View Poll Results: Would you spend R20k for crank insurance?

Voters
70. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    45 64.29%
  • No

    25 35.71%
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 68
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    62
    Posts
    1,790
    Thanked: 841

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    A figure of R10k valid up to 250k km's would be a more fair in my book.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Roodepoort
    Age
    47
    Posts
    2,118
    Thanked: 248

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    From what I've read on the various freds on this, a realistic cover would be 10 years or up to 500,000 kms, only covering damage resulting from crank or bearings. If I'd buy a Disco that R20k once off would seal the deal.


    Grand Cherokee 5.7L V8
    Alfa MiTo Quadrifoglio Verde - she's a beauty!
    JKU Rubicon Pentastar (sold )
    JKU CRD (sold)
    XJ 4liter (sold )

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jeepiscool For This Useful Post:


  4. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    krugersdorp
    Age
    63
    Posts
    2,078
    Thanked: 616

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    i drive the v8 because of the reliability factor, say you pay 20k for 10 years peace of mind, that would pay for itself in the difference in my fuel bill. so it's a no brainer o do it. but the deciding factor would be how long you covered, a crank should not snap. so it has to be a huge extension period not 100k, then it is not worth it. if you don't like the d5, you going to keep your d4/3 for a good few years to come.
    2010 D4 V8 HSE
    2018 D/C CRUISER V8
    1290 KTM ADVENTURE R.

  5. #44
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Sinoville Pretoria
    Age
    64
    Posts
    846
    Thanked: 650

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groenman View Post
    A simple yes/no.

    You pay a once off insurance sum (subject to vehicle inspection paid for by the insurer) of R20k. If "it" happens - you get paid out. If not, you lose R20k but have the peace of mind.

    The policy will ONLY cover the crank failure and associated costs, no other items (thus not a full warranty). Edit: I might not have been clear, but let's extend it to the seize issue as well. As MikeBob stated - failure relating to the crank - thanks

    (There are enough posts where this "issue" has been discussed, the idea of this thread is simply to see if such a policy would attract interest)

    Edit (for more info):


    Some interesting perspectives here.

    The thinking is along the lines of having agreements in place with various centers across RSA to do a full repair at an agreed price. Obviously every instance is different but the idea is to cover the full cost of repair up to let's say give or take R120k. (With SLA's in place the Insurer will probably pay less than an individual due to volumes etc).

    Just to be clear there is no such product or in development, I am in the insurance industry so thought it would be an interesting exercise to see the appetite for such a product.

    A product will have to be clear on time frames & km's covered etc. I am not aware of any concrete stats on the failure rate (and I know it has been debated to death so not looking to open the can of worms) but to my mind it's not as high as 1 in every 6 is it? There are thousands of these vehicles on the road. So an insurer stands to make decent money IF there is a decent take-up of the warranty and the Discovery owners have peace of mind (although at an expensive price).

    Another tricky bit will be the marketing of the product because I cannot imagine that JLRSA will be too happy with a campaign pointing out the (inherent?) flaw in their vehicles.

    Another option could be a Stokvel type of arrangement between D3/4 owners/clubs themselves...
    Groeman, excellent idea and should be presented to insurers for a response. However, km have to be proven, services by recognised workshops say at least every 10 000, cover limited to say 150 000km additional to starting point, so for a 140 000km to join up, cover to be restricted to 140 000 plus 150 000km = 290 000.

    To expect more cover would be unrealistic. Cover should be for any crank related problem, nothing else and full repair cost covered

    Certainly failure rate is not close to 1 in 6 as mentioned, there are thousands of d3 and d4's
    Last edited by julius caesar; 2017/10/26 at 06:02 PM. Reason: More
    Henk Pretorius D4 3,0 SDV6 HSE

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to julius caesar For This Useful Post:


  7. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Roodepoort
    Age
    47
    Posts
    2,118
    Thanked: 248

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    I don't agree that cover should be km limited. All normal cars don't break crankshafts or seize big ends. Normal cars suffer from worn engines that eventually smoke and loose power.


