Hardtail or Full suspension, Carbon or Alu - Page 4





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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Hardtail or Full suspension, Carbon or Alu

    Quote Originally Posted by NvN View Post
    Just to give my opinion on the dual sus / hardtail, carbon / alu question:

    It depends on what your build is, and also the type of terrain you ride mostly and lastly your competitive levels.

    1.) Your build

    If you are on the heavier side, a carbon dual suspension will be a good choice. Be aware though, and this is the reason why I excluded an alu frame, if you are on the heavier side, stand up during descents on rough terrain! People on dualies tend to stay seated when descending due to the additional damping of the rear. This eliminates the shock absorbing effects your legs bring (not to mention the added stability) and will induce higher loads on your frame.

    Carbon duelies will also work for your more competitive, lighter weight marathon / stage race cyclists. If you are light weight and seek to do half marathons, go for hardtail alu or carbon depending on you budget.

    2.) Terrain

    Keeping in mind the weight considerations mentioned above, if you do rougher terrain (rocky descents, corrugated gravel etc.) riding, a dual suspension is for you. Riding good condition gravel mostly? Hardtail is perfect, although I do think that a dual suspension will be more comfortable in marathon / stage races. Carbon / alu? See point above.

    3.) Competitive levels

    This is a bit of a debatable point, as the correct answer will be to have both. Dual sus for the harder / technical stuff, and hardtail for your faster races. Still need to choose one? If you are a competitve racer, go for the carbon hard tail, it is cheaper to maintain (assuming you are training a lot) and gives you the edge when climbing or sprinting to the finish line. Rougher descents and corrugated gravel will slow you down though (see point 2)

    This is my criteria when giving advice on the subject.

    O only changed to a carbon dualy end of last year (from a 26" GT alu hard tail) and I must say it really makes a difference in your longer rides. (I am fairly light weight, so an alu frame would also have worked).
    I don't see why rider weight will affect frame material? Big okes can ride ali too.
    Having ridden steel, ali and carbon over the years, I'm back to ali bikes, and I'd love to change my hardtail frame to a steel one soon (current HT frame is ali, and cracked ) and make it a singlespeed again.

    I think it is simple.

    You choose carbon because you want to save 300-500gram on the frame.
    You get hard Carbon frames and compliant carbon. The difference is in the layup of the carbon.

    You choose ali because you want to save money.

    If you want a marathon bike, choose a marathon bike. A 100mm travel fullsus is ideal. You Ride trails, choose a trail Bike (120-140mm travel fullsus,) enduro, we'll go for an 150mm travel enduro bike. Race XCO or schools lap racing, hardtail is ideal. Want something simple that can do anything, then get a hardtail as well. What you sacrifice in comfort of that back shock you gain in fun when caning it in the twisties. Gooi singlespeed for added back to basics simplicity and fun.

    Frame material will be a function of your budget and chosen brands availability.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Hardtail or Full suspension, Carbon or Alu

    Quote Originally Posted by PhlippieV View Post
    I don't see why rider weight will affect frame material? Big okes can ride ali too.
    Having ridden steel, ali and carbon over the years, I'm back to ali bikes, and I'd love to change my hardtail frame to a steel one soon (current HT frame is ali, and cracked ) and make it a singlespeed again.


    Frame material will be a function of your budget and chosen brands availability.

    Firstly I do not want to get into a 'weight' debate here, for the record, there are lots of guys heavier than me who crosses the finish line first

    I have seen many guys in all shapes and sizes on carbon duallies, but some lessons are only learnt through experience.

    Also, I do not know why your frame cracked, but you may have just proved my point. Alu frames usually crack on the welds due to sustained fatigue. Obviously heavier guys induce higher loads on their frames, especially going downhill seated.
    If your budget only allows for an alu frame, go hardtail instead, you will be forced to stand up during the rough stuff.

    I did not mention steel as it is OT, but yes steel frames are a lot more durable and a good alternative to Alu.

    Due to the endless pursuit of shaving weight of a bike, the alu frames keep on getting thinner and the welding more often than not is sub par.

    Carbon frames also break, but is more often than not the result of a nasty fall or when mishandled.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Hardtail or Full suspension, Carbon or Alu

    Quote Originally Posted by PhlippieV View Post

    If you want a marathon bike, choose a marathon bike. A 100mm travel fullsus is ideal. You Ride trails, choose a trail Bike (120-140mm travel fullsus,) enduro, we'll go for an 150mm travel enduro bike. Race XCO or schools lap racing, hardtail is ideal. Want something simple that can do anything, then get a hardtail as well. What you sacrifice in comfort of that back shock you gain in fun when caning it in the twisties. Gooi singlespeed for added back to basics simplicity and fun.
    Best bit of advice on this thread. It all depends on the type of riding you plan to do.

    Except the last sentence. That's just for masochists.
    Niel
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  4. #64
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    Default Re: Hardtail or Full suspension, Carbon or Alu

    Quote Originally Posted by NvN View Post
    Firstly I do not want to get into a 'weight' debate here, for the record, there are lots of guys heavier than me who crosses the finish line first

    I have seen many guys in all shapes and sizes on carbon duallies, but some lessons are only learnt through experience.

