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  1. #1
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    Default Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    http://desertlion.info/news.html

    Good news are that quite a number of cubs are being born recently and the population is growing again.

    Bad news that due to social media criticism, Flip Stander has decided not to further update on the details of the conservation effort on this web site.

    One wonders what is going on .....
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  3. #2
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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    That is sad news as I for one not being a local really like this type of effort.

    There is far too much criticism instead of encouragement on this site from time to time.

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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Who criticise what?
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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Always two sides to a story I guess, and quite a few of them going around the last few weeks. Although I have been seeing updates recently.
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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Maybe some people think they have sole rights. Why do I get the feeling the locals there feel they are excluded. Every Tom Dick, and Harry with a keyboard decides for them.
    Last edited by JLK; 2017/03/09 at 07:26 PM.
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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari Safari View Post
    http://desertlion.info/news.html

    Good news are that quite a number of cubs are being born recently and the population is growing again.

    Bad news that due to social media criticism, Flip Stander has decided not to further update on the details of the conservation effort on this web site.

    One wonders what is going on .....
    Social media however was a major driving force for collecting money for his project and vehicle. Sometimes one has to take the good with the bad, and instead of stop updates rather formulate a policy on how to deal with critics. There will always be people who criticize projects like these, sometimes from an informed viewpoint, but unfortunately many times not.

    The answer is not to run away from it and close up, but rather to deal with it. This project (if I understand correctly) is very dependent on donations for funding, and stopping the updates is one sure way to stop that too. Out of sight, out of mind.

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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    What is the story please? Why all the innuendo?
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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Quote Originally Posted by OwenD View Post
    What is the story please? Why all the innuendo?
    Ditto.

    Not that I know very much of the project ( although I have followed since most of the Kings were wiped out last year)-
    it was fantastic to read of the recent developments, and I cannot imagine how such a project could have its wings clipped by a bit of 'Twar'-?

    It is clearly a very well run and focused research/tracking programme from a layman's view, and I applaud the efforts I have seen so far.

    Hope it all works out for the Desert Lions!
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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Quote Originally Posted by OwenD View Post
    What is the story please? Why all the innuendo?
    Unfortunately there is not much details in the write-up, only what the web site states.

    Quote Originally Posted by [COLOR=#000000
    The Desert Lion Project and the information posted on this website has become the target of an increasingly calculated and vindictive onslaught by a single party on some social media platforms. [/COLOR]
    I agree with Dirk, that putting the head in the sand will kill the funding of which the project is based on.

    I hoped to trigger some more insight of the "criticism" which has lead to the lid being put on.

    Let's hope we get some more detailed insight over time, I will try also to gather some more info.
    Last edited by Kalahari Safari; 2017/03/12 at 03:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Quote Originally Posted by OwenD View Post
    What is the story please? Why all the innuendo?
    This is all that is known.

    24 - 31 Jan 2017. Week 4 - Notice. The Desert Lion Project and the information posted on this website has become the target of an increasingly calculated and vindictive onslaught by a single party on some social media platforms. The Desert Lion Project is therefore sad to announce that it has become necessary to stop all further NEWS updates to the website until further notice. We apologise to all the supporters of the Desert lion population, the surrounding local communities and the general public at large.

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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari Safari View Post
    Unfortunately there is not much details n the write-up, only what the web site states.

    I agree with Dirk, that putting the head in the sand will kill the funding of which the project is based on.

    I hoped to trigger some more insight of the "criticism" which has lead to the lid being put on.

    Let's hope we get some more detailed insight over time, I will try also to gather some more info.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirk View Post
    This is all that is known.
    I see, thanks chaps. I agree that effective social engagement is imperative to conservation efforts.
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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Quote Originally Posted by OwenD View Post
    I see, thanks chaps. I agree that effective social engagement is imperative to conservation efforts.
    'Social engagement'----?

    Are you referring to on-the-ground social engagement , or to social media engagement----or to both?
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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Quote Originally Posted by OwenD View Post
    What is the story please? Why all the innuendo?
    I dont know the full story but Dr Phillip Stander got a lot of flack from a facebook
    site called Inki Bushbabies . They felt he was not doing enough and would not co-operate
    with them . Eventually it got so heated facebook shut that site . Now Ingrid Mandt ( Inki Bushbabies ) operates
    desert lion support initiatives from her own facebook page .

    Dr Stander chose to stop updates on his desertlion.info as he felt his information was being used to undermine the project .
    I think this was a massive mistake as the site was responsible for raising the profile of the project and getting it
    out there on the forums.

    I dont think Ingrid Mandt should be fingered as the bad person or be the subject of similar
    social media attack . I believe all this heat is indicative of the passion that people have
    for conservation plus the negative arm chair side effects that come from social media access .

    I understand a bone of contention was who gets access to operate in the skeleton coast national park.
    Well that has nothing to do with the Desert Lion Project and i am all in favour of the rigour that the
    authorities apply with research permits .

    I also think there are things that the DLP is not good at and one of them is compensating farmers affected by
    lion attacks . The truth of the matter is that the farmers see no value whatsoever in having lions around . Until
    they get some form of compensation i dont believe they will change their ways . Compensation is hugely fraught but if Ingrid
    Mandt can do that successfully then all credit is due to her .

    One thing i dont understand is how people fighting the same battle will turn on one another . The cause is weakened
    when it never needed to be .

    regards,

    Martin

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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalahari Safari View Post
    http://desertlion.info/news.html

    Good news are that quite a number of cubs are being born recently and the population is growing again.