    Grand Cherokee 5.7L V8
    Alfa MiTo Quadrifoglio Verde - she's a beauty!
    JKU Rubicon Pentastar (sold )
    JKU CRD (sold)
    XJ 4liter (sold )

  8. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Sinoville Pretoria
    Age
    64
    Posts
    846
    Thanked: 650

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeepiscool View Post
    I don't agree that cover should be km limited. All normal cars don't break crankshafts or seize big ends. Normal cars suffer from worn engines that eventually smoke and loose power.
    What about the heading of this thread is difficult to understand?

    And you want a limitless 100000000000000000000000000km 100 year warranty on a car?
    Henk Pretorius D4 3,0 SDV6 HSE

  9. #47
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Kenridge
    Age
    72
    Posts
    540
    Thanked: 98

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeepiscool View Post
    I don't agree that cover should be km limited. All normal cars don't break crankshafts or seize big ends. Normal cars suffer from worn engines that eventually smoke and loose power.
    No, but our Audi A4 at 125k lost it's CVT box - R150,000 to replace.
    My SIL had his Touran's turbo replaced R30,000 and now timing chain R32,000 - 2012 model.
    The lucky ones don't know about the problems on NORMAL cars.
    2005 Disco 3 TDV6


  10. The Following User Says Thank You to georgecape For This Useful Post:


  11. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Roodepoort
    Age
    47
    Posts
    2,118
    Thanked: 248

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    Quote Originally Posted by julius caesar View Post
    What about the heading of this thread is difficult to understand?

    And you want a limitless 100000000000000000000000000km 100 year warranty on a car?
    Insurance policy on a crank, which has infinite life on normal cars. Yes, I'd expect the cover to be km unlimited. Why not?


    Grand Cherokee 5.7L V8
    Alfa MiTo Quadrifoglio Verde - she's a beauty!
    JKU Rubicon Pentastar (sold )
    JKU CRD (sold)
    XJ 4liter (sold )

  12. #49
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Kemptonpark
    Age
    65
    Posts
    893
    Thanked: 80

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    I'm of the view that the policy structure will be way off the norm, simply because you have nailed the cost down to an engine replacement. I would suggest going the long block route as this would rule out any issues with suspect heads for re-use when using a sub, re cost fluctuations. It does not have to be a complicated document with all the cover my **s clauses, as proposed the engine will fail, finish and klaar and is so written in the policy. So to have a lot of red tape on servicing requirements would be of no use in my opinion. Worst case, a person who really neglects his vehicle, blows a motor, no who ha and policy pays out, and now lapses as the claim has been concluded, he will now have to reapply for a new one if he wants to keep his resale up. I'm pretty sure if such an engine replacement policy took off you would see it in after sales. So now who does he sell to, the flip side is obvious, the man with policy will command the better resale price. I see it as incentive driven from an owners perspective, an insurance company would have a different point of view on service requirements.
    2007 TDV6 S
    ARB BB and winch,BRS HD tow bar,TT and EGR's blanked,RR with dual awnings,Duel batterys,Custom long lange tank,Centre mount fridge,Custom rear box,Custom internal water tank 65Lt,Custom dash consol,Custom swing out spare wheel carrier, Adjustable 50mm suspension lift, SDV6 3Lt conversion.

  13. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Durbanville
    Age
    51
    Posts
    25
    Thanked: 5

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    To put it another way, are you prepared to pay R20 000 insurance for a potential claim costing around R120 000? If you are you are agreeing that you have a more than one in six change of you car being one of the statistics. If you are correct that your odds are better than one in six then Land Rover should really be stepping up and accepting responsibility.....

  14. #51
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Doing Time in CKGR
    Age
    64
    Posts
    406
    Thanked: 239

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    R20k for peace of mind?