    Also, I do not know why your frame cracked, but you may have just proved my point. Alu frames usually crack on the welds due to sustained fatigue. Obviously heavier guys induce higher loads on their frames, especially going downhill seated.

    *my frame cracked underneath the seatpost clamp. Most likely due to the seatpost insertion not being enough to handle the leverage of my high saddle. Frame is borderline small for me, but XL wasnt available. I'm an aggressive rider, and use a dropper seatpost. The bikes death came on flat roads and climbs.

    If your budget only allows for an alu frame, go hardtail instead, you will be forced to stand up during the rough stuff.

    *I disagree, rather an ali fullsus than a carbon HT. Unless you're a weight weenie, a masochist or serious about xco racing (then you're probably a sadomasochistic weight weenie anyway.)
    You should be out of the saddle anyway on rough stuff, whether riding a FS or HT.

    I did not mention steel as it is OT, but yes steel frames are a lot more durable and a good alternative to Alu.

    *I'm keen on steel for its ride characteristics and nostalgia value, I started mtb racing on a steel HT 18 years ago. And steel bikes are cool.

    Due to the endless pursuit of shaving weight of a bike, the alu frames keep on getting thinner and the welding more often than not is sub par.

    *definitely true. But this affects carbon as well. A mate of mine is on his fourth carbon anthem. All of them cracked vertically on the seatpost tube behind the shock. It's a design flaw due and Giant just keeps on replacing frames. Another mate cracked two carbon Scott sparks (not from crashes), but his ali Merida 96 is still going strong.

    Carbon frames also break, but is more often than not the result of a nasty fall or when mishandled

    *totally agree. If you ride like me, impact damage is more likely to kill a carbon frame than stress. I have two gauge marks on my Trance that would have killed a carbon frame.

    .
    I don't agree with all your viewpoints, but we probably both have enough anecdotal to support our viewpoints.

    It took me 5years to break an Ali giant XTC frame (Fatigue - chains yay)
    My carbon BMC FS01 didn't last 3years (dropouts wore out- terrible design)
    My Dartmoor Primal hardtail lasted two years (seatpost too short - my fault)
    My Merida HFS ali hardtail is 6years old, and has taken over from the Dartmoor as my SS. Solid frame, but a dinosaur, hoping to replace this with a modern steel frame.
    My giant Trance (ali) is my darling. Nearly three years old, Pivot bearings replaced once, takes everything I can throw at it from Enduro races to three day stage races and just keeps on keeping on. The Ezel Enduro is on the upper end of it's talent, but hopefully the massive fork I've put on it will make up for its travel at the back.

    I ride hard, and don't really spare any of my bikes, I've launched the plastic bmc and Dartmoor off road gaps.

    But I do reckon that choosing a bike according to purpose will lead to longevity. ie a racing bike for racing, trail for trails etc. I won't throw a modern racing bike like an Anthem, Epic or a Spark down Helderberg like I do the other bikes, it just won't be fair.

    I'll admit that my bmc was an outlier, I did everything with that bike, it served as my intro to Enduro, and in the end the QR axle wore out the dropout. If it had an ali interface bonded into the carbon it would have been fine, but weight saving practice trumped logic.

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Hardtail or Full suspension, Carbon or Alu

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  6. #66
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    Default Re: Hardtail or Full suspension, Carbon or Alu

    Quote Originally Posted by Musashi View Post
    For a 6 year old, yes, Bloemendal is perfect. The pump track is good to learn on and after that B spot.

    The best coffee though is at Dairy Shed on the Contermanskloof farm. And best omelettes. And croissants. And best trails for all levels. Unless you go right to the top, it's a more gradual climb than Dorstberg.

    Let me know when you want to take on Contermans and circumstances allows it. I'll be happy to show you the trails.
    THANX

    Went there this morning, Maritz came with.

    Went up "half-way". to the point where the black route turns up and the other route starts coming down. Down to the entrance of the farm, around the dam and up the vineyard (enjoy the way the steep sections are broken by the more level bits). We then took the by-pass back to the Shed. Maritz LOVED the strawberry milkshake. Then we did that little downhill section behind the barn .. twice.


    Certainly a NICE route, and venue !

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Hardtail or Full suspension, Carbon or Alu

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisF View Post
    THANX

    Went there this morning, Maritz came with.

    Went up "half-way". to the point where the black route turns up and the other route starts coming down. Down to the entrance of the farm, around the dam and up the vineyard (enjoy the way the steep sections are broken by the more level bits). We then took the by-pass back to the Shed. Maritz LOVED the strawberry milkshake. Then we did that little downhill section behind the barn .. twice.


    Certainly a NICE route, and venue !
    I'm glad you both enjoyed it!
    Niel
    2012 BMW F800GS
    2010 Nissan Navara 2.5 dCi 4x4
    2015 Bush Lapa Miskruier (B503)

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Hardtail or Full suspension, Carbon or Alu

    Quote Originally Posted by NvN View Post
    People on dualies tend to stay seated when descending due to the additional damping of the rear. This eliminates the shock absorbing effects your legs bring (not to mention the added stability) and will induce higher loads on your frame.
    I don't see this on technical terrain often but when I do I am so tempted to slap the stupid out of them.
    It's not just about stress on the frame the loss of control this adds is huge.

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