this represents a return before tax of 4.16% (this ignores any connection fees maintenance etc). This return is the same as I have discovered on my own installation and at work, however due to no batteries the return is closer to 8%. ( less cost outlay)
    The after tax cost is where things get interesting. Where one has the a tax base and the ability to write off the installation for tax purposes (I have been advised the tax write off is 100% in the first year), therefore, a reduced tax payment of 28% of R500k = R140k benefit. Return then escalates to 5.8%.

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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Very cool Dif!

    Hopefully next year I'll start doing this at my spot. As a rough guestimate, what would the setup cost (obviously won't hold you to it)

    Currently I'm using between 10 and 20 units of power per day. Average 10 when I'm not using the swimming pool pump. Already have a 300L solar geyser, and my stove/oven is gas.

    You can PM if you don't want to put prices on here.


    Chris
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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Recovery View Post
    Dif, the installation looks extremely neat and professional!

    I have some solar panels at home running grid tie inverters, no batteries. We have a large array at work, also grid tied, no batteries. I have been reviewing the financial returns of both installations for the last two years. On average, over a complete year in Jhb, you can expect 4.5 x the peak kWh production per day. At 9.75 kwhp, this equates to 43.875 kWh per day or 16 000kwh pa. At Aprox R1.30/kWh, this amounts to a saving of R20 800 pa. On an outlay of R500k, this represents a return before tax of 4.16% (this ignores any connection fees maintenance etc). This return is the same as I have discovered on my own installation and at work, however due to no batteries the return is closer to 8%. ( less cost outlay)
    The after tax cost is where things get interesting. Where one has the a tax base and the ability to write off the installation for tax purposes (I have been advised the tax write off is 100% in the first year), therefore, a reduced tax payment of 28% of R500k = R140k benefit. Return then escalates to 5.8%.

    Hi Recovery.

    It is all about the purpose:
    Grid-tied = Financial benefits
    Grid-Interactive / Off-grid = Autonomy / Security of supply.

    So we don't sell the battery systems generally as an out of right financial benefit.

    But when you start playing with LCOE's it gets interesting. The LCOE of my system at home is R2.08/kWh whilst i currently pay R1.71 to the grid. The R2.08 would remain fixed for the life of the system, so after one or two Eskom increases I will be positive here and remain so for the rest of the system life ~13 years!

    Solareff - Solar PV Specialists
    www.solareff.co.za
    [email protected]
    011 675 1114

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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyades View Post
    Very cool Dif!

    Hopefully next year I'll start doing this at my spot. As a rough guestimate, what would the setup cost (obviously won't hold you to it)

    Currently I'm using between 10 and 20 units of power per day. Average 10 when I'm not using the swimming pool pump. Already have a 300L solar geyser, and my stove/oven is gas.

    You can PM if you don't want to put prices on here.
    Hi Hyades.

    Please email Julian with your requirements. I'd rather publish your price once we've done a proper design (similar to those in the thread above) than placing estimates here.

    [email protected]

    Solareff - Solar PV Specialists
    www.solareff.co.za
    [email protected]
    011 675 1114

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    Default Re: Our recently installed 9,75kWp off-grid solar PV solution

    Quote Originally Posted by Dif View Post
    Hi Hyades.

    Please email Julian with your requirements. I'd rather publish your price once we've done a proper design (similar to those in the thread above) than placing estimates here.

    [email protected]

    Awesome, thanks will do.


    Chris
    Don't blow it, this is the only planet with beer!
    HYADES

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