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  1. #41
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeLights View Post
    This ^^^ !!!

  2. #42
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    Well, if your lights have the E "stamp" on it, what are you all wining about. Then they are legal, as long as they conform to the legislation regarding the placement of the lights on the vehicle.

    But then also expect me to spray you with my legal LED Solctice "E" certified spots when "forget" to dim in time.

    One of my pet hates is to see a set of lights looking like a sunrise over a hill as it makes a haze in the air. I will dim bright a few times before appearing over the hill, but evidently the knuckle could not see I was warning him that we both have big lights, and I was trying to avoid being blinded. So he earns the "spot" in my face award, and I only dim after he has switched his lights off. Problem I have had, is knuckle then drives like a moth straight at me.

    None of my additional lights are even on my car at the moment. I live 25km out in the bushes, and I find my 20 year old Nissan has adequate lights for travel at 100-110km/h, to see what I need to. I am 51 years old, and worried about my eyes, but, by the sounds of the comments here, I should be more worried about some of the other toppies eye site out on the road.

    I'm done on this thread. Sounds more like people are trying to justify how to show off there accessories, and how much money they have spent, and now need justification as to why they should be allowed to twist the law.
    David/Hillbilly - 1997 SFA Nissan Sani 2,7 TD - 5" lift on 33" tires - Dual Transfer with 4.1 gears

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  4. #43
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by bfreesani View Post
    Well, if your lights have the E "stamp" on it, what are you all wining about. Then they are legal, as long as they conform to the legislation regarding the placement of the lights on the vehicle.

    But then also expect me to spray you with my legal LED Solctice "E" certified spots when "forget" to dim in time.

    One of my pet hates is to see a set of lights looking like a sunrise over a hill as it makes a haze in the air. I will dim bright a few times before appearing over the hill, but evidently the knuckle could not see I was warning him that we both have big lights, and I was trying to avoid being blinded. So he earns the "spot" in my face award, and I only dim after he has switched his lights off. Problem I have had, is knuckle then drives like a moth straight at me.

    None of my additional lights are even on my car at the moment. I live 25km out in the bushes, and I find my 20 year old Nissan has adequate lights for travel at 100-110km/h, to see what I need to. I am 51 years old, and worried about my eyes, but, by the sounds of the comments here, I should be more worried about some of the other toppies eye site out on the road.

    I'm done on this thread. Sounds more like people are trying to justify how to show off there accessories, and how much money they have spent, and now need justification as to why they should be allowed to twist the law
    .


    Exactly . I'm glad there is someone with some common sense still here.


    the law actually allows for a full Rally 6 pack of lights on the front of any vehicle - which is good for 300m of good illumination that is safe for the driver and for other road users.

    I don't actually know how much light the heroes above need, but hey. If it's good enough for Sebastian Loeb at 250km/h through a forest , I reckon the mere mortals can manage 120km/h on a highway with them.

    The laws are internationally accepted and these are based on decades of actual research as opposed to the best thumbsuck of someone's uncle from somewhere remote.

    Hundreds and hundreds of proper peer reviewed work on lights and eyes reaction to lights is available for anyone that wants to read it. I've posted many of them on the forum , but they are easily found in a google search.

    The short version is that cheap LEDs and colored lights do not provide a full spectrum of light and thus you may think you can see more, but actually you are seeing less, and messing with other road users vision too.

    If the lights are particularly blue or too bright or lack a full spectrum your eyes adjust as if it's day time, as opposed to more yellow colors so that the humans eyes adjust to nighttime. If you are in daytime 'mode' when the light suddenly dims, you go blind as your pupil cannot adjust quickly enough. a more nighttime light allows the pupil to be more open, which means you can still see in the dark around the light - handy to see those lions lying next to the fire at night as well as for driving.


    Thus the color and intensity of head lights for road use are regulated, for people's own safety, so we don't all rely on someone's uncles reassurances.

    Furthermore, they very cleverly legislated that even the brights must be diffused as the point source is more blinding to oncoming traffic than a diffused light, because, even with the best will in the world, sometimes people don't get the brights off quick enough. and diffused lights are nicer for those moments. it means the oncoming drivers eyes can readjust more quickly. which is a nice thing, I think.


    So, basically, you can have a completely legal set of lights that will show you all the road you'll ever need to see, and that are friendly to other road users, without issues. no problem.

    there is nothing wrong with the law on lights. it's not thumbsucked.

    In some countries, yes, you can have more lights (that aren't road legal|) on the roof etc, provided they are covered when the vehicle is on the road. so no, that light bar on the roof of the show jeep at the SEMA show can't be used on the road. has to be switched off / isolated and covered.