    ... rather spend the money on a shrink
    Discovery 4 SDV6 SE
    Defender 130 HCPU TD5
    SOLD - D4 SDV6 HSE

  15. #52
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Randburg
    Age
    76
    Posts
    85
    Thanked: 13

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    What baffles me is that folks continue to buy these vehicles with possible known factory faults and then get lumbered with a bill of R100 K plus to fix the factory fault when the vehicle in many instances is just out of warranty..Lets face it.Bearing shells incorrectly assembled are a factory fault without any doubt and I am surprised that LR has not had a court challenge on this.Have they ever mentioned a recall to check? Not to my knowledge. In the unlikely event that I should consider one of these on my shopping list it would be with the written guarantee from LR that in the event of Crank failure LR would replace the motor regardless of mileage totally free of charge assuming proper service intervals. How many other brands do you hear of with catastrophic engine failure as regularly as LR.? Personally I do not know of one crankshaft failure ever on all the other 4X4 brands and I have had a few which were sold on with high mileages and were still running perfectly and at least three are still going with more than 500,000 on the clock and never a broken crankshaft.One Nissan Terrano and two Pajero,s.My opinion is that there are better vehicles out there for less money with most of the features and without the possible liabilities.

  16. #53
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Cape Town
    Age
    30
    Posts
    169
    Thanked: 70

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    Quote Originally Posted by itamagog View Post
    /snip My opinion is that there are better vehicles out there for less money with most of the features and without the possible liabilities.
    Please list a few...
    Thanks

  17. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to d7e7r7 For This Useful Post:


  18. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Cape Town
    Age
    49
    Posts
    131
    Thanked: 1

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    Hi

    I own a 2011 D4 which I bought in Nov 2013. 100 000 km was reached in October 2015 before the 5 year standard warranty was over. I then took out Land Rover's Extended full electrical/mechanical warranty for R28k, Innovation/Guardrisk product at LR N1 City. This is a full warranty for 2 years/ 60 000km and it does work.

    I had two door lock and ball joint issues, which was replaced. My compressor started to give warning messages now and then, this was replaced. Then my alternator broke in April 2017 and this was also replaced without hassles. So I "got back" my 28K and my car still had full warranty for two years.

    I just renewed warranty at LR N1 City for another 2 years/unlimited km for R29100. Again electrical/mechanical warranty, but to a max value of R150 000 that you can claim over the two years. So basically my second hand car has warranty for the full finance period. In fact after this two years there are another two two year pre-owned options available till about 255 000 km.

    See attached wording for the second Pre-Owned Warranty Policy from LR.

    Michael
    Attached Images Attached Images
    The Tank:

    Skid plates for front diff, gearbox and transfer case; 75mm taper body lift; Trimmed wheel arches; 265/75/R16 Bridgestone Deuler tyres; TJM snorkel; TJM XGS shocks; TJM coils; Poly airs; Tanker front steel bumper; Tanker duco rods; Tanker lateral rod; ARB front and rear diff-lock; LA Sport rear steel bumper with spare wheel carrier; LA Sport skid bars; Bushwakka drawer system; Eezi-awn rooftop tent; Front Runner roof rack; Dual battery in engine bay; National Luma freezer; Garmin GPS V

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to terraza For This Useful Post:


  20. #55
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    Pretoria
    Age
    36
    Posts
    8
    Thanked: 0

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    Yes! For the piece of mind and potential costs should it happen I definitely would.

  21. #56
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Gordon's Bay
    Age
    51
    Posts
    28,878
    Thanked: 4378

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Groenman View Post
    A simple yes/no.

    You pay a once off insurance sum (subject to vehicle inspection paid for by the insurer) of R20k. If "it" happens - you get paid out. If not, you lose R20k but have the peace of mind.

    The policy will ONLY cover the crank failure and associated costs, no other items (thus not a full warranty). Edit: I might not have been clear, but let's extend it to the seize issue as well. As MikeBob stated - failure relating to the crank - thanks

    (There are enough posts where this "issue" has been discussed, the idea of this thread is simply to see if such a policy would attract interest)

    Edit (for more info):


    Some interesting perspectives here.

