Power Upgrades?





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  1. #1
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    Default Power Upgrades?

    Anyone here who did some power mods on their 300 DTeq KB6?

    Specifically downpipe, decat and bigger exhaust? I'm already rather surprised how big of an exhaust comes standard with the bakkie.

    Then I'm also toying with the idea to have the ECU remapped for some extra torque... the stock 380Nm is a bit sluggish for a heavy car like this...

    Any thoughs, comments, experiences out there?

    Thanks!
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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    Seems like everyone is keeping their 300 DTeq standard?
    Off-road: '14 Isuzu KB300 4x4
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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    ​Ek het my 2.5 triton laat remap, n groot verskil in krag en ratsgeit, sal dit definitief aanbeveel.

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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    This might be opening a new can of worms and I'm sure it has been debated to death all over this and other forums. But the bottom line is that manufacturers (who has more knowledge, resources, equipment) spend a lot of time and money to strike the balance between power, economy and reliability in their mapping. If you remap for more power, you will sacrifice on one or both of the other two. No manufacturer will give you i.e. 10kw/20nm less, if they could have given it within acceptable economy and reliability. Modern engines are optimized to the max already.

    Sure, the "green" factor (emissions, etc.) also plays a role, but for that you will need to remove/replace certain components (the downpipe, decat and exhaust you are referring to), but be very careful not to influence any sensors etc. Many ECU's will go into a "default" map if they detect faulty sensors, that may result in a reduction of power and increased consumption.

    Myself: maybe I'm getting old or something, but I have never found myself thinking my KB6 needs more power. Not on the open road, not when towing, not in the veld. Besides, I kind of like the way the engine doesn't mind pulling from virtually idling speed

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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    I'm waiting for my bonus in September then taking my vehicle to Port Elizabeth at EFI Evolution to do the full Monty, 76mm exhaust, remap and snorkel.. I read on the new D-Max forum Australia has got the same 3.0D-Teq engine and they received a new 6-Speed box with an extra 50nm torque (430nm). Even if I can only get that 50 extra torque I will be happy as well, but the 300 D-tea is no race horse, my fiancÚ 2.2 ford runs circles around me.

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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kleintjie View Post
    ...the new D-Max forum Australia has got the same 3.0D-Teq engine and they received a new 6-Speed box with an extra 50nm torque (430nm).
    What are the chances that local dealers would flash this remap to our cars ;-)

    And I'm very interested to hear what difference you'll feel with the bigger exhaust!
    Last edited by guido.e.koch; 2017/06/29 at 09:36 AM.
    Off-road: '14 Isuzu KB300 4x4
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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kambro View Post
    This might be opening a new can of worms and I'm sure it has been debated to death all over this and other forums. But the bottom line is that manufacturers (who has more knowledge, resources, equipment) spend a lot of time and money to strike the balance between power, economy and reliability in their mapping. If you remap for more power, you will sacrifice on one or both of the other two. No manufacturer will give you i.e. 10kw/20nm less, if they could have given it within acceptable economy and reliability. Modern engines are optimized to the max already.

    Sure, the "green" factor (emissions, etc.) also plays a role, but for that you will need to remove/replace certain components (the downpipe, decat and exhaust you are referring to), but be very careful not to influence any sensors etc. Many ECU's will go into a "default" map if they detect faulty sensors, that may result in a reduction of power and increased consumption.

    Myself: maybe I'm getting old or something, but I have never found myself thinking my KB6 needs more power. Not on the open road, not when towing, not in the veld. Besides, I kind of like the way the engine doesn't mind pulling from virtually idling speed
    Not quite. The problem with a production line which is what all our cars come off, is that a map was made for one engine, and applied to all engines. Every single engine is different, even though its the same engine. When doing the chip which enables you to redo mapping, you can the tune specifically for your engine. Its not about outright performance. Its about getting better efficiency. There is plenty of room for improvement for a standard vehicle. The intercooler can be improved as the standard one has some flow restriction. Slightly bigger exhaust, bigger downpipe.

    They do focus more on emission for some or other reason. the ozone story is a load of hogwash.
    2003 KB 300 TDI 4x4
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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    Quote Originally Posted by guido.e.koch View Post
    Anyone here who did some power mods on their 300 DTeq KB6?

    Specifically downpipe, decat and bigger exhaust? I'm already rather surprised how big of an exhaust comes standard with the bakkie.

    Then I'm also toying with the idea to have the ECU remapped for some extra torque... the stock 380Nm is a bit sluggish for a heavy car like this...

    Any thoughs, comments, experiences out there?