    Southern Africa, like Europe , does not allow other lights to be fitted at all. Sure, this might be a thing for you if you are road building across the amazon in the evenings, but I think for most people it's not really much if a hardship.

    and before the old chestnut that 'this is Africa, not Europe' pops up, yes, it is, but not all of Europe is London. you are probably more likely to see a feral pig (which get properly big in Europe) or buck making a dash across a road in Europe that anywhere in SA.

    if you are seriously worried about buck and want some lights above the windscreen, you do have the option of outline lights on the roof, which should be yellow or white, per the regs - this because they are more visible, not because some arbitrary person decided to impose a rule for the sake of it....

    the ECE laws are abided to by most countries, and yes, SA is a signatory to those rules. we are in fact country 47 , and if an item that complies with the regs is manufactured here , it will have E47 or e47 on it. If it says E1 or e1 it was made in Germany etc. here is the wiki entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...le_Regulations

    If you have a set of non complaint lights - you are an anti social chop (this is the polite version) - there is NO reason not to have a legal, socially acceptable set of lights on your vehicle that are safe to other road users as well as yourself, and offer 300m of good visibility while still allowing you night vision. Having the non-legal options is simply sticking your middle finger up to other road users - seemingly there are a lot of people with this attitude on the forum these days. Sure, you can get away with it for a while and whine that you are being picked on by the police when you do get bust. but hey, Zuma is also getting away with it, and whining about being caught, not so?

    Saying that 'the law makes me unsafe' is nonsense - there are plenty of more than adequate legal lighting options.

    here is a perfectly legal lighting set up:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    surely that's adequate? Are people saying that this set up would not give them adequate lighting? I've been in one of these, and believe me, that is a LOT of light.




    a further note on LED lights and globes - please do be careful spending money on these. The light output and color is limited by the regulations. if it's legal and complies and carries the E mark, it still can't be significantly brighter or whiter than an incandescent. It's a lot of money for what can only really be a Placebo. try and test a set before committing.... and do check for the E mark. there are LED lamps that are legal, but most on the market aren't

    if there is no E mark on the lamp itself and on the globe, it's not legal. CE mark, TUV mark, none of the others mean it's legal for road use. Only an E or e mark.

    and yes, people are getting pulled off for illegal lights and globes, and they are being made to remove them, and pay fines, and are having the license disc removed, and having to put the vehicle through roadworthy to get the disc back. no disc... no insurance etc etc.

    apparently, this is happening even more in Namibia and Bots than here. and it's because people are fitting cheap light bars and behaving badly with them.

  5. #44
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaydee View Post
    You need a case of Bells!

    ....I could actually see further than 10 meters....
    Thats just a bit further than I can see with my Defenders original lights from 1998, on high beam! (slight exaggeration)

    Can anyone recommend a complete standard type E certified head lamp for a Defender? that will allow me to see further than 10m.

    Incidentally, cars older than 4 years in Europe need to go for RW every year, not just if/when they're sold. One point that is properly checked is the focus of your headlights, not just that they work. Do they ever check the focus of lights in SA when doing RW? I have been blinded plenty times by some 6 sided container with his lights on dim, at least one was illuminating the moon, and I'm not sure what he could see with the other.

    If you drive between the UK and mainland Europe there are extra diffusers you temporarily attach to your lights, to point them in the other direction.
    Last edited by Naes-Landy; 2017/10/10 at 08:50 PM.
    A sure sign of intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has bothered contacting us.

  6. #45
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    There should be an addendum to the light law that allows you to fit additional lights, that do not comply with the current laws, provided:

    * You can prove you are a Tappit.
    * You can prove your eyesight is so poor the standard lights are inadequate. #
    * You are a Chop.
    * You are inconsiderate
    * You sign a disclaimer saying you won't sue when a guy like me pulls you out your car & beats you for blinding them.

    For all others, the law should apply...




    # If you meet this requirement your license should be suspended.
    Last edited by Mad Manny; 2017/10/10 at 08:41 PM.

  7. #46
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    I think the last page sums it up well...

  8. #47
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Naes-Landy View Post

    Can anyone recommend a complete standard type E certified head lamp for a Defender? that will allow me to see further than 10m.
    I hear the WIPACs are good. I made do with standard 7" reflectors and a set of decent aftermarket halogen globes plus a pair of reasonable Hella spots with 100w globes with relays for both systems. I could see 500m down the farm road. That was more than decent for me.
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  9. #48
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    Just in response to Apoc about the pupils.

    Your pupils react very quickly. The blinding is due to another biological feature

    Read here : https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...t-to-darkness/

  10. #49
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    "here is a perfectly legal lighting set up:

    "

    Ummm surely a maximum of 6 lights in total (3 on each half of the front) is legal?

    Your pic has 8.
    Jakes Louw
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  11. #50
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    It is easy to tell someone to go do the 'legal' thing or stay within the law if you know what the rules and regulations are.
    But the first post from the OP shows that not everyone knows what the rules & regulations are, and reading those regulations one quickly realize that even fewer people will understand them (myself included), heck, not even the authorities or roadworthy centers agree on how to interpret the rules.

    So my 1981 Datsun with faded reflectors, badly designed lights and sandblasted lenses does not provide my aging eyes enough light at night, I go to the nearest shop (the only one next to the dirt road selling lights) for a pair of spots, but this shop sell what they want so the spots does not carry the 'E' mark, but I don't know this rule exists so I buy them.

    I think the first line of defense for this type of thing is to make it illegal to sell these lights in the first place.

    Regarding the 6-lights story, I can make an argument based on the regulations that only 4 lights are allowed, not six.....but I will quickly be proven wrong (or probably to be a dumb ass who can't read)

    And wrt the light on the rally car, I think the output of one of those lights is way more than what the regulations allow for normal road use.
    Neil

  12. #51
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post
    "here is a perfectly legal lighting set up:

    "

    Ummm surely a maximum of 6 lights in total (3 on each half of the front) is legal?

    Your pic has 8.

    1 pair of Dipped beams.
    1 pair of Main beams
    1 pair of Additional Main beams
    1 pair of fog lamps

    Provided they are all properly adjusted and positioned, and have E marks on the lamps and the globes, that is a 100% legal set up on any vehicle.

  13. #52
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    1 pair of Dipped beams.
    1 pair of Main beams
    1 pair of Additional Main beams
    1 pair of fog lamps

    Provided they are all properly adjusted and positioned, and have E marks on the lamps and the globes, that is a 100% legal set up on any vehicle.
    I don't read it that way.

    https://www.arrivealive.co.za/Lighti...es-of-the-Road
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  14. #53
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by neoT View Post
    1) So my 1981 Datsun with faded reflectors, badly designed lights and sandblasted lenses does not provide my aging eyes enough light at night, I go to the nearest shop (the only one next to the dirt road selling lights) for a pair of spots, but this shop sell what they want so the spots does not carry the 'E' mark, but I don't know this rule exists so I buy them.

    2) I think the first line of defense for this type of thing is to make it illegal to sell these lights in the first place.

    3) Regarding the 6-lights story, I can make an argument based on the regulations that only 4 lights are allowed, not six.....but I will quickly be proven wrong (or probably to be a dumb ass who can't read)

    4) And wrt the light on the rally car, I think the output of one of those lights is way more than what the regulations allow for normal road use.
    1) 7" lights are available new from Hella. In fact, you can pretty much buy new lights for most vehicles going back before 1981.

    2) So now you want a team of hundreds of thousands of inspectors to go and inspect every single spares shop in South Africa, and to police every single internet shopping site in the world?

    3) It's at least 6, and maybe 8 if Apoc can support his theory by quoting the relevant part of the regulations

    4) Again, we'd need to check the regulations, but as far as I've read 55W per light is legal
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by jelo View Post

    the actual full regs are available on line. definitely a better source than arrive confused.

    1 pair of lamps which emit a dipped beam per the regs (reg 159 and 161 have the details)
    1 pair of lamps which emit a main beam per the regs (reg 159 and 160 )
    1 pair of lamps which emit an additional main beam per the regs (reg 159 and 160)
    1 pair of fog lamps per the regs (screen shots below) (reg 163)

    If you have a single unit pair of head lamps that comprise both the dip and bright lamp (per section 159 ) then that pair counts as the first 2 pairs.

    most rally cars disable the brights mode on the OEM lamp, or remove it completely if it's a separate unit like the Audi S1 Quattro, and fit a separate pair of main beam lamps - which is totally legal.
    plus, facing the front the other lights not considered a head lamp or fog lamp and which have a different set of ECE regs to adhere to - indicators, park lamps, running lamps if fitted, end outline lamps if fitted and marker lamps if fitted , PLUS ANY OTHER LAMP HOMOLOGATED BY THE MANUFACTURER. so, yes, the lights on the roof rack of a camel trophy or G4 Land Rover, X Trail, Jeep JK conservation edition are also completely legal.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Apocalypse; 2017/10/11 at 12:29 PM.

  16. #55
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    Thanks Apoc

    is there any restriction on the wattage/output of a fog lamp?
    Jakes Louw
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    us law abiding citizens "stretching the law for safety" will be targeted
    IMHO this is the single biggest problem in South Africa (not only on our roads)
    South Africans from #1 to #55,000,000 are willing and happy to BREAK the law and then find reasons to justify it.
    Stay Safe
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  19. #57
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    Apoc this subject comes up every month. And every month we go through the NRTA again to get the relevant sections.

    Maybe Dirk can make a Sticky with this info regarding lights?
    Jakes Louw
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  20. #58
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Disco-Deon View Post
    IMHO this is the single biggest problem in South Africa (not only on our roads)
    South Africans from #1 to #55,000,000 are willing and happy to BREAK the law and then find reasons to justify it.
    It must be noted my spots are legal

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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Manny View Post
    There should be an addendum to the light law that allows you to fit additional lights, that do not comply with the current laws, provided:

    * You can prove you are a Tappit.
    * You can prove your eyesight is so poor the standard lights are inadequate. #
    * You are a Chop.
    * You are inconsiderate
    * You sign a disclaimer saying you won't sue when a guy like me pulls you out your car & beats you for blinding them.

    For all others, the law should apply...




    # If you meet this requirement your license should be suspended.
    This must also go for the idiot in his Hilux that has had a leveling spacer kit fitted, and then never realised that his headlights are now shining very much higher than usual...
    And then still does not realise that he is blinding everyone even when they all flash him. He will however bright them back furiously to show that he is on dims..

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  23. #60
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    Default Re: I am told this is illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by MariusFourie View Post
    It must be noted my spots are legal
    You mean additional driving lights. Spots are not legal

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