    Bad news that due to social media criticism, Flip Stander has decided not to further update on the details of the conservation effort on this web site.

    One wonders what is going on .....
    Is it not due to the demand of lion bones in the Far East?

  19. #15
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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Quote Originally Posted by Roberto Betta View Post
    Is it not due to the demand of lion bones in the Far East?

    I doubt that these lions are specifically a target of the lion-bone/skin/whatever trade-they are too few and too remote-(and too monitored by the project)-to fall to this.

    I do imagine it may have to do with conflict with the local residents/herders.
    "The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence."

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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick L View Post
    'Social engagement'----?

    Are you referring to on-the-ground social engagement , or to social media engagement----or to both?
    Absolutely both. People on the ground need to be heard and conflicts mitigated. The potential for education, raising awareness and cultivating a respect of wildlife, conservation and research in a global audience shouldn't be dismissed. Especially considering the power that a global community can have over rapid paradigm shifts and fundraising.

    Ultimately you would like both to feel some sense of ownership of the cause.
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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Quote Originally Posted by OwenD View Post
    Absolutely both. People on the ground need to be heard and conflicts mitigated. The potential for education, raising awareness and cultivating a respect of wildlife, conservation and research in a global audience shouldn't be dismissed. Especially considering the power that a global community can have over rapid paradigm shifts and fundraising.

    Ultimately you would like both to feel some sense of ownership of the cause.
    Entirely! - Dr.OwenD - I concur!8)

    Also- briefly checking out Ingrid Mandt references, she seems to steer a project/agenda for the lions too-but from a perspective as you outline above-a more community oriented and charged (conservation/eradication?) approach -where I now surmise that the Desert Lion Project is primarily scientifically and conservationally oriented.-?

    It will be interesting to see this develop....
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  23. #18
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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Quote Originally Posted by MartinClem View Post
    I dont know the full story but Dr Phillip Stander got a lot of flack from a facebook
    site called Inki Bushbabies . They felt he was not doing enough and would not co-operate
    with them . Eventually it got so heated facebook shut that site . Now Ingrid Mandt ( Inki Bushbabies ) operates
    desert lion support initiatives from her own facebook page .

    Dr Stander chose to stop updates on his desertlion.info as he felt his information was being used to undermine the project .
    I think this was a massive mistake as the site was responsible for raising the profile of the project and getting it
    out there on the forums.

    I dont think Ingrid Mandt should be fingered as the bad person or be the subject of similar
    social media attack . I believe all this heat is indicative of the passion that people have
    for conservation plus the negative arm chair side effects that come from social media access .

    I understand a bone of contention was who gets access to operate in the skeleton coast national park.
    Well that has nothing to do with the Desert Lion Project and i am all in favour of the rigour that the
    authorities apply with research permits .

    I also think there are things that the DLP is not good at and one of them is compensating farmers affected by
    lion attacks . The truth of the matter is that the farmers see no value whatsoever in having lions around . Until
    they get some form of compensation i dont believe they will change their ways . Compensation is hugely fraught but if Ingrid
    Mandt can do that successfully then all credit is due to her .

    One thing i dont understand is how people fighting the same battle will turn on one another . The cause is weakened
    when it never needed to be .

    regards,

    Martin

    Thanks Martin for this info,

    I am actually following Inky Bushbabies FB blog and have NOT found any contradictory statement which would justify a blank out on Flip's DLP updates.
    Lots of info is shared and copied across from DLP web page, so I guess it is a case of false pride or misunderstood egos which is not sorted out.

    On the other hand, I don't think a "compensation" for farmers affected by the presence of lions should be handled or suggested by DLP.
    DLP is a research entity and entirely informative, albeit measures being taken by Dr Flip Stander to try avoidance of such conflicts by influencing the lion's behaviour or shy them off if they stroll to close to human settlements. The problem with this is, it would need constant presence and info where next the semi nomadic tribes are heading and settling for a season. Tis is almost impossible without more patrols which in itself would compromise the effect of the project by trailing the lions to closely.

    But if Ingrid Mandt would link into the activities and create the missing link - support, inform and orientate the local population - it would add value to the cause.

    I think this side need attention, only way to coordinate would be through the authorities.
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  24. #19
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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick L View Post
    'Social engagement'----?

    Are you referring to on-the-ground social engagement , or to social media engagement----or to both?
    Trust me to manage that you need to have at least one full time employed person skilled in exactly that.

    And no offence, but I think the interest as well as skill of a person focused on research and conservation, falls outside that. Not to mention his/her available time.
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  25. #20
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    Default Re: Desert Lion Project - Good and bad new

    Quote Originally Posted by OwenD View Post
    Absolutely both. People on the ground need to be heard and conflicts mitigated. The potential for education, raising awareness and cultivating a respect of wildlife, conservation and research in a global audience shouldn't be dismissed. Especially considering the power that a global community can have over rapid paradigm shifts and fundraising.

    Ultimately you would like both to feel some sense of ownership of the cause.

    Agree completely, now how to bring that across?

    I guess the need for a concerted approach should be seen by NW authorities to set up a coordination effort, but this might be wishful thinking.
    If we try to understand th basic needs of the local (nomadic) population being access to water and grazing grounds, it becomes clear that the effort should be started from there.
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