    Thanks!
    I would go with the usual as you mentioned. Downpipe, full exhaust, a snorkel helps as well to feed fresh air. Also look at an upgraded intercooler, to finish it off do the chip to get it mapped nicely. Unichip seems to be the way to go.

    Intercooler doesnt have to be bigger, or much bigger, just needs to have good flow.
    2003 KB 300 TDI 4x4
    2006 Audi A4 3l TDI
    2013 KTM 450 SXF

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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty Harry101 View Post
    Not quite. The problem with a production line which is what all our cars come off, is that a map was made for one engine, and applied to all engines. Every single engine is different, even though its the same engine. When doing the chip which enables you to redo mapping, you can the tune specifically for your engine. Its not about outright performance. Its about getting better efficiency. There is plenty of room for improvement for a standard vehicle. The intercooler can be improved as the standard one has some flow restriction. Slightly bigger exhaust, bigger downpipe.

    They do focus more on emission for some or other reason. the ozone story is a load of hogwash.
    Not true for new vehicles. If every engine is different then there is something wrong in production. Each and every engine component is subject to quality inspection to within 0.0001 tolerances and if it is not within that tolerance it will be scrapped.
    Yes after 50,000km+ some engines will be different by 1-2kW mainly due to carbon build-up and other factors like service intervals, oil used, fuel used, climate etc.

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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kambro View Post
    This might be opening a new can of worms and I'm sure it has been debated to death all over this and other forums. But the bottom line is that manufacturers (who has more knowledge, resources, equipment) spend a lot of time and money to strike the balance between power, economy and reliability in their mapping. If you remap for more power, you will sacrifice on one or both of the other two. No manufacturer will give you i.e. 10kw/20nm less, if they could have given it within acceptable economy and reliability. Modern engines are optimized to the max already.

    Sure, the "green" factor (emissions, etc.) also plays a role, but for that you will need to remove/replace certain components (the downpipe, decat and exhaust you are referring to), but be very careful not to influence any sensors etc. Many ECU's will go into a "default" map if they detect faulty sensors, that may result in a reduction of power and increased consumption.

    Myself: maybe I'm getting old or something, but I have never found myself thinking my KB6 needs more power. Not on the open road, not when towing, not in the veld. Besides, I kind of like the way the engine doesn't mind pulling from virtually idling speed
    Hi Kambro

    Not quite. Engines are not even close to their limits. The way they are designed is with a Factor Of Safety of 2+ on all important engine components. They manufacturers have to cater for every tom dick and harry who will start his vehicle in -10░ Sutherland weather, towing a 3ton trailer, and flooring it up a 30░ incline mountain early in the morning with oil pressure and viscosity not even at 10% of what it should be. Or the petrol drivers who converted to diesel drivers but still drives it like a petrol in 35░ Pretoria heat. Or the 18 year old guy who just got his licence with testicals swollen to 3bar who guns it from robot to robot, then arrives home with the exhaust manifold glowing red, and just switches it off to get to missus. And the list of difficult situations is just endless. So the manufacturer has to have that Factor of Safety otherwise for the 5th blown turbo the manufacturer will be bashed even though it was not their fault. And believe me, after every remap I drive with the client to ensure everything is 100% and I see how 90% of people drive, you wont believe it. So then my lecture starts.

    Take care of the vehicle and it will take care of you. I've driven 210,000km of remapped vehicles of different brands with not a days problem.
    1. Let the vehicle idle for a minute every morning, or drive it below 2,000rpm until it is at normal operating temp. (the temp guage is the water temp. Once the water hits 90░ the oil is still at 60░ so give it another minute or so for the oil.) Then you can start gunning it.
    2. If it is a hot day outside (35░+), then dont dice all 5 of your tjommies for bragging rights. Just dice 1. The other can come the next day.
    3. If you are towing, dont floor it for extended periods of time.
    4. Idle 30sec before you switch off, every time. (Yes I know modern engines have a battery driven oil pump for the turbo, but why take a chance).
    5. Service regularly, and even more regularly for high mileage vehicles.

    Even for non mapped vehicles, if you follow these principles you should get a decent life out of your engine.

    Ask any guy who has remapped, if he will ever drive another vehicle without it being remapped. It is just so much nicer to drive. And remember you're not going to do 1/4 mile or track racing with your 4x4, it is merely extra power for overtaking etc.

    Regards

  15. #11
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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    I have to disagree to an extent.

    In older motors their was a generous safety margin built in.

    As the demands for more and more power and efficiency have escalated, so has the manufacturers need to dig deeper and deeper into their safety margins to meet those requests.

    So what the chip/remap tuner was stealing from the margins years ago, the OEM's are now digging into themselves, leaving less and less margin for aftermarket tuners to work with safely.

    The OEM however has the advantage of pushing the boundaries AND building in the relevant safety parachutes in sensors and software.
    Cheers

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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    Quote Originally Posted by guido.e.koch View Post
    Anyone here who did some power mods on their 300 DTeq KB6?

    Specifically downpipe, decat and bigger exhaust? I'm already rather surprised how big of an exhaust comes standard with the bakkie.

    Then I'm also toying with the idea to have the ECU remapped for some extra torque... the stock 380Nm is a bit sluggish for a heavy car like this...

    Any thoughs, comments, experiences out there?

    Thanks!
    I will always recommend a decat/dpf on any vehicle as it only keeps a dam of heat towards the turbo side. Another very good mod is an intercooler, heat is your enemy, although you wont see any gains, it counts a lot for reliability. Other than that only a remap. With low revving diesels the airflow is not really enough for a full exhaust to make a recognisable difference. Ask most guys with bakkies who have done it if it was worth it. Most will say no.
    We offer a Stage 1 remap if the vehicle is standard. That will see an increase of 25kW and 60Nm.
    After you have done a decat we can load Stage 1+ which will see another 5-10kW and 20Nm.

    Regards

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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    I have to disagree to an extent.

    In older motors their was a generous safety margin built in.

    As the demands for more and more power and efficiency have escalated, so has the manufacturers need to dig deeper and deeper into their safety margins to meet those requests.

    So what the chip/remap tuner was stealing from the margins years ago, the OEM's are now digging into themselves, leaving less and less margin for aftermarket tuners to work with safely.

    The OEM however has the advantage of pushing the boundaries AND building in the relevant safety parachutes in sensors and software.
    So you are saying technology has stayed the same, they've only dug deeper into safety margins?
    If anything it will be the other way around. With old technology it was so difficult to get more power that they actually came closer to the safety margins to meet their targets. With modern direct injection, cam timing, composite material etc technology its much easier to reach their targets without compromising on reliability thus the safety margins will be more. And thats how you will find Golf GTi's doing the 1/4 mile in 10.9sec's, breakfast runs at 300km/h making 100kW more than standard and during the week being used as a daily driver with 100,000+km on the clock. (Have many friends to prove this)

    To give an example we have done 1,800x 2.2/3.2/3.0 Rangers/BT50's which is generally regarded as a not so reliable engine, and havent had any engine problems. (the early models had turbo problems with or without remaps). And that is 1800 only with us, the there are many many more tuning houses who will have done a lot more.

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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    I did a chip on my previous kb250 d-teq, massive difference and thats why I would rechip or actually remap this time round.. Yes I believe the exhaust doesn't make the biggest difference but helps a bit at least. The better intercooler is also what I'm interested in, I see there is one available from torque tune that I gues is imported, but expensive... Like I said even that extra 50nm from Australia will help me and would be more than enough, I don't want the strongest or fatest bakkie just to get my old power back before my mods.. And I had drive rustig so my fuel consumption on my 250 d-teq was about 1-1.5km more per liter

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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    Deleted in the interest of fairness.
    Last edited by Fluffy; 2017/06/29 at 05:16 PM.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
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    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kleintjie View Post
    I'm waiting for my bonus in September then taking my vehicle to Port Elizabeth at EFI Evolution to do the full Monty, 76mm exhaust, remap and snorkel.. I read on the new D-Max forum Australia has got the same 3.0D-Teq engine and they received a new 6-Speed box with an extra 50nm torque (430nm). Even if I can only get that 50 extra torque I will be happy as well, but the 300 D-tea is no race horse, my fiancÚ 2.2 ford runs circles around me.
    If you want to mess up your car take it to EFI Evolution , come and see what they did with my Landrover then you will know what I am talking about , pm me for more info.
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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    Deleted
    Last edited by LucasATM; 2017/06/30 at 11:01 AM.

  22. #18
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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    Deleted in the interest of fairness.
    Last edited by Fluffy; 2017/06/29 at 05:16 PM.
    Cheers

    ZS5KAD
    3 V8's
    NA TwinTurbo SuperCharger
    A V6 and an inline 4

    The frogs are starting to notice that the water is getting warm but it is already too hot to do anything about it.....

  23. #19
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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    These new diesels have alot of oomf compared to the old. I would only consider small upgrades to make it work less/more efficient.

    Snorkel/cold air intake
    Free flow - quicker spooling turbo.
    EGR + DPF delete.

    but only if it does not void warantee.

    m2cW

  24. #20
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    Default Re: Power Upgrades?

    Maybe I should start with those first and see how it pulls afterwards. How do you you remove the EGR-software or physically block it off/remove it?

    Is DPF same as CAT? Will a full free flow not sort that out?

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