    The thinking is along the lines of having agreements in place with various centers across RSA to do a full repair at an agreed price. Obviously every instance is different but the idea is to cover the full cost of repair up to let's say give or take R120k. (With SLA's in place the Insurer will probably pay less than an individual due to volumes etc).

    Just to be clear there is no such product or in development, I am in the insurance industry so thought it would be an interesting exercise to see the appetite for such a product.

    A product will have to be clear on time frames & km's covered etc. I am not aware of any concrete stats on the failure rate (and I know it has been debated to death so not looking to open the can of worms) but to my mind it's not as high as 1 in every 6 is it? There are thousands of these vehicles on the road. So an insurer stands to make decent money IF there is a decent take-up of the warranty and the Discovery owners have peace of mind (although at an expensive price).

    Another tricky bit will be the marketing of the product because I cannot imagine that JLRSA will be too happy with a campaign pointing out the (inherent?) flaw in their vehicles.

    Another option could be a Stokvel type of arrangement between D3/4 owners/clubs themselves...


    I would be very careful here.

    what you are describing is close to a Ponzi scheme (pyramid scheme)

    you are creating a fund that pays out 120k for a known and highly likely event, for a 20k buy in. you cannot call it insurance (in the same way that you cannot INSURE someone's life) because it is known the crank will fail.

    the fund collects money and pays out until the funds are depleted, and only the people who claim first can have the benefit as once the funds are depleted, the 'later' claimants are unable to claim their benefit.

    This is illegal under various financial acts in South Africa (and the rest of the world)

  22. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Roodepoort
    Age
    58
    Posts
    16,457
    Thanked: 2348

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    I'm not sure it's illegal.

    It's similar to a Tontine system, just in reverse...


    From Wikipeadia:

    A tontine (English pronunciation: /tɒntin/) is an investment plan for raising capital, devised in the 17th century and relatively widespread in the 18th and 19th centuries. It combines features of a group annuity and a lottery. Each subscriber pays an agreed sum into the fund, and thereafter receives an annuity. As members die, their shares devolve to the other participants, and so the value of each annuity increases. On the death of the last member, the scheme is wound up.

    Tontines are regulated in Europe under the Directive 2002/83/EC of the European Parliament[1] and are still common in France.[2]

    Questionable practices by US life insurers in 1906 led to the Armstrong Investigation in the United States restricting some forms of tontines. Nevertheless, in March 2017, The New York Times reported that tontines were getting fresh consideration as a way for people to get steady retirement income.[3]
    Last edited by Mad Manny; 2017/10/30 at 01:50 PM.

  23. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Cape Town
    Age
    30
    Posts
    3,207
    Thanked: 2951

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    Quote Originally Posted by itamagog View Post
    My opinion is that there are better vehicles out there for less money with most of the features and without the possible liabilities.
    R100 000 is not a lot to pay for a luxury vehicle.
    Not a lot of other vehicles for that money can offer you that comfort etc.

    If only it wasn't for that small issue
    Always think: Could this be sarcasm?

    André Opperman

  24. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Centurion
    Age
    33
    Posts
    1,666
    Thanked: 5224

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oppies3800 View Post
    R100 000 is not a lot to pay for a luxury vehicle.
    Not a lot of other vehicles for that money can offer you that comfort etc.

    If only it wasn't for that small issue
    Then again there is a very good reason that they go for R100k.

    Colleague of mine in IT just bought himself a black D3. When I mentioned the crank issue he was unaware of any problems as he did not bother to do any research. Just that he had struck a huge bargain.
    Rooies, Red, Redman (Pieter)

  25. #60
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Doing Time in CKGR
    Age
    64
    Posts
    406
    Thanked: 239

    Default Re: Would you spend R20k once off on an insurance policy for D3/4 crank?

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Vodacom.jpg 
Views:	86 
Size:	7.4 KB 
ID:	465993

    What would be interesting is to see is how many of the 54 voters are actual D3/4 owners and how they voted.
    Discovery 4 SDV6 SE
    Defender 130 HCPU TD5
    SOLD - D4 SDV6 HSE

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •