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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    This is very well done!!! Hope you get loads of business.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    Great stuff.
    Maybe speak to tuff stuff regarding options for contract work.
    Pieter

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    Discovery 3 is about 2.7T unloaded.

    With all accessories and loaded for overloading, is the trailer:

    1 Strong enough:
    2 Will one braked axle be enough:
    Always think: Could this be sarcasm?

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    What size wheels are on the trailer
    Isuzu STD 2.5d 2x4 rear diffy lock
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  5. #45
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by hunter26 View Post
    What size wheels are on the trailer
    Laag as moontlik. Ground clearance 270mm. Op 14" rims, 310mm
    Always think: Could this be sarcasm?

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    just saw this thread. I'm horrified.

    a few observations....

    I presume that the axles, rims and tires are suitably rated for the application. To be honest, 4 stud golf 1 PCD and light road tires don't seem strong enough to me for a 3000kg load, plus say 500kg for the trailer itself. but presumably you've specced them and the axles correctly.

    However, even presuming that is in order....

    As far as I recall a Land Cruiser troopie has a towing rating of 1500kg - might be wrong on that count, but hopefully it's correctly rated for the trailer (i.e. 3500kg or so)

    Either way, the law requires that any trailer with a GVM (or actual load) greater than the Tare of the drawing vehicle must have a service brake fitted (i.e. linked to the towing vehicle's brakes, an overrun brake is NOT good enough)

    I actually don't know what the deal is on how many axles need to be braked in terms of the SANS regs for high speed trailers (over 40km/h) , but on the face of it I would suggest that braking one of 3 axels with a skinny overrun drum brake only is woefully inadequate for the loads you've indicated you'll be carrying.

    Indeed, the brakes are rated with the axle, so unless thats a 3500kg axle, they are not adequate.

    I cannot see that this trailer is remotely legal or even safe for use as you've described.

    offering a professional service means you'll need a pdp for that rig and should be carrying some serious public liability insurance in the event of loss. Offering a professional service exposes you to all kinds of additional requirements.

    using equipment like that - which appears to be wholly illegal and unsafe - to carry on business with is opening a huge can of worms criminally and civilly.

    Feel free to correct me if I've got any of the above wrong - I'd actually far rather be wrong than know that this thing is going to hit the roads in the state it seems to be going to.


    If you get pulled over you'll be taken off the road for overloading, and impounded until the load is removed and carted away legally, , as well as receive enormous fines. A few years back a friend of mine used my trailer on an under rated tow vehicle and the penalty was over R4000 as I recall (it's on the forum somewhere), and it was nothing like the overload you are proposing.

    but thats not really an issue, illegal is one thing, unsafe is another. If/When that thing gets out of control and destroys it's load and the tow vehicle there is no way in hell any insurer is going to pay out for the Troopie or the trailer if it had a 3000kg vehicle on the back, nor will they pay out for the vehicle that was on the back. Indeed, the insurer or owner of the loaded vehicle will claim the damages back from you personally.

    If someone dies as a result of an accident caused by that thing, you'll be in for culpable homicide, and I'd consider it murder. it's only a matter of time.

    I can tell you right now, there is no way I'd allow any vehicle I own to be loaded onto that trailer as it stands. I'd be very surprised if an insurer would employ you to recover vehicles on it either, they'd be exposing themselves massively.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    Holy smoke. And I thought I had a nice trailer.

    So you want to sent me to St Helena island and throw away the key.
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  8. #48
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    Henri, I am gonna give you more bad news. By the looks of it, that trailer can't carry 3 tonnes.

    Please take a photo of the springs with the ranger on it.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Henris View Post
    Holy smoke. And I thought I had a nice trailer.

    So you want to sent me to St Helena island and throw away the key.

    I seem to be all out of sugar coating just lately.... what are you hoping to hear?

    pass a weigh bridge with that trailer and a big 4x4 on it and the fine will be around R10 000 or more depending on what your paperwork for the troopie and the trailer says. I don't know what it's like up country but in the Cape that will get pulled off to be weighed every single time.

    Plus you'll pay for another truck to come and legally take the load away, and likely to have the trailer have it's disc pulled, if not the tow vehicle too.

    and seriously, are you thinking that a set of citigolf rear drums are going to take care of 3500kg on a long downhill ? that's going to end badly sooner rather than later. they might as well not be there.

    A Cruisers brakes are not up to stopping a 3500kg lump as well as its 2 ton or so self in a reasonable distance on the flat , never mind a downhill, don't kid yourself. That set of Golf drums are going to do nothing.

    As I say, when it all fails to stop and someone ends up dead, the overloading fines will be pretty insignificant. It's downright irresponsible to be running a trailer like that with a big load on it, no better than a taxi with cardboard brake pads.

    If I was you I'd have a very good look at the brakes at least on that trailer, and I'd take a look at the load ratings on those rims and tires too, you might get a surprise.

    Certainly make sure it's somewhere close to legal in terms of the NRTA before offering professional towing services - although I'm not aware of a legal braking system for that weight of trailer behind a light motor vehicle in SA.
    Last edited by Apocalypse; 2017/11/01 at 04:05 PM.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    I seem to be all out of sugar coating just lately.... what are you hoping to hear?

    pass a weigh bridge with that trailer and a big 4x4 on it and the fine will be around R10 000 or more depending on what your paperwork for the troopie and the trailer says. I don't know what it's like up country but in the Cape that will get pulled off to be weighed every single time.

    Plus you'll pay for another truck to come and legally take the load away, and likely to have the trailer have it's disc pulled, if not the tow vehicle too.

    and seriously, are you thinking that a set of citigolf rear drums are going to take care of 3500kg on a long downhill ? that's going to end badly sooner rather than later. they might as well not be there.

    A Cruisers brakes are not up to stopping a 3500kg lump as well as its 2 ton or so self in a reasonable distance on the flat , never mind a downhill, don't kid yourself. That set of Golf drums are going to do nothing.

    As I say, when it all fails to stop and someone ends up dead, the overloading fines will be pretty insignificant. It's downright irresponsible to be running a trailer like that with a big load on it, no better than a taxi with cardboard brake pads.

    If I was you I'd have a very good look at the brakes at least on that trailer, and I'd take a look at the load ratings on those rims and tires too, you might get a surprise.

    Certainly make sure it's somewhere close to legal in terms of the NRTA before offering professional towing services - although I'm not aware of a legal braking system for that type of trailer behind a light motor vehicle in SA.
    Would he be better off with a loadbed truck?
    Always think: Could this be sarcasm?

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    Well, that is why I talk to you guys.

    A kerb weight of 2325kg and GVM of 3300kg allows a useful payload of 975kg.

    Toyota claims a class-benchmark braked towing capacity of 3500kg, which, given the Troopie's 6800kg GCM, means it can tow 3.5 tonnes while carrying its maximum payload. Most impressive.


    From the Toyota website
    Ok. I will up the axles, as soon as I have 2 bob.

    Will keep the loads under 2,5ton.
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  12. #52
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Henris View Post
    Well, that is why I talk to you guys.



    Ok. I will up the axles, as soon as I have 2 bob.

    Will keep the loads under 2,5ton.

    check the GCM the troopie is registered / homologated for in SA - on your paper work. you can pull it at the testing station. Looks,like this.:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    and what the Trailer is registered for as GVM as well. Which can't be more than the total of the ratings of the axles or the tyres either.

    Either way the brakes are woefully inadequate - illegal doesn't matter as much as being safe for use. I have 2x 3 ton braked axles on my big trailer and with 2tons on, it doesn't stop easily and get they good and hot on a long downhill. they are at least twice the diameter and twice the width of those small drums.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    I agree with Apoc re the tyres, axles and brakes.

    Without seeing detailed pictures, I have some other concerns strength wise - the A-frame should not have a kink between the towball and the hinge in front of the wheels - this is a weak spot with no cross stiffener at the kink.

    Also, most weight of your load is carried by the centre I-Beams. This is supported by your springs on located on your outer channels. The transfer is via square tubing or angle iron (can't see properly on the pics) welded to the web of the I-Beams. This is not ideal, and I would have welded tapered sections in the spring/axle section from flange to flange across the whole width. Ideally your springs should be attached to the I-Beam for strength, but then you will definitely have to look at the strength of your axles.

    BTW, a comment re "So if it wants to flex, let it. Don't try and keep it rigid. That is when the fatigue sets in and it snaps." Careful with this statement - more flex means higher stresses, and these alternating stresses will definitely bring fatigue into the equation.


  14. #54
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    In the week I hauled a tractor from just outside Greylingstad, to Klerksdorp.

    Can't be happier.
    Tyres stayed cool.
    Bearings stayed cool.
    No hopping when empty.
    Extremely stable behind the car.
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  15. #55
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    Went to the testing station and the Troopie is registered to tow 4,105kg.

    Next step is to re-register the trailer to reflect the 3rd axle. Apparently nothing major.
    LC 78 Troopie 1HD-FTE
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  16. #56
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    Lent the trailer to my stepson. Ran like a champion. 300km loaded. 700km unloaded.

    (Has an old school 350 Chevy in)
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    Last edited by Henris; 2017/12/25 at 10:35 AM.
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  17. #57
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    Nice job

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    Well woth the time and effort Henris, great job
    Audi A6 Avant Quattro V6 tdi ( Sold )
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    2 x Toyota Celica Gen. 5 ( Sold ) not missed as much as the above.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Upgrade my car carrier

    Quote Originally Posted by Henris View Post
    Calling on the clever guys.

    What if I up the spring tension on the centre axle and also up the wheel size.

    When it is empty, it will run on 1 axle. Braking will also be better on that axle.

    When loaded, that axle and wheel will carry more, but the tyres and the axle is designed for more.
    Will also make it friendlier to push around by hand, when parking it.
    Not a good idea Henri...You are going to end up with a lot of flat spots on the front and rear axles.....Our roads are not "level" enough....unless you completely remove the wheels on those axles ....too much of a hazzle plus extra spare wheel....

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pieter B View Post
    Not a good idea Henri...You are going to end up with a lot of flat spots on the front and rear axles.....Our roads are not "level" enough....unless you completely remove the wheels on those axles ....too much of a hazzle plus extra spare wheel....
    I have given this a rethink. I will do this once I have air springs on the trailer.
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